Leatherman Quality Control

[gadgetman7]

Over the last two months I’ve purchased both a Leatherman Charge Plus and a Wave Plus. I had to return them both due to quality control issues. The external blades on both of them had so much play in them that it made them annoying to use. Last year I returned two Damascus Skeletons for the same thing. Has anyone else noticed these issues?

Tried to attach video but couldn’t.


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[kaput]

.30¢ From aliexpress, these do come in handy for maintenance and who knows what. Tweaking and fine tuning get etc.

 

[alexTOOL]

Buy a safety torch driver   

[kaput]

Buy a safety torch driver   

Lol, security torx, haha

[Poncho65]

I usually buy 2nd hand but when I do buy new I usually wait a while for them to fix an QC issue of course the plus models shouldn't have any issue as they only swapped the plier heads really Sorry to hear you had issue with them

[gerleatherberman]

I tend to agree with Kaput on getting a security torx set.
Since both tools have the external blades on the same pivot pin as the pliers, it is a compromise. Seems some people don't like the pliers to be tight (meaning blades are slightly loose) and some people don't want the blades to be loose (meanings pliers will be a little tight).
Although, at one time, LM did have the pivot screws adjusted perfectly and most people were happy. Maybe the people who do the QC at assembly don't know what they are doing, as they likely do not use the products they assemble.

[Aloha]

I've only bought a few new tools and while I've had some minor issues non like we've heard about.  Its really annoying to keep hearing about theses issues.  I would not want to adjust a new tool and after a while I would be incredibly hesitant to buy new. 

[gerleatherberman]

Only thing is, what is the OP comparing the blade play to? A gas station junker knife or a high end folding knife?
I don't expect my Surge and Wave blade lockup to be as good as a Spyderco or what not.

[Mechanickal]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

[kaput]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

[gadgetman7]

The blade play is in the vertical position. The tolerances are significantly off. (Yes, I have the torx drivers and have modded tools.) The lockbar doesn’t meet the lock face and/or the back of the blade doesn’t meet the frame where the frame acts as a stop pin. Regardless, Kershaw can get this right on a $25 knife. There’s no excuse for it.

BTW I wouldn’t call Spyderco high end. Chris Reeve, Todd Begg Knives, Hinderer, etc are higher end than Spyderco. But Spyderco has great fit and finish for the price.


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[gerleatherberman]

Thanks for clarifying. I have two LMs with that type of play, but it is miniscule. My first Surge and older Wave move vertically ever so slightly. Maybe 1/64th of an inch at most. I don't worry about it though, as it isn't dangerous or cosmetically problematic IMO.
BTW, a multi-tool is vastly more complex and time-consuming to produce than a folding pocket knife. Leatherman is actually very very inexpensive considering the country of manufacture and amount of implements/things that can go wrong.

[Don Pablo]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

Your argument is not quite valid to European members.

Because....



 
At that sort of money, it better be absolutely perfect!!
You wouldn’t expect a 1 million dollar car to have QC problems that you’re supposed to fix, right?

[Top-Gear-24]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

I agree with Nick, the example that he gives is a good one, buy a new car that rattles when you drive it out of the dealership the first time, go back in and hear the dealer suggest that you should buy a wrench is exactly the same as what you guys are saying to the OP.  And yes, cars need maintenance ... but we do expect them to be flawless when we drive them out of the dealership's garage for the first time, or is this not the case in the U.S. ?

I don't know where the OP lives, but over here a Wave + will set you back 149,95 Euro (ask me how I know this  ).  And for that kind of money, you shouldn't need to buy any other tools (as cheap as they may be) to adjust its minor "shortcomings" right out of the box.  My Wave + was perfect out of the box, I said the same in this topic, and I hoped this was the beginning of Leatherman dealing with the QC issues, but it looks as if I was one of the lucky ones this time ...

I respect ones brand loyalty and even ones chauvinism, I'm a Leatherman fan as well, 50% of my collection consists of Leatherman Tools, 40% Victorinox, 9% Wenger and 1% Gerber (sorry, Gerber fans ... I'm working on it  ), so yes, I also like the brand (a lot !!), but this should not cloud ones judgement to see a problem for what it is ...  I'm also a Victorinox fan, and yet I find myself making jokes about the fact that a lot of Spirits can't lie flat on a flat surface thanks to its wobbly handles (which is also why I still prefer the Swisstool over the Spirit  ).

What I'm trying to say here is don't overdo the whole fanboy thing.  Yes, in the long run it's best if you own a set of security torx drivers to keep your multitool in good shape, and once you own a set you can use them on any new multitool you buy that needs some small fixes (if you happen to buy a second multitool, believe it or not, some people actually buy only ONE multitool, weirdos  ).   But still ... this should not be the case from day one (otherwise, Leatherman should just add a set of two security torx bits in the box, along with the multitool).

Just my humble opinion, as always  .

[Top-Gear-24]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

Your argument is not quite valid to European members.

Because....
(Image removed from quote.)


 
At that sort of money, it better be absolutely perfect!!
You wouldn’t expect a 1 million dollar car to have QC problems that you’re supposed to fix, right?

They should change the slogan on that one into "Leatherman, for real life savings ..." 

[Don Pablo]

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

(if you happen to buy a second multitool, believe it or not, some people actually buy only ONE multitool, weirdos  ). 

I only have two multitools. 
And I’ve spent a total of €2 on them. 

I don’t have many more SAKs if you were wondering.   

[chrono]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

Your argument is not quite valid to European members.

Because....
(Image removed from quote.)


 
At that sort of money, it better be absolutely perfect!!
You wouldn’t expect a 1 million dollar car to have QC problems that you’re supposed to fix, right?

115 euro for a REV? HOLYsmurf 

[aikon2014]

It must be a really bad store. Even here in Sweden where they are usually really expensive the Rev is usually found for 45 euro (equivalent).

[gadgetman7]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I love Leatherman and have over 20 of them. Nothing like Chako though. I love the brand that’s why it bothers me so much.

I understand about the complexity but this tool has been out for around 20 years. They should have it right by now. I just hope they get their act together.

On a positive note, my last four Signals were perfect.


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[kaput]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

I agree with Nick, the example that he gives is a good one, buy a new car that rattles when you drive it out of the dealership the first time, go back in and hear the dealer suggest that you should buy a wrench is exactly the same as what you guys are saying to the OP.  And yes, cars need maintenance ... but we do expect them to be flawless when we drive them out of the dealership's garage for the first time, or is this not the case in the U.S. ?

I don't know where the OP lives, but over here a Wave + will set you back 149,95 Euro (ask me how I know this  ).  And for that kind of money, you shouldn't need to buy any other tools (as cheap as they may be) to adjust its minor "shortcomings" right out of the box.  My Wave + was perfect out of the box, I said the same in this topic, and I hoped this was the beginning of Leatherman dealing with the QC issues, but it looks as if I was one of the lucky ones this time ...

I respect ones brand loyalty and even ones chauvinism, I'm a Leatherman fan as well, 50% of my collection consists of Leatherman Tools, 40% Victorinox, 9% Wenger and 1% Gerber (sorry, Gerber fans ... I'm working on it  ), so yes, I also like the brand (a lot !!), but this should not cloud ones judgement to see a problem for what it is ...  I'm also a Victorinox fan, and yet I find myself making jokes about the fact that a lot of Spirits can't lie flat on a flat surface thanks to its wobbly handles (which is also why I still prefer the Swisstool over the Spirit  ).

What I'm trying to say here is don't overdo the whole fanboy thing.  Yes, in the long run it's best if you own a set of security torx drivers to keep your multitool in good shape, and once you own a set you can use them on any new multitool you buy that needs some small fixes (if you happen to buy a second multitool, believe it or not, some people actually buy only ONE multitool, weirdos  ).   But still ... this should not be the case from day one (otherwise, Leatherman should just add a set of two security torx bits in the box, along with the multitool).

Just my humble opinion, as always  .

Once again in regards to the car analogy.

1. This is still, obviously, comparing apples to sushi rolls. They aren't even both fruits! Compares apples to apples and put it in a realistic comparison here. This just isn't fair, it isn't.

2. The price you pay for cars, they are made by machines and not humans, like Leatherman! These are tools made by people on a large scale, there will be issues when they are not made by robots. Some will be perfect, some will be tighter and some will be looser.

3. You will get hardware and special tools needed to tweak high end tools and knives from the makers. I'm talking high end like Chris Reeve knives and Medford knives.


I do appreciate our opinion and value the conversation. I understand what you are saying and would hope you see my points too 

[Don Pablo]

It must be a really bad store. Even here in Sweden where they are usually really expensive the Rev is usually found for 45 euro (equivalent).

Yup, it’s a little bit inflated, but my point still stands. 

[Smashie]

Only thing is, what is the OP comparing the blade play to? A gas station junker knife or a high end folding knife?
I don't expect my Surge and Wave blade lockup to be as good as a Spyderco or what not.

At $285 I damn well do expect the charge Tti+ to lock up like a high end knife, at that price it is high end. Price is based on cheapest retail I could find in the UK and exchange rate at time of posting.

The Wave+ is $174.50, so not inexpensive by any stretch of the imagination.

[Aloha]

What gets me is the consistent inconsistencies.  Not every
 tool comes out with issues.  We've seen one guy get a tool thats perfect while another guy get one that has issues.  We see consistent issues like sharp edges on the Wave SS and file rubbing on the Charge TTi.  Sure we'll get some off grinds or one tool to the next with some plier looseness.  What gets me is they have continued to let tools out into the wild across the line with an issue here and an issue there.  While it may look like isolated issues from one tool to the next its consistent in the bigger picture.  I have had a few myself.  My NIB Crunch has plier misalignment issues.  Really noticeable and lame.  My Wave NIB had to be totally sanded on all edges because they were sharp.  However on my Surge SS and ST300 BO and my Skeletool CX they were perfect. 

Is this a case where a certain percent of tools can leave with "small" issues?  The problem as I see it if thats the case is reputation.  Over time all the small issues again and again wear on people.  I am an exclusive LM tool user.  It annoys the heck out of me because I will tend to recommend LM first since I use them.  It seems like these "small" issues can be solved rather easily.   

[gerleatherberman]

Only thing is, what is the OP comparing the blade play to? A gas station junker knife or a high end folding knife?
I don't expect my Surge and Wave blade lockup to be as good as a Spyderco or what not.

At $285 I damn well do expect the charge Tti+ to lock up like a high end knife, at that price it is high end. Price is based on cheapest retail I could find in the UK and exchange rate at time of posting.

The Wave+ is $174.50, so not inexpensive by any stretch of the imagination.

I get your point, but the Charge TTi is still far less expensive than a high end knife in its' own country of manufacture, which is the US. The shipping, transport, tariffs, duties, taxes and/or markups where you're at don't make the product more premium than what they sell in the US for less than half that price you see them for local-retail in the UK.
Anyway. A LM Charge/Wave is NOT a high end knife. It is a high-end MULTI-TOOL (many many more moving parts than any high-end knife). A little vertical play (read whole thread) isn't dangerous or uncommon for a Multi-tool. 

[aikon2014]

Speaking of QC. I took out two of my Rebars last night and one of them I was going to sharpen the knife on. The knife broke in the middle.
The second one I was using the screwdriver to tighten a screw on one of the doors, and the screwdriver chipped!
Just came home from the post office to send them in for warranty, I am sure they will replace them. However, it doesn't feel very good that two out or four total Rebars of mine had issues...

[ThePeacent]

most of us have personally attested the good warranty service and CS from Leatherman, but that also tells us a thing: most of us have had to use or reach to LM's warranty service and customer department. 

I've been happy with most of my Leathermans, the ones I have now and the ones I've had have been nice and functional for the most part, and I'm generally satisfied with them. 

Oddly enough I've had much more quality issues with cheaper (3 tools) and newer models (5 tools), than with older tools (2 of them) and/or more expensive ones (3 of them) 

[tango44]

I agree, Leatherman is having their issues, my coyote Rebar came with two large flat screwdrivers!
Cabelas never make it right and the fact that Cabelas does not have any store in FL I decide to send it back to Leatherman, but it's kind of a PIA to deal with this when you paid good dollar for a product that needs to be right out of the box...

[SteveC]

Sounds like Leatherman really needs to up their QC. It certainly is not good for their image to have so many issues especially with a newly launched tool like the plus series. 

[Top-Gear-24]

Ok, while some issues might easily be solved with a security torx driver, this shouldn't be an excuse.
When you pay premium money it should COME perfectly adjusted.

What would you say if you buy a brand new car, hear a rattling sound, and the shop owner says to just buy a wrench? You wouldn't take that from even the cheapest dealer out there.

Which company is doing that? Not Gerber or SOG, not Leatherman. Maybe Swiss tools?

Also, to your point. Cars do need maintenance, so will tools, knives, pivots, oil, loctite etc.

I agree with Nick, the example that he gives is a good one, buy a new car that rattles when you drive it out of the dealership the first time, go back in and hear the dealer suggest that you should buy a wrench is exactly the same as what you guys are saying to the OP.  And yes, cars need maintenance ... but we do expect them to be flawless when we drive them out of the dealership's garage for the first time, or is this not the case in the U.S. ?

I don't know where the OP lives, but over here a Wave + will set you back 149,95 Euro (ask me how I know this  ).  And for that kind of money, you shouldn't need to buy any other tools (as cheap as they may be) to adjust its minor "shortcomings" right out of the box.  My Wave + was perfect out of the box, I said the same in this topic, and I hoped this was the beginning of Leatherman dealing with the QC issues, but it looks as if I was one of the lucky ones this time ...

I respect ones brand loyalty and even ones chauvinism, I'm a Leatherman fan as well, 50% of my collection consists of Leatherman Tools, 40% Victorinox, 9% Wenger and 1% Gerber (sorry, Gerber fans ... I'm working on it  ), so yes, I also like the brand (a lot !!), but this should not cloud ones judgement to see a problem for what it is ...  I'm also a Victorinox fan, and yet I find myself making jokes about the fact that a lot of Spirits can't lie flat on a flat surface thanks to its wobbly handles (which is also why I still prefer the Swisstool over the Spirit  ).

What I'm trying to say here is don't overdo the whole fanboy thing.  Yes, in the long run it's best if you own a set of security torx drivers to keep your multitool in good shape, and once you own a set you can use them on any new multitool you buy that needs some small fixes (if you happen to buy a second multitool, believe it or not, some people actually buy only ONE multitool, weirdos  ).   But still ... this should not be the case from day one (otherwise, Leatherman should just add a set of two security torx bits in the box, along with the multitool).

Just my humble opinion, as always  .

Once again in regards to the car analogy.

1. This is still, obviously, comparing apples to sushi rolls. They aren't even both fruits! Compares apples to apples and put it in a realistic comparison here. This just isn't fair, it isn't.

2. The price you pay for cars, they are made by machines and not humans, like Leatherman! These are tools made by people on a large scale, there will be issues when they are not made by robots. Some will be perfect, some will be tighter and some will be looser.

3. You will get hardware and special tools needed to tweak high end tools and knives from the makers. I'm talking high end like Chris Reeve knives and Medford knives.


I do appreciate our opinion and value the conversation. I understand what you are saying and would hope you see my points too 

I see your point, but the problem is that you and I both are multitool enthusiasts, we know these minor problems happen, and we have the tools and the knowledge to fix them. 

I'll give an example, a wife buys a Wave as a gift for her husband's birthday, both of them have never owned or even held a Multitool.  At the birthday party, the presents are opened and the husband is happy with his new shiny toy, until he tries to open the inside tools only to find that they're stuck inside the handle, or he opens the pliers and two inside tools fall out the handle by themselves.  For you and me that would be an easy fix, but for someone who is new with multitools, this must be a bummer ...

And I hear what you're saying about cars being made by machines while Leathermans are made by humans, so maybe the car example was not perfect.  But what bothers me the most is the fact that Leatherman used to get it right all the time in the past, and I assume they were also hand-build back then. So what happened ?  Are there corners being cut to make more profit, are the people who assemble them only there to earn their pay, while in the past they were there to earn their pay and to deliver a premium build product ?  Is there someone pulling the strings who likes to hold conference calls, and who likes to use words like "business plan", "benchmark", "target", "cost effectiveness", "cut costs",  "downsizing", "time efficiency", "deadline", ... you get the idea right  .

And finaly, there's the price difference between the U.S. and the rest of the world.  I know this is mostly due to our greedy governments and their import taxes etc ...  But this doesn't change the fact that over here we pay about double of what you guys in the U.S. pay.  And this may be the reason why we think of these multitools as being high priced.  I'll give an example, I've been thinking about getting myself a Gerber MP600 lately, I read a lot about the MP600 here on MTO, and I've seen a lot of youtube reviews.  And most youtube reviews have one thing in common, 9 out of 10 reviewers say the MP600 is a great tool considering what it costs, great bang for the buck.  I hear prices going from $35 to $55 for an MP600, but if I want to buy one over here (that is when I find one, Gerber multitools are quite hard to find in my country.  No, we get the Bear Grylls lunch box and accessories kit  ), if I want to buy one here it will cost me between 103€ and 120€ for the exact same tool.  And I would like to have a Gerber MP600, but when I can get a BO Surge for the same price, the choice gets a lot harder (at the local shop a BO Surge will cost 199,99€, but since Leatherman is so well known around here, these can be found for around 120€ at local webshops).

I'm still a big fan of Leatherman, and I'll keep buying their tools.  But I will try to inspect them first, which means buying them at a local shop, which means paying full retail price  .  I just wish they would get back the fit and finish they had 10 years ago, since that's what I expect from a Leatherman tool, great fit and finish like on my Original Supertool, PST, or first generation Wave ...

They set a high standard for themselves in the past, and they have a reputation to uphold.  What would be worse, that in 10 years from now, we would ramble about loose tools on a new Leatherman, or that we wouldn't ramble about the loose tools on a new Leatherman anymore ... 

[aikon2014]

Btw, the rest of all of my Leatherman, about 15 of them had all been just fine, a bit of adjustment, not because there is anything wrong with them, but to be to my taste. Otherwise, no problems. And also, all the happy owners don't complaint or tend to make their voice heard, they just enjoy and use their tool/tools. So just because a few people complaint on a forum doesn't mean that they have QC problems, there are probably millions of tools every year that don't have problems. We might just be unlucky. But ofcourse, it don't HAVE to be bad luck either, there could be bad QC problems as well, just not automatically.