Is this the beginning of the end for self driving cars?

[Smashie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

Where does the liability stand? Software? Man behind the wheel? the programmer? or all of them

I see this stopping all testing on public highways for a long time

[Top-Gear-24]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

Where does the liability stand? Software? Man behind the wheel? the programmer? or all of them

I see this stopping all testing on public highways for a long time

Or none of them ...

Maybe the woman herself was responsible for what happened,  no disrespect, but sometimes a pedestrian can jump out in front of a car in a way that an accident can't be avoided, even with a real person behind the steering wheel.  Not saying that this was the case here, but let's be honest, how many pedestrians were killed that same day by non self-driving cars ?

I'm not saying that the victims death isn't a tragedy, so no tar and feathers for me please ...

[Smashie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

Where does the liability stand? Software? Man behind the wheel? the programmer? or all of them

I see this stopping all testing on public highways for a long time

Or none of them ...

Maybe the woman herself was responsible for what happened,  no disrespect, but sometimes a pedestrian can jump out in front of a car in a way that an accident can't be avoided, even with a real person behind the steering wheel.  Not saying that this was the case here, but let's be honest, how many pedestrians were killed that same day by non self-driving cars ?

I'm not saying that the victims death isn't a tragedy, so no tar and feathers for me please ...

True, people do stupid things, bloody hell I have. but think of the potential lawsuits here. I would love a self driving car that I could do 500 miles on a motorway and do nothing other than listen to music and relax!

[Don Pablo]

A tragedy. 
But so it is the case with every other human that was killed by a car driven by a human, today, yesterday, and the last 100 years, averaging, what? 250,000 people per year in recent times? 

[Don Pablo]

A tragedy. 
But so it is the case with every other human that was killed by a car driven by a human, today, yesterday, and the last 100 years, averaging, what? 250,000 people per year in recent times? 

Ah, sorry, it's even worse than I thought. 1.3 million deaths per year, and uncountable life-changing injuries.
http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics
I tend to take a global view of things... And these numbers are mind-numbingly saddening.

[Lynn LeFey]

I have to say, since we drive home from a friend's house most Friday nights/Saturday mornings at 1-2AM, I for one am all for self driving cars that aren't completely smurf-face drunk, texting, or both. Not to mention distracted by kids screaming in the back, so old their licence should be revoked due to failing senses and reflexes, or so young they hit the accelerator instead of the breaks, and ram into a pizza shop (which actually happened while i was IN said pizza shop).

Fledgeling tech. Needs work, but in short order, it will be a net savings of life.

[gerleatherberman]

The mortality rate of automated transport systems is a minute fraction of the mortality rate of human controlled transports.
Also, the article said she was crossing without a crosswalk. In a basic sense it was her fault. If she crossed and didn't look both ways, then it is the same as someone crossing in front of a non-automated vehicle and getting struck. Tragic? Yes. But, it was her mistake not looking both ways before crossing.
And what does a "human monitor" do in a automated car? Article says there was a monitor present. If he were driving, would he have been able to stop in time to avoid hitting someone crossing the road without looking? We'll never know.

[ThePeacent]

In my (unfounded  ) opinion she probably was just texting while crossing the road on a place where she shouldn't have been, maybe at a time and with a walking speed she shouldn't have had when trying to cross, and/or under climatic or light conditions that would have even challenged a normal human driver 

some things are inevitable, automated or not vehicles will kill people.  Drones will fall on passerby's heads if they suddenly fail, automated trains will drive over suicidal people who jump at the right moment, and assembly robot machines will crush a worker that puts his hand or head where he shouldn't, or without disconnecting the machine first   

That will happen always, nobody can blame it every time to the one killing, it sometimes is fault of the one killed (more times than not, really  )

[ironraven]

I think that the technology isn't there yet.

But as a rule, when an unfortunate verb occures, it's usually the human, not the noun, that was to blame. After all, wasn't there supposed to be a human on board monitoring it? Yes, stupid people who don't pay attention crossing the street get squashed, but I bet the safety driver was doing the same or sleeping. Two humans failed.

[Don Pablo]

I think that the technology isn't there yet.

But as a rule, when an unfortunate verb occures, it's usually the human, not the noun, that was to blame. After all, wasn't there supposed to be a human on board monitoring it? Yes, stupid people who don't pay attention crossing the street get squashed, but I bet the safety driver was doing the same or sleeping. Two humans failed.

Swiss cheese failure theory,

[hiraethus]

Victim blaming sucks, especially when it's not clear exactly what happened - or at least the major news outlets were reporting a different story to some eye witness reports.

[Top-Gear-24]

I think that the technology isn't there yet.

But as a rule, when an unfortunate verb occures, it's usually the human, not the noun, that was to blame. After all, wasn't there supposed to be a human on board monitoring it? Yes, stupid people who don't pay attention crossing the street get squashed, but I bet the safety driver was doing the same or sleeping. Two humans failed.

Not everyone who hits a pedestrian is sleeping behind the wheel, sometimes there's just not enough room/time to take evasive actions, be it by hitting the brake or changing direction, or both ...

Years ago, I was in the car with my brother (he was behind the wheel), driving very slow (about 25 km/h) because we were looking for a parking spot, when all the sudden somebody ran out on the street from between two parked cars, diving on the hood of our car.  He smacked on the ground, I jumped out of the car to see if he was okay, only to see him crawl back up, hear him mumble some drunken rambling, and then see him run away, straight into a party that was being held on the other side of the road ...

So I went back to the car, only to see that my brother needed more help than "the victim", because he was in shock from the whole event ...

My point being, even when you're paying full attention behind the wheel, things can go wrong very quick.

Just found this on a news site (so I can't confirm if this is a true statement or not):

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that police chief Sylvia Moir said based on videos taken from the car "it's very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway."

[Lynn LeFey]

This is the same with hitting deer. The reaction time of a person, fully alert, or even an automated system, still might not be able to avoid hitting something that jumps into the roadway that quickly.

At least an automated system might have better peripheral scanning to sense the deer approaching at night. But when someone jumps out from behind a parked car, not much can be done.

[ironraven]

Not everyone who hits a pedestrian is sleeping behind the wheel, sometimes there's just not enough room/time to take evasive actions, be it by hitting the brake or changing direction, or both ...

Sure, I've nearly stepped on a couple of them. Part of why I said that was from having to deal with bleeding edge obsessed nitwits all day. They are convinced that the technology will never fail, and they would get a self driving car as soon as it hit the market and sleep during their commute. That seems to be the kind of person that uber would be hiring. But...

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that police chief Sylvia Moir said based on videos taken from the car "it's very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway."

This part hadn't been released. This sounds like a single point of human failure. Unfortunate, but it happens.

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

[gregozedobe]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) there will always be some scenarios that haven't been thought of and therefore haven't been programmed for. 

That said, I believe that it won't be long before self-driving cars are (statistically speaking) safer than the "average" driver, and some are probably already safer than certain drivers (drunk/drug affected, distracted by smart phones or squabbling children, stupidly fast speedsters etc etc)

[Grant Lamontagne]

One only needs to watch part of an episode of Canada's Worst Driver to see that self driving cars can't get here fast enough.   

Def

[Don Pablo]

One only needs to watch part of an episode of Canada's Worst Driver to see that self driving cars can't get here fast enough.   

Def

Or have Defs luck....
Rolls 2d10... Darn, another random encounter with a bad driver! 

[Lynn LeFey]

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) there will always be some scenarios that haven't been thought of and therefore haven't been programmed for. 

That said, I believe that it won't be long before self-driving cars are (statistically speaking) safer than the "average" driver, and some are probably already safer than certain drivers (drunk/drug affected, distracted by smart phones or squabbling children, stupidly fast speedsters etc etc)

I wrote embedded systems for McDonnell Douglas/Boeing for a while, and it is shockingly complex work. And as the saying goes, "If you make something idiot-proof, someone will just make a better idiot."

I was thinking on this the other night. The amount of brain power it takes to determine what constitutes a road. Sometimes it's very clear. Sometimes it's REALLY not. And what about road debris, knowing the difference between a piece of tyvec flopping across the road or a plastic car bumper, or an injured person, and the difference in evasive maneuvers in each situation. How do you know what a driveway is, if it isn't paved? What does an automated car do when it gets to its destination and the driver is unconscious? Park itself, and start blaring heavy metal?

One AMAZING possible benefit to self-driving cars is if they could communicate with each other. Then, when something occurs causing one car to react, other cars could almost simultaneously know of it, and decelerate. I crested a hill one day, coming to work, and immediately saw cars stretching about a mile and a half into the distance sliding off the road, running into each other and was about 3 seconds late on figuring I myself was on black ice. If the cars communicated, the ones following would be able to avoid the problem, or at least more reasonably mitigate it.

This, like any technology, will certainly improve over time. Having grown up in the world we did, I don't know if I'll ever feel 100% comfortable with it.

[Don Pablo]

Just seen the accident dash cam video..... chilling.
And I don’t know if it is because of the screen I was watching it on, but I didn’t see the woman until it would have been too late. 
High-vis vests save lives!! (From a human driver perspective)

[chrono]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) ...

Why the Guinness World Record has not looked you up yet ...?!? 

[Don Pablo]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) ...

Why the Guinness World Record has not looked you up yet ...?!? 

30 decades = 300 years
What computers were you using during the Declaration of Independence? 

[ThundahBeagle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

Where does the liability stand? Software? Man behind the wheel? the programmer? or all of them

I see this stopping all testing on public highways for a long time

Or none of them ...

Maybe the woman herself was responsible for what happened,  no disrespect, but sometimes a pedestrian can jump out in front of a car in a way that an accident can't be avoided, even with a real person behind the steering wheel.  Not saying that this was the case here, but let's be honest, how many pedestrians were killed that same day by non self-driving cars ?

I'm not saying that the victims death isn't a tragedy, so no tar and feathers for me please ...

True, people do stupid things, bloody hell I have. but think of the potential lawsuits here. I would love a self driving car that I could do 500 miles on a motorway and do nothing other than listen to music and relax!

Hi Smashing et al

We already have cars you don't have to drive - they are called taxis. Or a bus. Or train. Or if you are inclined to get into the car of a perfect stranger who has not been vetted by the police, you may use an Uber.

I understand why this is widely accepted in europe, as it has been a very mass transit culture and infrastructure there since the end of the last big one.

Here in the US , the privately owned car provides a means to go where you will, on a whim, and has always represented a certain amount of freedom and free spiritedness.

I'm in the tech field, and had my doubts about air bags and ABS when they came out. I've accepted them. I'm sure this technology will progress as well, and eventually overtake the individual -driven car given time, although it makes my hair stand on end. Given what I've been able to do to remote control other systems at will, I cringe at the bad possibilities,  while I do acknowledge it will probably make stupid accidents near obsolete.

Remember these times well.

[ThundahBeagle]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) ...

Why the Guinness World Record has not looked you up yet ...?!? 

30 decades = 300 years
What computers were you using during the Declaration of Independence? 

He was automating an abacus?

[ThundahBeagle]

Self driving cars. Automated traffic and tolling systems. Drones. Robitic dogs and horses for the army. GPS, worldwide social tracking and monitoring. Internet news that can be changed moment to moment. Giant TV'show hooked up to the internet telling us what a few people want to hear and see.

1984
Fahrenheit 451
Skynet
Or Slartibarfast?

[Smashie]

Hi Smashing et al

Please at least have the courtesy of getting my name right, it's Smashie or Mark

[BePrepared]

The liability issue of self-driving cars is easy to solve --- make the human in the car finally responsible.  This may go against the whole idea of the self-driving car, but I cannot see the big corporations taking the liability if they can shift it to the individual driver.  It's what we have now, essentially.

What I worry about is when the other car's AI has to make a choice --- swerve to avoid me in my car and head into another car/ lorry/ ditch/ or  group of people, or take the hit and take me out in my car.  Personally, my car is going to be covered with 'baby on board' and 'kittens on board' stickers/barcodes, so the other car's AI hopefully 'reads' the stickers and makes the right choice...

Seriously, a 30mph head on collision is a 60mph crash with a few tons of metal --- if cars were invented today I doubt it would be so easy to let random humans take control of these machines... but then, this reminds of the Third Rock from Sun episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veRJ5fOP55Q

[gregozedobe]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) ...

Why the Guinness World Record has not looked you up yet ...?!? 

30 decades = 300 years
What computers were you using during the Declaration of Independence? 

Hey, maybe I'm old enough to claim age-related dementia .... and I can't go back and change my original post now, and it wouldn't do me any good to try because all you eagle-eyed maths nerds have quoted it anyway. 

In case anyone hasn't figured it out I should have said 3 decades or 30 years.  Mind you, there's probably not very many on here that wrote their first computer program before 1971     

[Don Pablo]

But I stick by my statement that I don't think the technology is quite ready for the open road yet.

I agree.  Based on my experience (30 decades of computer programming) ...

Why the Guinness World Record has not looked you up yet ...?!? 

30 decades = 300 years
What computers were you using during the Declaration of Independence? 

Hey, maybe I'm old enough to claim age-related dementia .... and I can't go back and change my original post now, and it wouldn't do me any good to try because all you eagle-eyed maths nerds have quoted it anyway. 

In case anyone hasn't figured it out I should have said 3 decades or 30 years.  Mind you, there's probably not very many on here that wrote their first computer program before 1971     

30 years ago was 1988. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Hi Smashing et al

Please at least have the courtesy of getting my name right, it's Smashie or Mark

Probably just an autocorrect fail.  Happens to me all the time when using my phone or tablet.  I'm sure no disrespect was intended.

The worst part is that my ohone will then 8gnore obvious typos. 

Def

[Don Pablo]

Hi Smashing et al

Please at least have the courtesy of getting my name right, it's Smashie or Mark

Probably just an autocorrect fail.  Happens to me all the time when using my phone or tablet.  I'm sure no disrespect was intended.

The worst part is that my ohone will then 8gnore obvious typos. 

Def

Jajaja.... My autocorrect is bilingual (Español y Inglés) so I have to be twice as careful with making sure that it doesn’t mess up what I’m typing.