I got Duped!

[Thisjk38]

So I bid on this knife thinking I was getting a broken Swiss champ. I could tell from the pic that the scissors were broken, toothpick and tweezers were missing, and the magnifying glass had its lens missing. I was fine with that because I wanted to use it for my first mod attempt, and I had no plans for those specific tools. When I received it I noticed instantly it was a bootleg sak, with Victorinox scales pressed/glued on.

The description and title don’t use Victorinox, just says Swiss Army Knife. From these pictures, can you guys tell it’s not a Vic, and that I just screwed up? Or would any of you fallen for you it too? I suspect now that the seller took strategic photos, because you can’t see the knife stamp that just says “stainless”, or the back tools that obviously aren’t vic’s.

It’s a $16 lesson for me, so not much of a loss. I did message the seller, and will be leaving negative feedback if he doesn’t try to correct it. Since it only says Swiss Army knife in the ad, do you think I can still argue that it’s not one, since technically it is Victorinox that officially supplies Swiss Army knives?
I’ve seen other auctions that say “Swiss Army knife style” for these junk knives. I don’t care all too much about getting my money back, I just hate feeling cheated so I want to do something about this.... the last photo, I took, and it was not in the ad.








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[Lynn LeFey]

Please, raise living hell on ebay about this. It's someone who is obviously commiting fraud, and won't stop until someone shuts him down.

You might just feel like a fool for falling for it, but it's not YOU being the scumbag. Demand a refund. See if you can get ebay to shut the guy down.

Because, remember, it's not just going to be YOU this guy screws.

Yes, I have opinions on such matters. They involve tar and feathers.

[captain spaulding]

The pliers are a dead giveaway for me but I could see how it will fool people. Seems the seller knows what they are doing.

[jazzbass]

Yeah, I can see instantly that it's a fake. It's all kinda wrong, but the tang stamp is a dead giveaway. The price should also make you suspicious. Personally, I wouldn't be too pissed at the seller. They never said "Victorinox" and they showed lots of pictures. "Swiss Army Knife" is sorta a trademark, but 99% of the world who are not on this forum call any red knife with lots of tools a "Swiss Army Knife". It's a concept that's been genericized like "Kleenex". BTW - the actual trademarks are "Original Swiss Army Knife" for Victorinox  and "Genuine Swiss Army Knife" for Wenger.

Ask nicely if you can return it. Most likely the seller will say yes. It's easier to take a return than to deal with negative feedback. Don't need to go into accusations of fraud or anything like that - most likely this is just some random seller that got a red knife in a box of crap from an estate sale, dumped it on eBay for $15 with a simple description that matches what most non-knife people would call it.

[Thunderpants]

The lack of the word Victorinox and the shiny metal magnifying glass frame are gigantic clues.
It's your mistake, really. No point in going ballistic about it - the seller played by the rules.
Nevertheless it must be galling to know you paid good money for a second-hand, defective turd!

edit: having said that, the pictures are deliberately misleading, so it should be possible to get your money back.

[Doc1911]

I hope you reach a satisfactory resolution, but Ebay couldn't care less about fraudulent listings as long as they get their cut.  I saw a guy list a cheap Chinese copy of the Spanish Aitor copy of the SAK and claim it was a Victorinox Huntsman.  I reported it twice to Ebay and they did absolutely nothing. I called out the seller and he was a douche.

So I bid on this knife thinking I was getting a broken Swiss champ. I could tell from the pic that the scissors were broken, toothpick and tweezers were missing, and the magnifying glass had its lens missing. I was fine with that because I wanted to use it for my first mod attempt, and I had no plans for those specific tools. When I received it I noticed instantly it was a bootleg sak, with Victorinox scales pressed/glued on.

[Aloha]

I have some spare parts you are welcome to.  Tomorrow I'll post them up here and you decided what you want and I'll send them out.

[Thisjk38]

I have some spare parts you are welcome to.  Tomorrow I'll post them up here and you decided what you want and I'll send them out.

Thanks I'll keep my eye out for it.

Like I said it's a lesson learned. I did email him about it. Besides the issue of the scales I included that the listing states there is only one missing/broken tool, when there are actually 4. So the description was wrong, and hopefully I am protected by ebay's policy. The price didnt throw me off too much. I lost an auction earlier in the week on a champion with a bent saw, and missing scissor spring that went for $19. So this being in worse condition I wasn't alarmed. Had it been a perfect tool then I would have been worried. I've seen plenty of listings with wrong titles or Victorinox labeled as Wenger, or vise versa, and with just swiss army knife. I see now the magnifying glass is a dead giveaway, but what did I miss about the pliers. I can't tell from the picture how it is a fake.

[Thisjk38]

I just want to be clear, the last picture of the tang stamp, I took it. I just included it for reference. The seller only put up the two shots of the knife from the logo side. Had the tang stamp been included, I would have stayed clear.

[zoidberg]

I see now the magnifying glass is a dead giveaway, but what did I miss about the pliers. I can't tell from the picture how it is a fake.

They are too thin. Another thing is the liners, they all look the same, sak liners usually vary.   

[LJUSMC]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

If I gave a red handled knife with a lot of blades and screwdrivers to my father and he put it on eBay, I guarantee he would call it a “Swiss Army knife,” with absolutely no idea of its legitimacy, and i highly doubt the thought has ever crossed his mind that one would ever be counterfeit.


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[T14]

Seems like a fraud attempt to me... but one should be cordial (if unapologetic) towards the seller regardless.
-T

[Reinier]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

I don't think it matters. He still sold an item with a Victorinox shield & cross although it was a piece of crap (no, I don't think those are original Victorinox scales).

[LJUSMC]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

I don't think it matters. He still sold an item with a Victorinox shield & cross although it was a piece of crap (no, I don't think those are original Victorinox scales).

Except it does matter. Several of you are ready to form a lynch mob for some guy who may be a victim himself.


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[Reinier]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

I don't think it matters. He still sold an item with a Victorinox shield & cross although it was a piece of crap (no, I don't think those are original Victorinox scales).

Except it does matter. Several of you are ready to form a lynch mob for some guy who may be a victim himself.

Lynch mob? I never said anything like that. If he is a victim himself, he should try to get his money back from whomever he bought in in the first place.

Selling counterfeit items is not allowed, regardless of the seller knowing about it or not.

[LJUSMC]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

I don't think it matters. He still sold an item with a Victorinox shield & cross although it was a piece of crap (no, I don't think those are original Victorinox scales).

Except it does matter. Several of you are ready to form a lynch mob for some guy who may be a victim himself.

Lynch mob? I never said anything like that. If he is a victim himself, he should try to get his money back from whomever he bought in in the first place.

Selling counterfeit items is not allowed, regardless of the seller knowing about it or not.

Well I don’t disagree there.


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[Thunderpants]

I don't think it's an innocent mistake.

Nobody uses that strange camera angle, ever, unless they are trying to hide something!

Edti - on ebay I often see alox Pioneers in beautiful colours, photographed ever so carefully so that you cannot see the shop logo on the back. Obviously Victorinox alox with no third party logo is the most cherished so some sellers go to great lengths to let you think that's what you're getting. They deceive without actually telling an explicit lie.

[MaverickMCS]

I am not an expert, but the knife does have some "red alerts" to its authenticity.
-
My opinion is that both parts have a smal blame on the matter; You for assuming that "swiss army knife" must mean Vic/Wenger and not recognizing the tells on the pics, and the seller for selling a counterfeit item, knowingly or not.
I would check other items the seller has for sale, and past sales to see if it's someone versed in knives or if it's someone that never delt with one, and from there I would choose how to act next, either by learning my lesson and moving on, or going for the seller's throat...

[toolbox]

it is obviously not a vic.. so it is yourr own fault 

[toolbox]

and for the price given it is stupid to be a smurfhole about it... seller just didnt know what he sold and u didnt know what u bought

[Wspeed]

I don't think I would of noticed 
But this is a good topic as I will be more aware
From now on especially the way people describe the item 

[LJUSMC]

Obviously Victorinox alox with no third party logo is the most cherished so some sellers go to great lengths to let you think that's what you're getting. They deceive without actually telling an explicit lie.

See, that’s what I’m talking about. I had no idea that unmarked Alox knives were more desirable than marked ones. I’d be the guy who happened to take a picture not showing the mark and then get blasted as if I knew what i was doing.

Yes, there are people out there who are shady, but there are also people that just don’t know what they have.


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[Wspeed]

I am learning something new everyday on this forum 

[glenfiddich1983]

Obviously Victorinox alox with no third party logo is the most cherished so some sellers go to great lengths to let you think that's what you're getting. They deceive without actually telling an explicit lie.

See, that’s what I’m talking about. I had no idea that unmarked Alox knives were more desirable than marked ones. I’d be the guy who happened to take a picture not showing the mark and then get blasted as if I knew what i was doing.

Yes, there are people out there who are shady, but there are also people that just don’t know what they have.


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And those are the people we should redirect to this great forum, so they can learn! 

[cody6268]

The good thing is that you learned that it isn't an actual SAK.  I'd keep the knife, as to show others what isn't a real SAK. Even Vic does for this reason.  I have a few I had as a kid that I retain for this same purpose, although most of mine are the old 1990s dark red, and those with the fake Aitor shield.

[pfrsantos]

The pliers are a dead giveaway for me but I could see how it will fool people. Seems the seller knows what they are doing.

Yup, too thin. Also the scaler tip is wrong.

 

[pfrsantos]

Yeah, I can see instantly that it's a fake. It's all kinda wrong, but the tang stamp is a dead giveaway. The price should also make you suspicious. Personally, I wouldn't be too pissed at the seller. They never said "Victorinox" and they showed lots of pictures. "Swiss Army Knife" is sorta a trademark, but 99% of the world who are not on this forum call any red knife with lots of tools a "Swiss Army Knife". It's a concept that's been genericized like "Kleenex". BTW - the actual trademarks are "Original Swiss Army Knife" for Victorinox  and "Genuine Swiss Army Knife" for Wenger.

Ask nicely if you can return it. Most likely the seller will say yes. It's easier to take a return than to deal with negative feedback. Don't need to go into accusations of fraud or anything like that - most likely this is just some random seller that got a red knife in a box of crap from an estate sale, dumped it on eBay for $15 with a simple description that matches what most non-knife people would call it.

 

This...

[pfrsantos]

While i think it’s entirely possible that the seller knew what he was doing, I don’t think it’s wise to immediately jump to that conclusion. There are people that don’t know one red knife from another.

If I gave a red handled knife with a lot of blades and screwdrivers to my father and he put it on eBay, I guarantee he would call it a “Swiss Army knife,” with absolutely no idea of its legitimacy, and i highly doubt the thought has ever crossed his mind that one would ever be counterfeit.


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Your father is a horrible person!!!!

 

[pfrsantos]

Seems like a fraud attempt to me... but one should be cordial (if unapologetic) towards the seller regardless.
-T

+1

Talk first, try to solve the problem. If it doesn't work, go to next level.

[pfrsantos]

When in doubt, ask for more pics. Ask for pics of the tang stamp, of some specific tools, of the front and back scales.