Victorinox still using Wenger Logo

[El Corkscrew]

I had no idea this was going on, did yawl?

I guess it's pretty cool, a little bittersweet and mildly inappropriate maybe...

https://www.victorinox.com/us/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Small-Pocket-Knives/Wenger/p/0.6423.91

[Mechanickal]

Yup.
Old news

[El Corkscrew]

Dang, my b.   Guess I don't look at the vic website very often.

[FolderBeholder]

Guess I don't look at the vic website very often.

Me neither El C.  I'm always looking for formerly owned knives, so I didn't know about that little cross-over knife either! 

[Barry Rowland]

I'm glad to see it though.  The Esquire is a great little knife, but it just doesn't look quite right with the Vic shield to me.

[Syem]

Strangest thing is it comes in a grey Vic box. And that tang-stamp...

I heard it was a trademark thing. They have to release at least 1 product with the name within 10 years to keep the right to use it.

[VICMAN]

I had no idea this was going on, did yawl?
I guess it's pretty cool, a little bittersweet and mildly inappropriate maybe...

I wasn't aware of it El C.
I like it.
Thanks for sharing the info.

[jalind]

Didn't know about this one until now. Doesn't surprise me though. Doing so to protect the trademark seems a bit odd, as the Wenger trademark continues with luggage, watches, wallets and other products with the brand and its trademarks now owned by Victorinox. I'm not steeped in Swiss trademark law but it would be illogical for Victorinox to lose the rights to it by not using it on a knife if it's being used on numerous other products. Strikes me more as a throwback, like sports teams occasionally wearing old pattern uniforms.

Edit: Shows out of stock, which doesn't surprise me.
Thanks for raising awareness about them.

John

[Syem]

Didn't know about this one until now. Doesn't surprise me though. Doing so to protect the trademark seems a bit odd, as the Wenger trademark continues with luggage, watches, wallets and other products with the brand and its trademarks now owned by Victorinox. I'm not steeped in Swiss trademark law but it would be illogical for Victorinox to lose the rights to it by not using it on a knife if it's being used on numerous other products. Strikes me more as a throwback, like sports teams occasionally wearing old pattern uniforms.

Edit: Shows out of stock, which doesn't surprise me.
Thanks for raising awareness about them.

John

As I understand it, it's an item category thing.
The most experienced/knowledgeable clerk in the Geneva flagship store told me this story about the use of the trademark in relation to the release of this specific knife. Maybe she was wrong though

[Huntsman]

Yawl need to check the Wiki every now and again

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Wenger+or+Executive+81

It's been there for six months or so              

Very interesting about the TM though Syem - Rather a cynical (or just pragmatic) move by Victorinox - I imagined more alturistic reasons!!
And restricting/enforcing a TM by category seems very strange - Surely Vic own the TM for ever.

It would be very strange in 10 years time to see the Wenger logo on luggage made by Vic/Wenger
and then the Wenger logo on a multitool made by SOG or Leatherman      

[Syem]

Yawl need to check the Wiki every now and again

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Wenger+or+Executive+81

It's been there for six months or so              

Very interesting about the TM though Syem - Rather a cynical (or just pragmatic) move by Victorinox - I imagined more alturistic reasons!!
And restricting/enforcing a TM by category seems very strange - Surely Vic own the TM for ever.

It would be very starnge in 10 years time to see the Wenger logo on luggage made by Vic/Wenger
and then the Wenger logo on a multitool made by SOG or Leatherman      

Maybe it's about having to pay again to register again a TM for a specific category of products?

[ThePeacent]

to me it doesn't feel right 

[El Corkscrew]

Ageed,  TP.   They should have made it a pocket toolchest

[jalind]

Yawl need to check the Wiki every now and again

http://www.sakwiki.com/ti...ox+Wenger+or+Executive+81

It's been there for six months or so              

Very interesting about the TM though Syem - Rather a cynical (or just pragmatic) move by Victorinox - I imagined more alturistic reasons!!
And restricting/enforcing a TM by category seems very strange - Surely Vic own the TM for ever.

It would be very strange in 10 years time to see the Wenger logo on luggage made by Vic/Wenger
and then the Wenger logo on a multitool made by SOG or Leatherman      

True Trademark Story regarding the Android name:
Trademarked names can be used by several different companies if their products are sufficiently differentiated geographically, or by the nature of their products or services, or a combination of the two. The test is whether or not there would be public confusion regarding who the company is. As an example, there was an Android watch company. Its name and logos were trademarked and he (the owner) had sufficient international market visibility of them to make a legitimate legal claim that it wasn't geographically limited. This predated Google creating the Android operating system for cell phones. He made watches and Google made phones. Not a problem until Google decided to create smart watches and call them Android watches. Now they bit into the other Android name and his long-standing market. Being the 600 pound gorilla in the room, Google simply ignored him and proceeded with their steamroller. The Android phone geeks went ballistic that someone should be trampling Google's name oblivious to the man who owned the watch company having trademarked it and its logos long before Google called anything an "Android". Google was sued in a US Federal District Court in California in Google's jurisdiction. The two reached an undisclosed settlement in which, for an untold large sum, the watch company sold the name and logo rights to Google. Smart move as too many people were publicly calling the watches an "Android Watch" which threatened the name with becoming legally genericized as has happened with Thermos, Escalator, and Aspirin, to name just three trademarks lost to public domain in that exact manner. He used the money to rename his company, retool everything with the new name and logo, take a very nice year or so vacation, and set himself up with a large nest egg of untold size. Had to sue Google to bring them to the bargaining table to buy the rights or they'd have simply steamrollered him. The Google Android logos and the watch company's logos were completely different, although as part of the settlement he relinquished those as well.

All that said, protecting the Wenger name as it applies to knives is one thing and I could understand the possible need to use it on a knife periodically just to ward off any claim of abandonment regarding knives. The Wenger trademarked logo is another matter. In general, it is much more difficult to hijack a trademarked logo by someone laying claim it has fallen into disuse and abandonment for a market segment of commodity. There again, this would get into Swiss trademark laws regarding how trademarked names and logos must be "defended" in market segments to prevent them from being hijacked with abandonment claims.

The real threat isn't Leatherman, Gerber or SOG hijacking the "Wenger" name as they have their own names and trademarks that enjoy decent respect from the public (called "Public Good Will").  It's a few very wealthy guys in China (the PRC) or Hong Kong (part of the PRC) with nothing better to do with their money than to take over the Wenger name on pocket knives and start dumping them by the rail car load onto Amazon, ePrey and Walmart, leveraging on the former Swiss brand recognition. It's been done with other brands names. You'd be shocked at some of the brands now owned by Chinese and Hong Kong dudes with more money than they can figure out how to spend on something other than gambling in casinos.

John

[Mactire404]

I saw one on display in a local outdoor store.
I must have glanced over it and it hit me a while later... was that a Wenger?!
And indeed, it shows on their website and I actually went back to the store to check.

And it's not only the logo/brand they are using, also the scissors.

[dks]

The General Cigar Company uses the Cohiba name in the US purely to associate/link/confuse their product with the genuine Cuban premium line (Cohiba was started way after the Cuban revolution so it can not be claimed that he name belonged to Cuban family and was taken with them when they left after the revolution), If their cigars are good they would sell under an original name.

I think they are not paying the Cuban brand owner money and just use the name because they are allowed to do so, in the US.  It is not just other countries that copy names or try to pretend to be another brand.

[jalind]

I saw one on display in a local outdoor store.
I must have glanced over it and it hit me a while later... was that a Wenger?!
And indeed, it shows on their website and I actually went back to the store to check.

And it's not only the logo/brand they are using, also the scissors.

In the former Evolution models that Victorinox continued with a Victorinox logo on the scales for the Delemont line, most of the tools were maintained including the Wenger scissors. The awl, can opener, toothpick and tweezers were changed over to Victorinox as the general consensus was the Victorinox were better designs. When Victorinox changed the logo, the shape of the outer liners and the exact form of the scales were also changed so that the liners go to the edge and show along it as with other Victorinox versus the original Wenger scales which wrap around the outer liners concealing their edge. Doing so with the outer liners helps keep the Cellidor scales from chipping or cracking if the knife is dropped.

In addition, Wenger used the same frame and liners on their Evolution and EvoGrip models as they did on the Classic counterparts with the same tool set. Only difference between them were the scales. Indeed, if one has the proper version of the "classic" Wenger scales and the Evolution or Evo scales, they can be switched on the Wenger knife. Cannot do that now with the Victorinox Evolution and EvoGrip as the outer liners are kidney shape and extend to the edge.

This is the Wenger Esquire (aka Executive 81) in its last version made by Wenger. Note location and size of key ring and that the tweezers and toothpick are not visible as they're flush with the end of the scales (need end view to see them). The scales wrap around the liners. Those with sharp eyes will notice the scissors spring lever isn't visible. It's there, but still behind the scissors handle. Has a Wenger imprint on the pen blade tang. The Wenger name is also molded into the scales in raised letters.



This is the Victorinox revision of the same model, now called the Delemont Executive 81 (not to be confused with the 74mm Vic Executive). Note the location and size of key ring, visibility of the end of the tweezers, and visibility of the edge on the slightly larger liners that the Victorinox imprinted scales do not wrap around. The pen blade is the same tool with a Victorinox imprint on its tang replacing the Wenger. Vic also has an Evo 81 with the kidney shaped Evolution scales in wood.



Compare these two photos with the Victorinox catalog photo of the apparently limited run of Executive 81 wearing Wenger livery. The Wenger name is in flush white letters using the same method to apply it as the Wenger symbol, not raised molded letters. It's the Victorinox Delemont Executive 81 with Wenger logo. Has the redesigned liners, Vic tweezers and Victorinox imprint on the pen blade tang.



Thought it would be good to show a comparison of the Wenger, the Vic and the Vic reissue with Wenger logos. These are all 65mm in the original Wenger size, placing them between the 58mm Vic Classic line and the larger 74mm Vic Ambassador, Prince and Executive size.

Footnote regarding Wenger scales:
Wenger revised their scales mounting on their knives several times over the years. In replacing or swapping scales between non-Evo Wenger one must be certain of the mounting scheme used on the knife liners and of the mounting scheme the scales were molded for. Went down the path of this replacing some scales on a couple of non-Evo Wenger with the classic oval shape. The Wenger Evo scales used the last revision of mounting scheme. However, they're not interchangeable with the Victorinox scales for the Victorinox Delemont version of the same knife. IOW, the Vic scales on a Vic Delemont Evo cannot be replaced with Wenger Evo scales (or any Wenger scales for that matter). Neither can the Wenger logo scales on this Vic reissue be replaced with original Wenger scales. The liners are different (larger) from the original Wenger. There's more on Wenger scales and the revisions of them in the mod forum.

John

[Mactire404]

Very nice post @Jalind!

Now I'm tempted to pick one up 

[ThePeacent]

excellent info John, thanks 

[Faddy Daddy]

I too would like one of these - I put my name on the email notification list 
I've been carrying my manager for months now, but this looks a little larger with no tools I don't want.

[El Corkscrew]

Which tools don't you want from el Manager??

[Faddy Daddy]

I never really use the Phillips/bottle opener combo nor the pen. I do like the manager immensely over the classic, not sure why, maybe it just seems a tad more substantial, weird. But that wenger model I think I would like a bit larger blade and scissors though not as large as ambassador etc.

[Barry Rowland]

I have the Evo version and really like the size.  It handles and carries like a dream.  My son has two Wenger Esquire models and I would like to pick up one of these models to save my 81.

[Faddy Daddy]

Sounds nice Barry, can never have enough!
Yep, I've just been carrying my manager loosely in my front pocket, anything much bigger than that eventually starts wearing a hole, as you say, it's seems a really nice size.

[Faddy Daddy]

Just received an email that these "wenger" models are back in stock. I might just have to order one for myself.
I have really been on a keychain or small multi tool kick lately. Between carrying my manager, I've also had some leatherman models falling back in favor, notably the PS4, Micra and Style CS. I think this Wenger model should fit in nicely.

[El Corkscrew]

Ooh,  I'm thinking I want one too!

[Faddy Daddy]

Mine's been ordered and should be on the way! 

[FolderBeholder]

I added one to my Expedition Kit order today because I found out that Victorinox offers a 20% off coupon code if you sign up for their newsletter.   

[Faddy Daddy]

Wow, that's nice to hear FolderBeholder. I get emails from them, have for quite some time but I don't recall ever getting a discount,   

[FolderBeholder]

Wow, that's nice to hear FolderBeholder. I get emails from them, have for quite some time but I don't recall ever getting a discount,   

I was browsing the knives the other day and it was some type of pop-up that showed up and told me to sign up for their newsletter for a 20% off coupon code.
I had not seen it before.   The timing was good since I wanted a $210 SAK.