IMPORTANT THREAD RE: TSA SAFE TOOLS

[kaput]

Hope there's no Security guards on this forum, yowza 

[ironraven]

Hope there's no Security guards on this forum, yowza 

If there are, I would point out that they are part of the normalization of a police state that considers its subjects to not be citizens but property of the state, and promulgate the currently trendy notion that accusation is conviction. Their mothers should be ashamed of them, and if I ever joined their jackbooted legions my mother would be so dishonored she'd spit in my face and then disembowel me.

Hows that for "yowza"?

[ThundahBeagle]

Important book regarding what IronRaven has stated.

Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko.

It can be a socio-beaurocratic unconscious move to get better equipment, and better trained personnel. Not finger pointing. I know a lot of good officers and have worked with many of them before they were officers. Good people doing a tough job...

Folks who don't know history don't realize that the true purpose for a police officer is to bring a suspect to justice (meaning  to bring the suspect before the justice system). By definition of that purpose, that means a crime would already have been committed. We need to look after ourselves as much as possible.

But I digress.

The rediculosity of the flight carry-on requirements is that 200 people were held at bay by 4 people with box cutters. The psychology of it is that "nobody wants to be the first one" injured or killed. But 100 or 200 people with carry-on bags, shoes, belts, etc could have had those dirt bags all bundled up nice and neat, and safely landed at their destination. Perhaps some injuries. Perhaps Enron a swathe or two. Not to seem heartless, but Istead of one or two losses, or even 10, we lost thousands. We as Americans were not conditioned for this sort of thing,so the box cutters became the easy enemy.

We tend to be lazy, so rather than learn how to deal with these cowards by being brave, we are taught to cower. To bring this full circle - we think we are making things safe by outlawing an inanimate object.

I posit that one person with a Swiss Army Knife on an airplane could be more helpful than harmful. And those WITH a Swiss Army Knife are more likely to take some sort of action when needed.

[Sea Monster]

And those WITH a Swiss Army Knife are more likely to take some sort of action when needed.

As long as that action is "tighten my glasses" then you're probably right.


This is getting outside the scope of the issue, but I wonder how much it would cost to put a security guard on the plane? (s/he could double as a bathroom attendant or something and hand out warm towels when there's no one to tackle to the ground)

[Sea Monster]

Re: Action Figures-

Damn well should have action figures! Kids should get to play with toys of real heroes, not north american make believe idiots like GI Joe,

[kirk13]

Slightly off topic...

I've had a few run ins with security at Gatwick airport,although in fairness,it's been down to my own stupidity. I've had one Tinker confiscated(a fair cop,and my bad for not having checked my bag properly),and one SwissCard let through(complete with fixed blade!)...

Anyway...

I flew home last year,taking my travel guitar with me(an Aria for those who are interested). It travelled in the hold,in a hard case with no bother. However,I had a capo in my backpack...I got stopped and questioned about that,resulting in me being the last passenger arriving for the flight. I appreciate thorough security,but really? A capo?!

[dks]

They are aspiration figures for future mall ninjas

Re: Action Figures-

Damn well should have action figures! Kids should get to play with toys of real heroes, not north american make believe idiots like GI Joe,


(Image removed from quote.)

[AndyTiedye]

The rediculosity of the flight carry-on requirements is that 200 people were held at bay by 4 people with box cutters. The psychology of it is that "nobody wants to be the first one" injured or killed. But 100 or 200 people with carry-on bags, shoes, belts, etc could have had those dirt bags all bundled up nice and neat, and safely landed at their destination. Perhaps some injuries. Perhaps Enron a swathe or two. Not to seem heartless, but Istead of one or two losses, or even 10, we lost thousands. We as Americans were not conditioned for this sort of thing,so the box cutters became the easy enemy.

Prior to 9/11, hijackings nearly always ended peacefully. Heroics were strongly discouraged because cooperating was the best way to get everyone home safely (perhaps after a few days in Havana).

The passengers on 9/11 did not know their planes were going to be crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The last plane didn't crash into a building--apparently the passengers found out what had been going on.

Has there been a successful skyjacking since 9/11?

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

[ThePeacent]

Borderforce?  Seriously?

Sounds like they should have their own line of action figures.   

Def

stole my words   

[Don Pablo]

Borderforce, coming to the rescue!
A routine scanning, and then an alarm sounds....
Borderforce, coming to the rescue!

They need a transformers style cartoon.

[microbe]

The last time I flew with my Style PS I had to discuss "TSA approved and no blade" with the Heathrow security guard and his superior.  Could have swung bad, but the supervisor let me keep it.
I got lucky, but will not try again.

[dks]

If a LM employee posts a publicity photo of her in a cockpit with "TSA approved" LM tool then all companies and countries are obliged to accept it in their airplanes as carry-on....

[dks]

From the LM website:  my comments are in Bold

01. CAN I GET ON A COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT CARRYING MY LEATHERMAN TOOL?  NOTE : This question appears to apply to all countries, as no distinction is made regarding different countries, something that could be considered misleading

UPDATED January 03, 2018:
Some Leatherman products are crafted to follow TSA specifications for a carry-on item. Those products are listed below. Other Leatherman products may be stowed in checked luggage that travels in the cargo area.

The following Leatherman products comply with current TSA regulations for carry-on items:

Juice CS3
Tread
Tread LT
Tread Metric
Brewzer
Grind
Hail + Style PS
Jam
Jam
Piranha 2
Thruster
Style PS
Pump
Rail
Cam
Leatherman’s travel-friendly products are specially designed to conform to regulations for commonly restricted areas and have successfully traveled through security at airports, theme parks, government buildings, schools, sporting events, and concerts throughout the world. They have been greeted not only with acceptance, but also with genuine interest and even excitement.  Again no mention of country


Please note: Before carrying any Leatherman product on a flight or into any other restricted area, refer to the organization’s published sharp object policy for your own protection. Security agents, such as TSA representatives, have full discretion over allowable items for the safety of all passengers and international laws may vary.  A discreet mention of potential problems, realising that maybe some countries may have different requirements

Current TSA policies are posted here: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/prohibited-items. Leatherman does not warranty tools that are lost, stolen, or confiscated. I wish they did that, even if it was just for the US - that would show a strong belief/commitment in what they say

[dks]

and a classic read, the history behind the Mall Ninja label:

https://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

[Grant Lamontagne]

Slightly off topic...

I've had a few run ins with security at Gatwick airport,although in fairness,it's been down to my own stupidity. I've had one Tinker confiscated(a fair cop,and my bad for not having checked my bag properly),and one SwissCard let through(complete with fixed blade!)...

Anyway...

I flew home last year,taking my travel guitar with me(an Aria for those who are interested). It travelled in the hold,in a hard case with no bother. However,I had a capo in my backpack...I got stopped and questioned about that,resulting in me being the last passenger arriving for the flight. I appreciate thorough security,but really? A capo?!

I repeat...

I was stopped for lawful possession of candy coated chocolates.  By comparison, a capo is a weapon of mass destruction.  You could drag that over the cement a number of times and sharpen the teeth into serrations, and then use the plastic bit as a handle to flail the jagged metal about.  Assuming of course you have the same kind of capo that I use...



 

Def

[Don Pablo]

You might have tried to kill the [Insert name of someone important here]’s dog with those chocolates...

[Grant Lamontagne]

Not me. I love dogs.

Def

[Steinar]

European regulations says pliers are a no go, but small pocket knives are OK. TSA says any knife is a no go, but some pliers are OK. Have fun with international travel... 

[WoodsDuck]

From the LM website:  my comments are in Bold

01. CAN I GET ON A COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT CARRYING MY LEATHERMAN TOOL?  NOTE : This question appears to apply to all countries, as no distinction is made regarding different countries, something that could be considered misleading

UPDATED January 03, 2018:
Some Leatherman products are crafted to follow TSA specifications for a carry-on item. Those products are listed below. Other Leatherman products may be stowed in checked luggage that travels in the cargo area.

The following Leatherman products comply with current TSA regulations for carry-on items:

Juice CS3
Tread
Tread LT
Tread Metric
Brewzer
Grind
Hail + Style PS
Jam
Jam
Piranha 2
Thruster
Style PS
Pump
Rail
Cam
Leatherman’s travel-friendly products are specially designed to conform to regulations for commonly restricted areas and have successfully traveled through security at airports, theme parks, government buildings, schools, sporting events, and concerts throughout the world. They have been greeted not only with acceptance, but also with genuine interest and even excitement.  Again no mention of country


Please note: Before carrying any Leatherman product on a flight or into any other restricted area, refer to the organization’s published sharp object policy for your own protection. Security agents, such as TSA representatives, have full discretion over allowable items for the safety of all passengers and international laws may vary.  A discreet mention of potential problems, realising that maybe some countries may have different requirements

Current TSA policies are posted here: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/prohibited-items. Leatherman does not warranty tools that are lost, stolen, or confiscated. I wish they did that, even if it was just for the US - that would show a strong belief/commitment in what they say

They specify TSA from the start of the answer. That is a United States government organization.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think that's the hair that needs splitting.  TSA technically refers to the TSA in the US but also has become a generic term for airport/airline security all over the wold.

And, as the TSA the real organization is one of the most restrictive of all the various (so-called) security organizations, its generally a safe bet that if they allow it then everyone else will too.

Def

[pomsbz]

European regulations says pliers are a no go, but small pocket knives are OK. TSA says any knife is a no go, but some pliers are OK. Have fun with international travel... 

The European airports still don't allow the pocket knives despite regulations though.

[dks]

They specify TSA from the start of the answer. That is a United States government organization.

They should have just said that, very clearly- someone reading this may assume that it applies in general and not just in the US. This is the main LM site, used  by many people world wide.  I know what TSA means (due to buying many of the tools they confiscate) but it should not be expected that all will know or google it.

"Our tools are only accepted on flights from the US (we do not know if you will be able to fly back with them), depending ofcourse on how the agent feels like, also taking into account that certain airlines may perform additional checks and have different requirements"  at the beginning may help 

[dks]

European regulations says pliers are a no go, but small pocket knives are OK. TSA says any knife is a no go, but some pliers are OK. Have fun with international travel... 

The European airports still don't allow the pocket knives despite regulations though.

It depends on what you look like, your reason etc.  It is up to the police officer in charge

[Steinar]

I think dks is correct. I've travelled through several international airports in Europe with a knife. I put the knife in a tray with other small stuff (so it's not like it was overlooked over and over). IATA rules explicitly allow a small blade. But, as always, it's the feet on the ground who have the last word...

And don't assume it's OK everywhere if it's OK in the US. My earlier example with pliers not being allowed in Europe is lifted straight from the official guidelines.

[pomsbz]

European regulations says pliers are a no go, but small pocket knives are OK. TSA says any knife is a no go, but some pliers are OK. Have fun with international travel... 

The European airports still don't allow the pocket knives despite regulations though.

It depends on what you look like, your reason etc.  It is up to the police officer in charge

I'm confused, have they started allowing pocket knives on planes in Europe now despite that legislation saying it's ok? Certainly not in the UK where I was two weeks ago. They didn't even allow more than one lighter per person. Had to hand my wife my spare from my coat and it had to go in the little plastic baggy.

[dks]

True - I too have had a small multitool (cheap) confiscated in Athens about a decade ago, but in theory/legally they can let you through with it.


It will depend on how the law (which allows for flexibility) is applied

[Don Pablo]

This is one case where I wish that they followed the letter of the law.   

[Steinar]

European regulations says pliers are a no go, but small pocket knives are OK. TSA says any knife is a no go, but some pliers are OK. Have fun with international travel... 

The European airports still don't allow the pocket knives despite regulations though.

It depends on what you look like, your reason etc.  It is up to the police officer in charge

I'm confused, have they started allowing pocket knives on planes in Europe now despite that legislation saying it's ok? Certainly not in the UK where I was two weeks ago. They didn't even allow more than one lighter per person. Had to hand my wife my spare from my coat and it had to go in the little plastic baggy.

UK isn't Europe. Whitehall is quite clear on that.

I have travelled with a Vic 58 mm for years after it was once more allowed after 9/11. Countries following IATA rules allow pocket knives. The Schengen area follows IATA. UK is not part of Schengen and has in general a tendency to have stricter security controls. 91 mm Vics being on sale in Swiss airports is perfectly in line with current international regulations, but most places frown on those.

[Don Pablo]

I wouldn’t be too upset if the UK left the EU, if it meant the daily mail disappearing. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396327/Airport-security-farce-Deadlier-knives-used-9-11-sold-duty-free-taken-London-flight.html
This article is the definition of cringe worthy AND scaremongering, I think.

[Don Pablo]

Addendum:
Daily fail refers to an attempted hijacking with a SAK.
When I looked up other sources, it was a either a ”small knife” or “nail clipper” or “nail file”. 
Most likely to not be a knife, I think. 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13184416

At the very least, daily mail seems to be the only one saying SAK.