Multitool.org Forum
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


New US Multitool.

us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #30 on: April 08, 2018, 05:51:46 AM
Interesting.

I always thought that if something had an NSN it could be purchased by gov't agencies.

But I note that this particular item seems to always default to "Soldier Systems". Odd.

I haven't had any luck finding a database listing '1095-01-670-1865' as a viable NSN item.

A variety of agencies including some state or local ones can request it if they want any. The problem with this stuff that clogs up the NSN database is DLA, GSA, and a couple other US Gov't agencies that buy stuff to put it into US Gov't inventory haven't bought a single one of them. You could "order" one and you'd never see it. There's no procurement contract to buy any and there's no contract award that would result in a procurement contract for them. All the pieces are in place if Jerry can somehow convince Uncle Sam to issue a contract to buy a few rail car loads from him. The CAGE Code sets up how Jerry would get paid by identifying his company as a unique entity. The NSN sets up how they would be procured. How he'd fulfill an order for many thousands in a short time is another matter. It's one man and his garage (or living room, or den, or spare bedroom; take your pick).

How this really works . . .
If Uncle Sam wants multi-tools for the US Armed Forces, DLA or GSA will publish a RFP in the Federal Register that will contain all the terms, conditions and specs along with how to submit the proposal, what's required with it, how the proposals will be evaluated and items tested, and the deadline for it. Along with that, Uncle Sam will invite a number of contractors known to produce such things in that commodity to bid (such an invitation does not guarantee anything or provide any advantage). If Uncle Sam were going to buy a BS SwissTool, it would, without doubt, come directly from Victorinox to Uncle Sam specs, not a pass-through from Jerry and his one-man company operating out of his home in Pennsylvania. It would be the result of a contract award after Uncle Sam evaluated bids from at least several mult-tool manufacturers with one or more of the losers undoubtedly suing the US Government for one thing or another trying to get the contract award undone to be reevaluated. Several losers to the recent M17 pistol contract awarded to Sig Sauer sued the US Government with a variety of claims about how the evaluation of the competing pistols and contract award decision itself was flawed. This is routine just as all the losers lawsuits not getting any traction is routine. Sig Sauer got the contract and has the contract.

John
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 06:01:22 AM by jalind »
John


ph Offline an0nemus

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,717
  • I Tool Therefore I Am
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #31 on: April 08, 2018, 05:59:17 AM
Thanks for the additional info, John. Really helpful. I posted the NSN in our local SAK FB group before I read your comments, and now deleted it.


So its basically a scam by this certain Jerald.


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #32 on: April 08, 2018, 06:09:47 AM
Thanks for the additional info, John. Really helpful. I posted the NSN in our local SAK FB group before I read your comments, and now deleted it.

So its basically a scam by this certain Jerald.

Not really a scam. He's not interested in selling onesie twosie to private buyers wanting to order one from him like eBay BIN or Amazon. It's a marketing ploy. He's trying to generate interest and clamoring demand from "grass roots" in the US Armed Forces for them with supply personnel trying to order them to issue them as discretionary non-consumable expendable items using the NSN. DLA isn't going to cut a contract or put a RFP in the Federal Register for a handful just because a few supply sergeants try to get a few dozen. Period. He's going about it all the wrong ways, but that doesn't stop the dreams. If Jerry made $3 net profit on every one passing through his house and sold a hundred thousand of them, which isn't a very large number of such an item in the US Armed Forces, he'd become quite rich from it having done very little but manage the pass-through operation. Therein lies the Big Dream. Costs zero to get a CAGE code. Costs all but zero to get a NSN. That's if you do it yourself and it's not that hard if you know who to call and contact which isn't a national secret either.

Discretionary:
Every organization has a small slush fund to expend on certain kinds of low cost items it feels it needs that are not part of the TO&E (Table of Organization and Equipment - what the unit is authorized and required to have, including personnel by MOS and rank).

Consumable vs Non-consumable:
A light bulb and toilet paper and bullets and beans are all consumable as is fuel and lubricants. They are naturally consumed in use. Non-consumable is something like the multi-tool. It may eventually wear out or possibly break, but it's not inherently consumed like a case of C-rations - or MREs now. Certain consumables, such as ammunition, are inherently consumed, but you can bet your butt it's accountable by exact number of rounds outside a combat zone (and in one there are other measures used for control). Similarly, fuel is a consumable under considerable control. Mogas, the military gasoline, is dyed red and you cannot get the dye out. Diesel is similarly marked indelibly. Consumption of it is accounted for in logs when it's dispensed - to whom and how much.

Expendable vs non-expendable or accountable:
Expendable items include some hand tools or similar things that can be replaced without necessarily having to perform a formal investigation about its loss, damage or destruction. A multi-tool would usually fall into such a class as it's not costly or a sensitive item. "Usually" is important as under some circumstances, an investigation is warranted and required. Otherwise tools and such would be routinely "lost" when the real mechanism is pilferage and theft. In general, to replace a tool you need to produce the one that was damaged or broken or have a damned good story about what happened to the one you had, one that passes multiple BS detectors. Senior NCOs have magnificent ones and by the time I was promoted to captain mine was quite excellent. Non-expendable items are on property books and must be accounted for. Loss, damage or destruction of non-expendables and especially accountable items is always investigated.

John
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 07:56:37 AM by jalind »
John


gb Offline tosh

  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 3,109
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #33 on: April 08, 2018, 09:18:44 AM
I've not read the whole thread, but seriously how can anyone believe these are US made when clearly they are Vic Soldier and Swiss-tool, I can't imagine Vic releasing the rights and patents nor can I believe them sitting idle whilst someone creates clones. Is it that the US army has switched from Gerber to Vic, in which case the thread title is a little misleading to say the least.

In reference to the above post stating Mogas  is dyed red and impossible to get out, sounds a little bit like Red diesel used in this country which is tax exempt. It's supposedly only used in off road machinery or farm tractors, but I once heard a certain fertiliser (forget the name) would remove the red if the diesel was filtered through it!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:47:30 AM by tosh »
I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


wales Offline hiraethus

  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *
    • Posts: 6,965
  • I brake for cake
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #34 on: April 08, 2018, 09:42:45 AM
Maybe you should read the whole thread tosh. No-one has said they think it’s US made.


00 Offline Mechanickal

  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 14,686
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #35 on: April 08, 2018, 10:28:07 AM
It's only 33 posts before you so I'm with H here :D
Your post is somewhat of a thunderstrike at clear skies.


gb Offline tosh

  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 3,109
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #36 on: April 08, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
Sorry, you are both correct
I had literally 5 mins this morning before dashing out. I'm typing this pitch side waiting for my sons football match to begin, won't be home till later and won't be able to view MT'o until probably this evening, but suspect it will be tomorrow lunch break at work.
Oh to have a simple life with nothing to do.....
I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


00 Offline Mechanickal

  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 14,686
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #37 on: April 08, 2018, 12:27:31 PM
Would be boring

:whistle:


us Offline twiliter

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,520
  • motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #38 on: April 08, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
...In reference to the above post stating Mogas  is dyed red and impossible to get out, sounds a little bit like Red diesel used in this country which is tax exempt. It's supposedly only used in off road machinery or farm tractors, but I once heard a certain fertiliser (forget the name) would remove the red if the diesel was filtered through it!

Here too Tosh, tax exempt diesel for farming/off highway is dyed red, but there is no cost effective way to remove or dilute the dye, you might as well pay the tax for road diesel. Along with that, there are places such as highway truck scales and mobile units that test for it, as a small amount, even a half gallon in a 150 gallon tank will earn you a violation. Whether or not the taxes they recover by testing covers the cost of the actual manpower and equipment to test for violators is debatable, but the fines are steep.


es Offline ThePeacent

  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 14,599
  • Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #39 on: April 08, 2018, 04:07:25 PM
thanks for all that info John, it's really interesting and informative to read and learn how things work in the military  :salute:
the whole "made in USA" Scam, to call it something, reminds me too much of Mick Strider and his knives  :rofl:
My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #40 on: April 08, 2018, 09:01:26 PM
I should reiterate that Jerry is not trying to sell these things retail.

He's trying to become a wholesaler to the U.S. Gov't, convincing them to order these from him in enormous quantities for the U.S. Armed Forces. Given that he's one guy in his house with a day job I daresay he's not interested in selling one of these to any of us. He's not the only guy trying to do this with their latest Snake Oil for the troops either. You have to consider the number of uniformed personnel in the U.S. Armed Forces. It's well over two million. If you can sell one item that Uncle Sam decides every single one of them should have, and make a mere $1 net profit (after all costs other than taxes), you become an overnight millionaire. If you can do it with a near pass-through that requires very minimal value added (e.g. stamping a US Govt contract number, NSN, etc. on it), you make a killing in what's almost a drop-ship scheme.

There is no real deception by Jerry. Like every skilled marketer, he lets your mind fill in the blanks and gaps and what you'd like or want to believe. Many things on which this general ploy is used to try to sell something to Uncle Sam don't go noticed much. However, doing it with knives, sunglasses, pens, multi-tools and watches gets all sorts of attention from aficionados, collectors, and gear geeks, who then run off thinking that the US Armed Forces are issuing the stuff to everyone. My effort here is to show how the procurement process really works and that this kind of stuff is about someone trying to get their foot through the door to sell something, not to us, but to Uncle Sam.

Versus trying to sell something to the Dutch, Swedish or Latvian military (how many personnel and how large an annual budget?), selling something to the US Dept of Def. that would get issued to many, or better yet, every service member, has a potential market of well over two million. The risk (near zero as he has invested near zero) versus reward (into the millions) makes such ploys like this very attractive. If he doesn't sell a single one to Uncle Sam, what has he lost but a little time and the cost of a few samples. A minuscule wager with exceptionally low odds, but a gargantuan grand prize.

His stunt with the "US" marked blacked out Trekker at the 2016 AUSA annual meeting required some investment up front to create some, but the attendees there who wanted one had to buy them, as did the Special Forces Association (SFA) members that wanted one (another private organization). The AUSA annual meeting is as much if not more so an exhibitor convention with over 10,000 military and related hardware and services exhibitors for 30,000 members attending (one exhibitor for every three members in attendance says something about it). If he sold them all he got his money back out of them, and probably a tiny profit. The ploy at the AUSA convention was to get a pile of them into the hands of commissioned officers and some senior NCOs to create Big Buzz when they returned to their units afterward, showed all their buds, got seen by the enlisted troops, and hopefully generated a demand from the grass roots in the supply system using the NSN he already had assigned to it. Also showed up at one or more other conventions of folks looking to hawk their respective Snake Oil to the DoD (think SHOT Show for military hardware). Didn't work. His only interest in selling any of these "samples" was getting them into the hands of officers and NCOs who would influence demand from the US Armed Forces, not to sell them to you or me who couldn't do one whit in contributing toward that end. That the SAK and general knife collecting community went bonkers over their appearance was the collateral consequence of doing what he did, not the deliberate intent, with all manner of folks who don't know how GSA, DLA and DoD procurement works. That same collateral consequence is occurring here with his latest; substitute a SwissTool for the Trekker.

John

AUSA: Association of the United States Army
A private organization with membership dues for anyone who wants to join them and pays the dues. Nearly all of their membership is retired and currently serving active USA, USAR and National Guard officers and senior NCOs, plus some from the companies that make and sell stuff to DoD (or are trying to). The large majority of the officers are company grade (lieutenant and captain), but that's more the structure of the US Army by officer rank. There are far fewer majors compared to the number of captains alone. Uncertain how many NCOs are members. I would guess not that many, nor very many warrant officers (who are considered officers, not NCOs as in the UK and various military patterned after the UK). Warrants have their own private organization, the WOA, as do NCOs with the NCOA which covers all the Armed Forces.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:08:59 PM by jalind »
John


ph Offline an0nemus

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,717
  • I Tool Therefore I Am
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #41 on: April 09, 2018, 12:41:31 AM

Thanks, John. A real eye opener and interesting insight into the world of US military procurement.


I take back my initial impression that Jerry's scheme is a scam. He's just trying to make a fast buck, then.


ca Offline Syph007

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *
    • Posts: 9,831
  • SAK Surgeon
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #42 on: April 09, 2018, 12:53:38 AM
So no more gerber eh.. At least the swisstools are solid bit of kit.

Regarding the BO.  All my Vic BOs swisstools look splotchy.  BO treatment on stainless steel is harder to get perfect.  I have a local place that does a good job on stainless but Vic's isnt as perfect. 

What strikes me as odd is the non black rivets (at least they look it in your pic).  I wonder if they assembled in a different way and that is why some tools have play?  My BO'd swisstools have black rivets. It looks like they put something around that area too making that ring effect to protect the handles.  BO'd tools can also be grittier than stock polished ones so they could have left the rivets not as tight on purpose.... hard to say.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 12:56:07 AM by Syph007 »
PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
Facebook : SAKModder
Instagram : robertjlessard
Youtube : www.youtube.com/robertjlessard


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #43 on: April 09, 2018, 01:32:37 AM
So no more gerber eh.. At least the swisstools are solid bit of kit.

Regarding the BO.  All my Vic BOs swisstools look splotchy.  BO treatment on stainless steel is harder to get perfect.  I have a local place that does a good job on stainless but Vic's isnt as perfect. 

What strikes me as odd is the non black rivets (at least they look it in your pic).  I wonder if they assembled in a different way and that is why some tools have play?  My BO'd swisstools have black rivets. It looks like they put something around that area too making that ring effect to protect the handles.  BO'd tools can also be grittier than stock polished ones so they could have left the rivets not as tight on purpose.... hard to say.

Read back through the entire thread. Uncle Sam hasn't bought a single one of these at any time past or present, and has no plans whatsoever to buy any in the future. There's no RFP to bid on, and no contract being awarded to buy anything other than what DoD, DLA and GSA have already been buying from Leatherman and/or Gerber (don't know which they're currently buying from).

Jerry having a CAGE Code and the tool having a NSN are meaningless. I could get a CAGE Code for me personally and then a NSN for used cardboard toilet paper tubes without spending a dime to do so (also requires getting a DUNS number), and without any government contract or RFP in the Federal Register asking for bids or quotes for used cardboard toilet paper tubes, or anything remotely resembling them.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:52:19 AM by jalind »
John


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #44 on: April 09, 2018, 01:49:31 AM

Thanks, John. A real eye opener and interesting insight into the world of US military procurement.

I take back my initial impression that Jerry's scheme is a scam. He's just trying to make a fast buck, then.

Yup . . . and going about it the wrong way too. It will have the same success as his Soldier Knife did: zero.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:50:33 AM by jalind »
John


ph Offline an0nemus

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,717
  • I Tool Therefore I Am
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #45 on: April 09, 2018, 02:23:51 AM


Thanks, John. A real eye opener and interesting insight into the world of US military procurement.

I take back my initial impression that Jerry's scheme is a scam. He's just trying to make a fast buck, then.

Yup . . . and going about it the wrong way too. It will have the same success as his Soldier Knife did: zero.

John


I actually feel foolish right now as friends and I have been waiting for our Soldier Knives to arrive from a contact in the US for months. Yikes.  :-[


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #46 on: April 09, 2018, 03:29:52 AM


Thanks, John. A real eye opener and interesting insight into the world of US military procurement.

I take back my initial impression that Jerry's scheme is a scam. He's just trying to make a fast buck, then.

Yup . . . and going about it the wrong way too. It will have the same success as his Soldier Knife did: zero.

John


I actually feel foolish right now as friends and I have been waiting for our Soldier Knives to arrive from a contact in the US for months. Yikes.  :-[

If you search for the mythical soldier knife's NSN here, this is what you get:
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/1095-01-653-1166

Edit: yet another site that searches NSNs . . .
https://www.nsncenter.com/NSN/1095-01-653-1166

Shows NSN is in system but comes up blank otherwise.

Don't feel foolish. Not many know how the US Gov't buys stuff for DoD unless they've worked in or around DoD logistics at the contract level.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 03:41:43 AM by jalind »
John


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #47 on: April 09, 2018, 03:48:26 AM
Similar searches using the SwissTool's alleged NSN:

https://www.iso-group.com....aspx?ss=1095-01-670-1865

https://www.nsncenter.com...Search?q=1095-01-670-1865

Doesn't exist in either database.

Edit: the latter "nsncenter" are results using the Web FLIS (Federal Logistics Information Service) which accesses DLA and FLIS: https://www.webflis.info/Home/WebFLIS

Quote
The WebFLIS service from the Federal Logistics Information Service (FLIS) of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) is an online search system for several public segments of the USA Federal Logistics Database for codified supplies that are represented by a permanent National Stock Number (NSN).

FEDLOG comes up with same "nsncenter" results:
https://www.fedlog.info/

Just gotta know where to search for stuff like this. No big state secrets here, but few know about these sites that are readily accessible.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 03:56:14 AM by jalind »
John


us Offline tango44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 419
  • VICTORINOX
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #48 on: April 09, 2018, 05:50:19 PM
So getting back to the swisstool in question, Why does the black oxide comes with so much stains on it?
Enjoy!


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #49 on: April 09, 2018, 07:29:39 PM
So getting back to the swisstool in question, Why does the black oxide comes with so much stains on it?
I've no doubt the circles around the rivets are tooling marks from the rivets being peened, which is done by machine and obviously occurs after the individual parts are blacked out. Regarding "stains" in the black oxide, I wouldn't call them "stains" without knowing root cause. One would have to know the exact processes by which the tool is being treated for that coating, including the exact surface preparation being done beforehand. There's more than one way to skin a cat and there's more than one way to "black oxide" ferrous materials. Two general processes for stainless: hot black oxide and room temperature blackening. Post-treatment may include impregnation with oil or wax to maximize corrosion resistance, but it's not required.

Find the exact processes used and their sequence, and that should lead you to the answer after you peel back the effects of each. An inquiry with Victorinox about it would be appropriate. Edit: Some black oxide methods do not create a uniform black finish and it's not a defect. It's inherent to the method, its processes, how they're used, and the visual results afterward that are inconsequential to corrosion resistance. Until one has the exact processes used including all the controls (time, temperature, solution strengths, etc.) and the exact sequence including any waiting times between them, it would be sheer speculation to guess at what you're seeing.

I didn't realize your blacked out SwissTool was the question here as the OP was about a mythical US Gov't SwissTool for the US Armed Forces that doesn't exist.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 07:51:01 PM by jalind »
John


us Offline twiliter

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,520
  • motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #50 on: April 09, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
Similar searches using the SwissTool's alleged NSN:

https://www.iso-group.com....aspx?ss=1095-01-670-1865

https://www.nsncenter.com...Search?q=1095-01-670-1865

Doesn't exist in either database.

Edit: the latter "nsncenter" are results using the Web FLIS (Federal Logistics Information Service) which accesses DLA and FLIS: https://www.webflis.info/Home/WebFLIS

Quote
The WebFLIS service from the Federal Logistics Information Service (FLIS) of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) is an online search system for several public segments of the USA Federal Logistics Database for codified supplies that are represented by a permanent National Stock Number (NSN).

FEDLOG comes up with same "nsncenter" results:
https://www.fedlog.info/

Just gotta know where to search for stuff like this. No big state secrets here, but few know about these sites that are readily accessible.

John

Good info John, thanks.

But how to weed out the actually procured and issued ones from the rest?  :ahhh


us Offline tango44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 419
  • VICTORINOX
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #51 on: April 09, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
Enjoy!


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #52 on: April 09, 2018, 09:00:08 PM
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5110-25-147-5018

Norway? ???

(Image removed from quote.)

NSNs are used throughout NATO and they have a country code. NSN = NATO Stock Number. The system was created to unify NATO supply and logistics with a common stock number system. The first four digits (which can be broken down in two parts) are supposed to be the commodity encompassing similar or like items. That's become difficult over the years to keep completely organized (note the 1095 on the mythical one versus 5110 on this one). The fifth and sixth digits are the Country Code. "00-10" is the USA although only "00" and "01" have been used thus far. NATO Standard Items (not from any specific country) are "11" and that's rather rare. Canada is "20" and "21", and I had to look up "25". It is, indeed, Norway. The other most immediate clue that it's not USA without even getting to the NSN Country Code is the "broad arrow" in front of the NSN. The USA does not use that marking. Period (or Stop,or End Stop, take your pick). The UK and some others do, particularly in Europe and the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly called the British Commonwealth). Additional countries such as Japan and Australia, which are not part of NATO, also use the NSN system.

It appears you have a genuine Norwegian SwissTool, unless someone forged its markings.

Edit: IIRC, Australia has procured some SwissTools for their military; NSN marking if it has one, will have a "66" Country Code. The UK is "99".
Edit 2: You won't find it in FEDLOG or FLIS with anything more than a noun nomenclature because it's specific to Norway.

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 09:18:11 PM by jalind »
John


us Offline tango44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 419
  • VICTORINOX
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #53 on: April 09, 2018, 09:13:28 PM
Great info, thanks.
Enjoy!


gb Offline Fuzzbucket

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 9,585
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #54 on: April 09, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5110-25-147-5018

Norway? ???

(Image removed from quote.)

NSNs are used throughout NATO and they have a country code. NSN = NATO Stock Number. The system was created to unify supply with a common stock number system. The first four digits (which can be broken down in two parts) are supposed to be the commodity encompassing similar or like items. That's become difficult over the years to keep completely organized (note the 1095 on the mythical one versus 5110 on this one). The fifth and sixth digits are the Country Code. "00-10" is the USA although only "00" and "01" have been used thus far. NATO Standard Items (not from any specific country) are "11" and that's rather rare. Canada is "20" and "21", and I had to look up "25". It is, indeed, Norway. The other most immediate clue that it's not USA without even getting to the NSN Country Code is the "broad arrow" in front of the NSN. The USA does not use that marking. Period (or Stop,or End Stop, take your pick). The UK and some others do, particularly in Europe and the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly called the British Commonwealth). Additional countries such as Japan and Australia, which are not part of NATO, also use the system.

It appears you have a genuine Norwegian SwissTool, unless someone forged its markings.

Edit: IIRC, Australia has procured some SwissTools for their military; NSN marking if it has one, will have a "66" Country Code. The UK is "99".
Edit 2: You won't find it in FEDLOG or FLIS with anything more than a noun nomenclature because it's specific to Norway.

John

It looks like an Aussie one to me - it's got a broad arrow on it.

Edit: sorry Jalind I didn't read your post properly!  :salute:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 09:33:21 PM by Fuzzbucket »


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #55 on: April 09, 2018, 09:38:21 PM
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5110-25-147-5018

Norway? ???

(Image removed from quote.)

NSNs are used throughout NATO and they have a country code. NSN = NATO Stock Number. The system was created to unify supply with a common stock number system. The first four digits (which can be broken down in two parts) are supposed to be the commodity encompassing similar or like items. That's become difficult over the years to keep completely organized (note the 1095 on the mythical one versus 5110 on this one). The fifth and sixth digits are the Country Code. "00-10" is the USA although only "00" and "01" have been used thus far. NATO Standard Items (not from any specific country) are "11" and that's rather rare. Canada is "20" and "21", and I had to look up "25". It is, indeed, Norway. The other most immediate clue that it's not USA without even getting to the NSN Country Code is the "broad arrow" in front of the NSN. The USA does not use that marking. Period (or Stop,or End Stop, take your pick). The UK and some others do, particularly in Europe and the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly called the British Commonwealth). Additional countries such as Japan and Australia, which are not part of NATO, also use the system.

It appears you have a genuine Norwegian SwissTool, unless someone forged its markings.

Edit: IIRC, Australia has procured some SwissTools for their military; NSN marking if it has one, will have a "66" Country Code. The UK is "99".
Edit 2: You won't find it in FEDLOG or FLIS with anything more than a noun nomenclature because it's specific to Norway.

John

It looks like an Aussie one to me - it's got a broad arrow on it.

Nope, it's definitely Norwegian in origin. If it were Aussie in origin it would have a "66" Country Code. Here's a publicly available explanation of NSNs including a list of the 5th and 6th digit country codes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Stock_Number

That's not to say Australia didn't get some via their Norse friends, either from them or through them. I am extremely curious how the Australian military, if this one has a true provenance from Australia's military, ends up with Norwegian NSN multi-tools. That would, indeed, be a convoluted procurement. A Norwegian surplus sale?

John


gb Offline Fuzzbucket

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 9,585
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #56 on: April 09, 2018, 09:39:22 PM
That's a great Swisstool Tango - once you start using it and it gets a bit beat-up, it's going to look beautiful! Black oxide tools are tools that need to be used... in my opinion anyway...  :whistle:


gb Offline Fuzzbucket

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 9,585
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #57 on: April 09, 2018, 09:43:29 PM
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5110-25-147-5018

Norway? ???

(Image removed from quote.)

NSNs are used throughout NATO and they have a country code. NSN = NATO Stock Number. The system was created to unify supply with a common stock number system. The first four digits (which can be broken down in two parts) are supposed to be the commodity encompassing similar or like items. That's become difficult over the years to keep completely organized (note the 1095 on the mythical one versus 5110 on this one). The fifth and sixth digits are the Country Code. "00-10" is the USA although only "00" and "01" have been used thus far. NATO Standard Items (not from any specific country) are "11" and that's rather rare. Canada is "20" and "21", and I had to look up "25". It is, indeed, Norway. The other most immediate clue that it's not USA without even getting to the NSN Country Code is the "broad arrow" in front of the NSN. The USA does not use that marking. Period (or Stop,or End Stop, take your pick). The UK and some others do, particularly in Europe and the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly called the British Commonwealth). Additional countries such as Japan and Australia, which are not part of NATO, also use the system.

It appears you have a genuine Norwegian SwissTool, unless someone forged its markings.

Edit: IIRC, Australia has procured some SwissTools for their military; NSN marking if it has one, will have a "66" Country Code. The UK is "99".
Edit 2: You won't find it in FEDLOG or FLIS with anything more than a noun nomenclature because it's specific to Norway.

John

It looks like an Aussie one to me - it's got a broad arrow on it.

Nope, it's definitely Norwegian in origin. If it were Aussie in origin it would have a "66" Country Code. Here's a publicly available explanation of NSNs including a list of the 5th and 6th digit country codes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Stock_Number

That's not to say Australia didn't get some via their Norse friends, either from them or through them. I am extremely curious how the Australian military, if this one has a true provenance from Australia's military, ends up with Norwegian NSN multi-tools. That would, indeed, be a convoluted procurement. A Norwegian surplus sale?

John

No, you're quite right Jalind, I didn't read your post properly. :facepalm: I didn't realise that Norway used the broad arra too... I thought that was just Commonwealth.


us Offline tango44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 419
  • VICTORINOX
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #58 on: April 09, 2018, 09:45:13 PM
That's a great Swisstool Tango - once you start using it and it gets a bit beat-up, it's going to look beautiful! Black oxide tools are tools that need to be used... in my opinion anyway...  :whistle:

Sorry, just to make clear, that is not my swisstool, that is a pic that I found on the internet to use it as as example.
Mine does not have any markings at all, just the Victorinox normal logos.
Will snap a few pics of mine and will post tomorrow.
Thank you.
Enjoy!


us Offline jalind

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,670
Re: New US Multitool.
Reply #59 on: April 09, 2018, 09:57:20 PM
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/5110-25-147-5018

Norway? ???

(Image removed from quote.)

NSNs are used throughout NATO and they have a country code. NSN = NATO Stock Number. The system was created to unify supply with a common stock number system. The first four digits (which can be broken down in two parts) are supposed to be the commodity encompassing similar or like items. That's become difficult over the years to keep completely organized (note the 1095 on the mythical one versus 5110 on this one). The fifth and sixth digits are the Country Code. "00-10" is the USA although only "00" and "01" have been used thus far. NATO Standard Items (not from any specific country) are "11" and that's rather rare. Canada is "20" and "21", and I had to look up "25". It is, indeed, Norway. The other most immediate clue that it's not USA without even getting to the NSN Country Code is the "broad arrow" in front of the NSN. The USA does not use that marking. Period (or Stop,or End Stop, take your pick). The UK and some others do, particularly in Europe and the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly called the British Commonwealth). Additional countries such as Japan and Australia, which are not part of NATO, also use the system.

It appears you have a genuine Norwegian SwissTool, unless someone forged its markings.

Edit: IIRC, Australia has procured some SwissTools for their military; NSN marking if it has one, will have a "66" Country Code. The UK is "99".
Edit 2: You won't find it in FEDLOG or FLIS with anything more than a noun nomenclature because it's specific to Norway.

John

It looks like an Aussie one to me - it's got a broad arrow on it.

Nope, it's definitely Norwegian in origin. If it were Aussie in origin it would have a "66" Country Code. Here's a publicly available explanation of NSNs including a list of the 5th and 6th digit country codes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Stock_Number

That's not to say Australia didn't get some via their Norse friends, either from them or through them. I am extremely curious how the Australian military, if this one has a true provenance from Australia's military, ends up with Norwegian NSN multi-tools. That would, indeed, be a convoluted procurement. A Norwegian surplus sale?

John

No, you're quite right Jalind, I didn't read your post properly. :facepalm: I didn't realise that Norway used the broad arra too... I thought that was just Commonwealth.

It is English in origin as a mark of The Crown showing that it's property of The Crown purchased with the Crown's or monarch's money. Dates back to 15th or 16th Century. I've personally seen it most on British military equipment, as they are the Commonwealth guys I rubbed shoulders with most often in NATO along with the Canadians. I don't believe Canada uses it.They mark everything with maple leaves ;) Germany uses its Adler (eagle).

John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 09:59:52 PM by jalind »
John


 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
April Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Apr 30
Total Receipts: $122.41
PayPal Fees: $6.85
Net Balance: $115.56
Below Goal: $184.44
Site Currency: USD
39% 
April Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal