MMA?

[Gerhard Gerber]

I've always been of the opinion that to be a world champ, to be the best at anything, that person wil by default be a bit of a smurf.

Being competitive enough to win on that level does not go along with being a nice girl/guy........

That said, everything within limits, I loved Schumacher even more for the times he was a bit dirty   

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.
The sensei did a demo on me, ideal example since I am literally double his size and weight.
I'm rather strong in my hands, and I could not hold on to him, he was 60kg and small of build, all skill.
I have to say I also respected him for the way he did the demo, he inspired the other students and impressed rather than tried to humiliate the big guy..... 

Long story short, I figure a wrestler in MMA with those hand-fighting skills would be deadly....

[lister]

If you mean one of those tricks, where you try to hold an opponents forearms but can't because he relaxes them and waves them about as if mad, then it was nothing more than a party trick. Not really useful in a fight. And that's exactly what I like about MMA, bullsmurf walks... 

[Gareth]

I think MMA is an excellent demonstration as to why most martial art systems also involve weapons.   It can be very hard to stop a determined person with just your hands and feet.

[dks]

Now, now, no dangerous knives are allowed in the UK Gareth.

[Don Pablo]

Dangerous limbs will be next [to be made illegal], deeks.

[dks]

Dangerous Deeks are already illegal

[Gerhard Gerber]

If you mean one of those tricks, where you try to hold an opponents forearms but can't because he relaxes them and waves them about as if mad, then it was nothing more than a party trick. Not really useful in a fight. And that's exactly what I like about MMA, bullsmurf walks... 

Nope....wish I could remember the code's name, but didn't seem like bullsmurf.

I attended one lesson and came to the conclusion it would end quickly and badly for the attacker.

Example, through my life one of my best defenses was my left hand holding the other guy's right hand.......his weapon is out of action, mine is free.

To get out of a wrist grip like that, flex your hand upwards at the wrist and move in a circular motion over the opponent's wrist, even with my hand strength I can't hold on.

Their approach is defense, but they also assume you are the weaker party and your defense will fail at some point, so you need to defend and then attack then escape.

None of this works without practice and muscle memory (what does?), but the attacking moves are rather fascinating because it uses leverage to build potential energy and break the grip, and when the grip breaks you direct you arm at a vulnerable body part.

I think MMA is an excellent demonstration as to why most martial art systems also involve weapons.   It can be very hard to stop a determined person with just your hands and feet.

   

 

Due to past experiences, when&if the need arises I'll hit with anything that comes to hand.......to save my hands.

 

[Gareth]

The few scuffles I've been in during my life have always ended quickly as most people don't expect folks to fight back and they don't enjoy being hurt.  In other words; looking to beat someone up rather than have a fight.  HOWEVER, if someone is very determined then it's surprising how little effect mere pain has in deterring them. 

I will add that my above comments are in no way intended as advocating carrying a weapon, but merely intended as a observation that most martial arts historically recognised the fact and, once the fundamentals of the unarmed skills were understood, taught weapon skills.

[Lynn LeFey]

The martial art I practice is called 'the art of fighting without fighting'. I learned it from Bruce Lee.

[Vidar]

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.

Only thing that comes to mind with WC is Wing Chun which is a branch of or related to kung fu. Thought that is more like rapid close quarter fighting with a centerline focus than say for example judo with its redirecting. Although Wing Chun do try to combine countering with attacks - if that counts? I guess you thought of something else though.

Long story short, I figure a wrestler in MMA with those hand-fighting skills would be deadly....

MMA has been around long enough that I suspect most things have been tried by now. Various wrist grips and breaks are well known in general and most likely all the fighters who have trained for years and years are well aware and know how to defend against them. And I think breaking fingers are prohibited. (Some might even defensively do grips without the thumb on the opposite side but rather parallel to the other fingers). Totally agree that wrestlers should have a great background 

Against untrained people though wrist manipulations and throws can be quite effective. There are people out there that will be more than happy if some opponent happen to grab their wrist or forearm - having an arm and wrist just offered up like that just saves them from the trouble of going after them.

In a historic perspective judo was a lot more brutal in its original form. Civil training and competition didn't mix well with that though, so a lot of the hardcore stuff was removed or dialed down. For instance a backwards sacrificial throw these days consists of grabbing the opponent by the shoulders, putting a foot at their stomach and rolling backwards so they get a flight. The sharper business version was grabbing and yanking the opponents hair, kicking them upwards with the shin in the groin and then roll backwards. Having been exposed to both I can testify that number two is a lot worse! (Don't volunteer to things you don't have a clue about  )

Some karate styles also recognized early on the importance of holds, throws and ground fighting. At one point in Kyokushinkai for instance one could not become a black belt without already having a black belt in judo. Then competition and changing philosophies watered that down too, to the extent that holds, throws and ground fight were not to be seen in competition and thus not much focus in training either. (Replaced by more flashy high and roundhouse kicks I guess).

[Vidar]

The martial art I practice is called 'the art of fighting without fighting'. I learned it from Bruce Lee.

That is a classic 

[Gareth]

Good post Vidar.  I have a friend who has spend many years studying and practicing unarmed European martial arts and he makes the point that, in the C18th, boxing took over in popularity from wrestling as a country pursuit as you were less likely to get a debilitating injury from boxing.  Hard to get paid as a farm hand if you've got a broken shoulder.  Not so bad if you've got a broken nose.  Though it should be pointed out that boxing of the time did include a lot more throws than it does now.  Another example of martial arts changing to suit competition I suppose.

[styx]

am I the only one here who thought that Arlovski could beat Fedor?

[Gerhard Gerber]

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.

Only thing that comes to mind with WC is Wing Chun which is a branch of or related to kung fu. Thought that is more like rapid close quarter fighting with a centerline focus than say for example judo with its redirecting. Although Wing Chun do try to combine countering with attacks - if that counts? I guess you thought of something else though.

That's it.......and
 
....obviously you know a lot more than I do!

[Vidar]

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.

Only thing that comes to mind with WC is Wing Chun which is a branch of or related to kung fu. Thought that is more like rapid close quarter fighting with a centerline focus than say for example judo with its redirecting. Although Wing Chun do try to combine countering with attacks - if that counts? I guess you thought of something else though.

That's it.......and
 
....obviously you know a lot more than I do!

Wing Chun is quite fascinating with rapid hands, short blows, ingenious leg attacks, trappings and blindsiding. Lots of interesting stuff to pick up for sure. If the arena of MMA was a narrow alleyway, or the size of an old school phone booth, I suspect Wing Chun would do extremely well. Environment matters.

I did pick up some general knowledge over the years. Finally some use for it - my destiny is fulfilled - or something!  

(While I'm at it I confess to loving the Kung-Fu Panda, Shaolin Soccer, Kung-Fu Hustle and early Jackie Chan movies. They are good at making fun of martial art smurfings).

What exactly are the rules and limitations of MMA these days?

[ThePeacent]

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.

Only thing that comes to mind with WC is Wing Chun which is a branch of or related to kung fu. Thought that is more like rapid close quarter fighting with a centerline focus than say for example judo with its redirecting. Although Wing Chun do try to combine countering with attacks - if that counts? I guess you thought of something else though.

That's it.......and
 
....obviously you know a lot more than I do!

Wing Chun is quite fascinating with rapid hands, short blows, ingenious leg attacks, trappings and blindsiding. Lots of interesting stuff to pick up for sure. If the arena of MMA was a narrow alleyway, or the size of an old school phone booth, I suspect Wing Chun would do extremely well. Environment matters.

I did pick up some general knowledge over the years. Finally some use for it - my destiny is fulfilled - or something!  

(While I'm at it I confess to loving the Kung-Fu Panda, Shaolin Soccer, Kung-Fu Hustle and early Jackie Chan movies. They are good at making fun of martial art smurfings).

What exactly are the rules and limitations of MMA these days?

don't forget Ip Man if you're into Wing Chun     (min 3:45  )

[styx]

I had a though watching the previous UFC, the only martial arts training I ever had was attending a self defense class with my landlord at that time....
For the life of me can't remember the name, but seem to recall WC....? Anyway, developed by monks for self defense,  it's about getting free and redirecting the attacker's force back at him......rather fascinating.

Only thing that comes to mind with WC is Wing Chun which is a branch of or related to kung fu. Thought that is more like rapid close quarter fighting with a centerline focus than say for example judo with its redirecting. Although Wing Chun do try to combine countering with attacks - if that counts? I guess you thought of something else though.

That's it.......and
 
....obviously you know a lot more than I do!

Wing Chun is quite fascinating with rapid hands, short blows, ingenious leg attacks, trappings and blindsiding. Lots of interesting stuff to pick up for sure. If the arena of MMA was a narrow alleyway, or the size of an old school phone booth, I suspect Wing Chun would do extremely well. Environment matters.

I did pick up some general knowledge over the years. Finally some use for it - my destiny is fulfilled - or something!  

(While I'm at it I confess to loving the Kung-Fu Panda, Shaolin Soccer, Kung-Fu Hustle and early Jackie Chan movies. They are good at making fun of martial art smurfings).

What exactly are the rules and limitations of MMA these days?

some of the rules are subject to local authorities so they theoretically could change from venue to venue. I know there was some debate as NY state commission allows knees to the head in a situation where most commissions don't

[Vidar]

don't forget Ip Man if you're into Wing Chun     (min 3:45  )

I had forgotten about that one Movie mayhem, and quite a legend in China.

In the early Jackie Chan movies many of the group fight scenes were supposedly not all that choreographed. Instead they had certain sounds to signal what kind of attack would be coming and at what height, and the direction of the sound would indicate from where. So basically the attacks were briefly signaled and they improvised from there - and just shoot tons of material and edit it down afterwards.

I find that kind of clever and funny at the same time. All those "ah", "yi" and "oh"s in the fight scenes actually had a purpose I guess you can do that tactic if you have worked with the same crew for ages.

[Lynn LeFey]

I thought this was a really good essay on Jackie Chan and filming physical comedy. Kinda-sorta related.

[Vidar]

I thought this was a really good essay on Jackie Chan and filming physical comedy. Kinda-sorta related.

That was interesting. I've always known there was something different with Hong Kong action, and now I know a bit of what those differences are.

[Gerhard Gerber]

AND STILL! 

UFC 242 Khabib vs. Poirier 

Eventually they all get beaten, but it looks like it'll be a while before Khabib Nurmagomedov experiences that! 

Never ever mess with those bear fighters/ mountain climbers from Dagestan! 

[Gerhard Gerber]

Watched UFC 245 last night, and I was very worried there for a bit.......

And Still! Kamaru Usman 

I don't often support my Nigerian brothers, further down in Africa your exposure to them will most likely be a drug dealer or a 419 scammer.

Which brings me to Colby Covington 
It might be an act, but I severely dislike his bad boy image, trash talk is one thing, he's a bad sportsman and plain trash IMO.

Very fittingly Kamaru broke his jaw (in the 3rd IIRC) and put him down in the 5th 

Not sure if they still wire up broken jaws, but it should at least shut him up for a bit