Access to Power -SOG 30-day Challenge! Starting June 1st! Access & Access Deluxe

[Wspeed]

The early PA had a mediocre file, but maybe they have remedied that.

W,
I forgot to mention! Congrats on getting the PA! That was excellent CS on SOG's part.

Thanks GLBM 
I can’t fault SOG for their C/S
It’s still the same file but the grooves seem slightly deeper
And the thin side of the file has been cut better
Should be able to remove metal
not like on the PAD where all I got are just scratched lines

[gerleatherberman]

Excellent.


Day 14:
Taking a break out in front of the store.

[Nix]

You guys have been busy while I've been away!   

I'm sorry, but my file is still a piece of junk. I didn't test it against aluminum, but it barely notches a tin can and was useless trying to 'sharpen' the point of a nail. These are tasks that an actual file can do easily. But, nice work, WSpeed, demonstrating that aluminum is workable with the file. How that can be is a mystery, but it was good to see there is some use for the file.   

I love the way you guys are engaged in testing the PAD! 

[Nix]

Since I was gone and did not have cell phone access (woooo hooo!   ), I must post some photos retrospectively.

We had a great trip up to Glacier NP, Montana is looking nice and green after a long Winter. Just on the drive up we saw numerous deer, some elk, and lots of birds. 



Day 07:

The first night we set up camp and I decided to do a little cooking. I used the much maligned file to break up a fire starter and, in conjunction with a ferro rod, throw some good sparks to start a fire:



The sharp-eyed reader will notice that I'm using charcoal briquets. I did this because I was going to cook in a Dutch oven, and briquets give a little more predictability.



This worked out really well, and we had......brownies!  (Gotta keep Mrs Nix happy on camping trips.  )

[Nix]

Day 08:

Fun day. We did some hiking and nature gazing. The SOG's main blade was useful for opening a package of nuts, shaving some wood for the evening fire, and for peeling and slicing a cucumber for sandwiches. I only took a shot of the cucumber prep:



I will say that the main blade performed well for peeling and slicing, as well as shaving some fine curls of wood for fire making. I don't like the blade's shape and edge geometry, but I have to admit that it performed very well on this trip. 

Cucumber on a camping trip? Yeah...... ....I have a nice cooler and I gotta keep Mrs Nix happy.....   Here's our little trailer that serves as base camp, notice how green the woods are!



A gratuitous shot from the lake we were able to hike to:



And from a little further down the lake shore.....

[Nix]

Day 09:

Another fun day, but the weather turned a bit.






We did see several animals in the park, including deer, elk, numerous ground squirrels, numerous birds, and a black bear. I was able to snap this shot of a yearling deer as we hiked through the woods:



She had a sister nearby, but I didn't get a shot.


I love the Jet Boil camp stoves. I take one everywhere. However, once in a while, I tightened the butane control knob too much. The knob is small and can be a bit difficult to open with fat fingers. The SOG pliers provided just the right leverage to crack it open one morning when brewing up some tea:




SOG awl awlso came in handy to poke a couple of vent holes in the water jug to let water flow out more easily:




Overall the SOG proven to be a useful tool in camp. I used it in several roles and it performed well. Even my odd use of the file was successful. I was car camping and the PAD's extra weight was no bother. I carried it either in a pocket or in it's sheath, attached to my day pack.  Overall, a solid 'A' in meeting my camp needs. 

[gerleatherberman]

Beautiful pictures, Nix! Looks like you had a lovely trip! 

W tested his file on aluminum, but did you see the video where I used it successfully on door-hinge steel? The file actually worked fine(all three sides on mine) and it still feels smooth to the touch. One of those cases where our inherent senses can fail us. DT successfully tested the file on his as well.

I used a 60x-100x magnifier to look at my PAD file and found the actual texture interesting. It peaked my curiosity to the point I made the video. My hunch was verified. The file was mediocre, but leaps & bounds better than "practically useless".
I ranked it a bit less than 50% effective than the LM Rebar file. It has been established that the PAD/PA file is generally useful on harder materials (not fingernails).
You may want to contact SOG and see if they will send you a new file, as the rest of us(still in the challenge) have confirmed the file is actually usable, contrary to initial assumptions. 

Another day 14: the PAD is showb with the magnifier I used on the file before recording my file experiment.

[Nix]

G-man, if you are satisfied with the file, I think that is great.

Me? Not so much. In my book, a clear SOG fail. And SOG should be embarrassed. I'll keep testing it, but, based on this one feeble attempt at a tool, I won't be buying another SOG product. Ever. Any company that would sell a tool of this poor quality hasn't earned my respect and won't earn my business again. I have no use for a company that sells junk.

[gerleatherberman]

G-man, if you are satisfied with the file, I think that is great.

Me? Not so much. In my book, a clear SOG fail. And SOG should be embarrassed. I'll keep testing it, but, based on this one feeble attempt at a tool, I won't be buying another SOG product. Ever. Any company that would sell a tool of this poor quality hasn't earned my respect and won't earn my business again. I have no use for a company that sells junk.

Nix,
With due respect, I don't think it is fair to take an absolute stance based on the file on a single tool. The absolute stance here being that you said " I won't be buying another SOG product. Ever."
So, you're not going to see if you can get a replacement tool to find out if you got a dud?
It is a new model. Lots of teething going on with any new product. Alterations can be done and hopefully will be done.

In fact, I find it strange that people think in absolutes to be honest.
Absolutes negate nuance and disregard everything else(even something that is overall a decent tool).
Find me a perfect MT. I dare ya. I'll explain why it has something wrong with it.

If I am wasting my time trying to explain this, just let me know. That uploaded image says a lot.
I guess it isn't really relevant anyway, since the initial assumption was that the file was useless. Contrary evidence be damned.

[Nix]

I guess it isn't really relevant anyway, since the initial assumption was that the file was useless. Contrary evidence be damned.

G-man, I like your forgiving attitude. That may prove to be the wiser stance over the long run. 

My initial assumption was that the file would be effective. But then I handled it and tested it. As I said, I'll continue to evaluate the file, but, as of right now, it is my perception that SOG has been willing to sell a poorly designed and manufactured tool to the public. Without any concerns about quality control. In my eyes, this discredits the company. Why buy SOG, when I can buy a good multitool from Victorinox or Leatherman?

Sure, I might complain, and SOG might send me a replacement. But even that is not satisfactory; they should get it right the first time. A decent QC program should have spotted my ridiculous file at the factory. What about the buyer who doesn't know better? That's the scam that SOG appears to be running. Rip off most customers with a cheap tool at the cost of a few replacements for those who complain. They'll call that a 'business model'; I call that a scam. Failure to provide a decent---and I emphasize 'decent'--file in a multitool that claims to have a file blade is completely unacceptable. Call this an absolute if you will, but I see this as a minimum standard. LM doesn't have the fit and finish of Victorinox, but it's still a great tool. I'm willing to accept compromise as long as a minimum standard is met. With the file (and the can opener) SOG doesn't. I won't buy another SOG product because I don't need to. I can start with a company that believes in quality right from the start. That's not so much an 'absolute' as it is a pragmatic approach to spending my limited tool budget. "Fool me once, shame on you......"

You mention 'evidence to the contrary'. I haven't seen it. I have tested my file on wood and metal and it is next to useless. I'm delighted that your file seems to work better. Are you now saying that the PAD file is as good as a Victorinox file or Leatherman file? I'd find that interesting, but even still, not convincing. I can tell you mine is a piece of junk, although it did seem to work fairly well as a ferro-rod striker. And I did use it to clean out a bird feeder. But those aren't tasks that one needs a file for.

Add the lame can opener to the file issues, and SOG's poor design and impoverished manufacturing standards leave me just plain cold. Like I said before, after owning this 'tool' for just a month or so, I'd never buy a SOG product again. I no longer trust SOG. Period.

I don't think this tool will prove to be very durable either. I note here that Wspeed's nail cutting test--an extreme test, to be sure--resulted in a damaged tool. I'm seeing quality issues throughout this tool's manufacture. Reference also the fact that Wspeed had to return his first PAD for replacement before even starting the challenge. Out of the 5 MTo'ers in this thread who have owned PADs, 1 required replacement and 1 was returned for refund. That's a 40% failure rate. Aside from MLB batters, there are few careers where that is considered to be good.

I like that you appear to be optimistic and predisposed to give SOG the benefit of the doubt with respect to the PAD. At least in part, you are keeping me motivated for this challenge. And if you continue to be satisfied with the PAD and the file's performance, I hope you will continue to advocate for it. It is wonderfully useful for us to disagree about this and offer potential users different perspectives. I seriously doubt SOG will read this thread or care about our perceptions, but you and I may provide some useful data points for other MTo members. So, let's keep evaluating and comparing observations. 

Tomorrow, I will try to sharpen an axe with the PAD's file and with a standard file. This is a simple task that any decent file must be able to do.

Any predictions on how successful I'll be? Maybe I will have to eat my words........I kind of hope so, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

Keep up the fight, G-man!   

[gerleatherberman]

G-man, I like your forgiving attitude. That may prove to be the wiser stance over the long run. 

My life outlook requires a certain flexibility. I am always willing to consider a differing opinion or contrary facts. And sometimes alter mine in light of something more sensible. I never expect others to feel the same way though. Everyone has developed a system for navigating life and who am I to ultimately say who's right or wrong in that sense? I generally approach things asking myself "could I be wrong or misinformed?". I guess it could be attributed to a borderline unhealthy amount of empathy. Like other's world views serve them well, the one I use to navigate life has served me well.
Don't get me wrong though, I am not on the street corners buying snake oil all day.

My initial assumption was that the file would be effective. But then I handled it and tested it. As I said, I'll continue to evaluate the file, but, as of right now, it is my perception that SOG has been willing to sell a poorly designed and manufactured tool to the public. Without any concerns about quality control. In my eyes, this discredits the company. Why buy SOG, when I can buy a good multitool from Victorinox or Leatherman?

I see your point and tend to agree. However, I try to keep in mind that even LM and Vic have sold tools that shouldn't have passed their strenuous QC.
Example 1: Several of my LMs, purchased brand new, were so stiff from the factory that I am not sure a normal person could have utilized the tool. Not as severe as a poorly cut file, but LM claims to be excessive with QC. SOG makes few(if any) claims about their QC. It isn't an excuse for it, but I hold a company who proclaims their perfection,  to a much higher standard than a company who doesn't.
Example 2: I have two SAKs with the newer clear magnifier mount (post 2005) and have experienced the lense "popping" out with no reason for it to do so. Vic claims incredible levels of QC and still sold tools with a know weakness.
Using the logic you stated in a general sense (not concise), I should not buy a LM or Vic product ever again.
Good thing is that I am a collector and will probably keep buying from most of the brands. However, I do not hesitate to return a tool and call the company to smurf at them.

Sure, I might complain, and SOG might send me a replacement. But even that is not satisfactory; they should get it right the first time. A decent QC program should have spotted my ridiculous file at the factory. What about the buyer who doesn't know better? That's the scam that SOG appears to be running. Rip off most customers with a cheap tool at the cost of a few replacements for those who complain. They'll call that a 'business model'; I call that a scam. Failure to provide a decent---and I emphasize 'decent'--file in a multitool that claims to have a file blade is completely unacceptable. Call this an absolute if you will, but I see this as a minimum standard. LM doesn't have the fit and finish of Victorinox, but it's still a great tool. I'm willing to accept compromise as long as a minimum standard is met. With the file (and the can opener) SOG doesn't. I won't buy another SOG product because I don't need to. I can start with a company that believes in quality right from the start. That's not so much an 'absolute' as it is a pragmatic approach to spending my limited tool budget. "Fool me once, shame on you......"

I understand your position here and there isn't much of an argument that could contradict the position.
However, you could take another route. Maybe purchase one of their tools that has a proven track record for a standard of quality? Such as the PowerLock?
The original PowerAccess was known to have serious problems (though they seem to have rectified many of) and we knew, before buying them, the Deluxe was the same platform (although scaled up) with identical same-tools to the PA (aside from the cutting blade). Knowing this, we still bought the PADs. Wouldn't a better approach have been to use what we know to buy something that isn't known to be faulty? Such as a PowerLock.
You could say you weren't aware of the non-deluxe PA's problems and I would grant that, but you did know the PAD was a brand new original design that wasn't based on any pre-existing chasis. Which would make it inherently unproven in real world usage. Gerber has been down this road more than SOG and has never apologized for it. Couldn't we give the same benefit of the doubt that Gerber was given? Gerber pulled themselves out of the gutter. Couldn't SOG do the same? I am hoping SOG will do so. Gerber had at least ten engineering failures and the customers spoke out and returned the junk enough that Gerber eventually listened.
The PA/PAD is a VAST improvement over the PowerDuo, PowerPlay, and 'new' MicroToolClip in terms of quality and fit & finish. SOG is trying and it does show. At least they are innovating. Vic and LM are basically stagnant in terms of design and innovation. Adding scissors to a Pioneer isn't innovative. Re-releasing the PST and charging $200+ is highway robbery and not innovative in the least.

You mention 'evidence to the contrary'. I haven't seen it. I have tested my file on wood and metal and it is next to useless. I'm delighted that your file seems to work better. Are you now saying that the PAD file is as good as a Victorinox file or Leatherman file? I'd find that interesting, but even still, not convincing. I can tell you mine is a piece of junk, although it did seem to work fairly well as a ferro-rod striker. And I did use it to clean out a bird feeder. But those aren't tasks that one needs a file for.

No, I said in my previous post and the video that I rated the PAD file (the one on my PAD) as a bit less than 50% as effective as the LM Rebar file.
The Rebar file is arguably the most aggressive file on any big-name MT, so that isn't a strong negative for the SOG PA file in my book. I would rate the Vic Spirit file about 80% as aggressive as the Rebar file. Most MT files aren't as nicely cut. Example: my subjective surmission is that the ST300 file is only 15%-20% more aggressive than the PAD file. These ratings are only for my perceived aggressiveness of the files. I am not accounting for length, shape, or thickness here.

Add the lame can opener to the file issues, and SOG's poor design and impoverished manufacturing standards leave me just plain cold. Like I said before, after owning this 'tool' for just a month or so, I'd never buy a SOG product again. I no longer trust SOG. Period.

Not many MTs have a decent can opener. I would prefer a P38 over any MT can opener. It isn't about how good or bad an MT can opener is. It is about which one sucks more. SOG just happens to hang at the end of that metaphorical rope.

I don't think this tool will prove to be very durable either. I note here that Wspeed's nail cutting test--an extreme test, to be sure--resulted in a damaged tool. I'm seeing quality issues throughout this tool's manufacture. Reference also the fact that Wspeed had to return his first PAD for replacement before even starting the challenge. Out of the 5 MTo'ers in this thread who have owned PADs, 1 required replacement and 1 was returned for refund. That's a 40% failure rate. Aside from MLB batters, there are few careers where that is considered to be good.

Abuse tests do not count in real life, because cutting hardened nails is not something any company says the tool is deigned for and isn't likely to be done in real life. I know Tim L. stood on a PST to cut a nail, but that is just ridiculous in my opinion and seems desperate to instill a false sense of grandeur about a tool to people who don't know any better.
The PAD file works for a majority of us that still have one to test. PN's observations were presupposed and short-lived(see his rating system). He returned his PAD having only rubbed his fingers/finger nails on the file. He cannot go back and properly test the file in accordance to what we now know, so his returning it doesn't count as inherent failure in any way.
We're left with a spring tempering problem that was promptly rectified and one person with a file that doesn't work.
The only general issue we can all confirm is that the can opener that is difficult to use.
Your numbers don't really apply with everything laid out in this thread. The only way around that is to look at it through an absolute position. There are too many facets at this point to do that though.  IMO of course.

I like that you appear to be optimistic and predisposed to give SOG the benefit of the doubt with respect to the PAD. At least in part, you are keeping me motivated for this challenge. And if you continue to be satisfied with the PAD and the file's performance, I hope you will continue to advocate for it. It is wonderfully useful for us to disagree about this and offer potential users different perspectives. I seriously doubt SOG will read this thread or care about our perceptions, but you and I may provide some useful data points for other MTo members. So, let's keep evaluating and comparing observations. 

First here: I must agree with your assertion that SOG will not see this or give it much thought. That is sad, but true. I will reserve final positioning on it though, because we could be wrong. SOG did listen about the PowerDuo and PowerGrab.
I've always enjoyed reading your posts, Nix. It is always helpful for people to express their thoughts in an intelligible sense. A lot of people will just say "it sucks" or "blah blah", but this thread has proven to be the most informative and interesting challenge I have participated in or read since joining Mt.o.
Thank you very much for having this discussion with me, Nix. It definitely has me thinking about the PAD more than any other MT I've ever owned, even if it isn't all that deserving of such.

Tomorrow, I will try to sharpen an axe with the PAD's file and with a standard file. This is a simple task that any decent file must be able to do.
Any predictions on how successful I'll be? Maybe I will have to eat my words........I kind of hope so, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

Good luck, Nix! I think, knowing you haven't been able to file tin, you won't have much luck though. Haha.
I do know I could likely do it with my PAD file. A QC consistency issue,  from all I have gathered, will be your main problem in using THAT file. I urge you to contact SOG and see if they will send you a replacement file. W mentioned the new PA he received had a usable file. Maybe SOG has rectified the file on the PAD as well, since it shares the same file with the PA.

Keep up the fight, G-man!   

Same to you!
  and 

[Wspeed]

interesting read Nix and GLBM 
I agree with both of you
Yes it should be a good MT from the start
And should have tools that work properly
I also think SOG needs to improve on Q/C
But I have been reading on the MTO forum
About problems with the Leatherman MTs
And I got the SAK Spartan with a bend
corkscrew from new

But getting back to the PAD I think it’s a great tool
Everything does seem to work
It’s just the can opener that is not
been finished properly and the file
Again looking at the pics of the file
That we all posted there are a lot of
Different finishes to the same file
and they should all be the same cut
The same with the can opener I have
now looked at 3 SOG can openers
2 PAD and 1 PA and all 3 had a different cutting edge 

I just can’t make my mind up if I
Could recommend the SOG PAD to a friend
And this comes mainly down to Q/C

But the challenge isn’t over yet so plenty more tools to use and test

[Wspeed]

Day 15

Today we finally got the new bulb delivered
It was on day 5 that our bathroom light stopped working
So this morning I finally got to fit the light and screw
the cover back on with the Philips driver

No problems using the Philips driver
I just wish it didn’t have that shape
A straight Philips driver would be better 

[ThePeacent]

my opinon on this matter is the folowing and worth what you paid for it 

I agree with WSpeed in that you both (Nix and GLBM) have valid points   

True is that SOG should once for all straighten their QC issues  and this tool could have been just another QC problem, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back after years of problematic tools. 
This was their opportunity to show that they care and take it seriously, but they miserably failed.

As a tool itself it might not be at all bad  and some things are innovative and admirable, but the fact that is the latest SOG and that they are very aware of the previous issues makes these mistakes harder to forgive now 

I am looking at SOG's future in a similar fashion to what happened to Gerber, Remington, or Smith and Wesson with their tools and knives: 
20 years ago I'd have bought 7 out of 10 of their products, recommended the other 2, and ignore 1 of them. 
Nowadays it's the opposite, I'd buy 1 out of 10 of their catalog, recommend just 2 and ignore the other 7. 

hopefully they will change in time and before their customers start opening their wallets to their competition, they are hurting themselves with this.

Also, I am not in favor of absolutes (I've had tools with a particularly bad screwdriver, a badly heat treated blade or defective pliers and pivot, which were not representative of the model itself but just a single, odd fluke in the system) and I would not "refrain from every buying from that company again"  for just one product of one of their lines, 

especially if it's a company that has got it right more times than it's got it wrong, and has a reputation built through time and good products. SOG is in my mind such type of company, and deserves another opportunity, even though if they keep this path they will lose even me  , a long time loyal customer, and I guess many others as well. 

[gerleatherberman]

Thank you both, TP and W, for outlining each of your thoughts on the matter.

The question of recommendation is a great question. IMO
I must concede, in the light of certain problems (of being a lesser quality than it could have been and not just the can opener or inconsistent files), I would have to outline the reasons the PAD isn't a good investment before saying someone should try it out or not. But, after stating that to the person, I would say it is worth a try if LM, Vic, and Gerber don't appeal to them.
The PAD has a good set of features that is well-adapted to a lot of people. Outboard tools, compund lev pliers and it is light weight. I would recommend it to someone like myself who is seeking something different than the same old stuff the other brands keep peddling.
I would not recommend it to a naive person though. But, having said that, I wouldn't recommend most tools in the $50+ range to an MT naive person either.

 

[Nix]

G-man, I continue to be impressed by your wonderfully thoughtful posts. 

While I'm busy griping here (not having your sense of tact), let me add that with my PAD, I have great difficulty in opening just one tool without all the other tools in the handle coming out. For example, if I try to pull open the can opener, I get the blades, the drivers, and the cap lifter open. The little nail nicks down near the pivot point are very difficult for me (short finger nails) to open. I now take it as a matter of course that I have to pull open all the tools, select the one I want, and then close the other tools. This is not a feature I enjoy.

I, too, liked Wspeed's question asking about a recommendation. I can tell you I would not recommend the PAD for anyone right now. That could change, but based it's cheap build quality, I couldn't. On the other hand, I would not hesitate to recommend a LM Wave or Charge to anyone who needs a tool for serious work. This series of multitools has a great and proven track record and are really well thought out.

If my current PAD becomes lost, stolen, or damaged, I do not think I would replace it with another PAD. If you guys lost your PAD, would you replace it? If, yes, why?

Let's also, at this point in the challenge, ask a similar question: If you could own just one multitool, which multitool would you choose?  For me, the answer would be a Rebar (first) or Charge Al/Ti (close second). I love the Super Tool, but it's a bit big for EDC for me. I love the Spirit and that might be a recommendation as well.

[Wspeed]

For me it’s a no to replacing the PAD if it was lost or stolen
I would only replace the PAD if SOG would
start using better quality checks to make sure
The tools work as they should
Q/C is my biggest problem with SOG
But I can’t fault SOG for their C/S

[gerleatherberman]

Thank you for the kind words, Nix! 

Doesn't a Rebar have tool clumping? All three of mine do. Two tools (saw and file ) are awful to open as well on my Rebars. I usually chew up a fingernail if I'm not careful. The PAD does have clumping, but I find that necessary to get to some of the implements (such as the 1/4" drive and LG. Flat driver). I have used the nail ramps near the tangs, but the tools clump that way anyhow, so I skip the metaphorical middle-man and just grab at the easier tools (blades on one side and file/saw on the other) and select the one I need. The PAD spring system is quite smooth and makes it easy for me. Was the PAD supposed to be advertised as non-clumping?

Anyway, on to the philosophical(I am going to call them that for no true reason. Haha) questions!
1)-from Nix

If my current PAD becomes lost, stolen, or damaged, I do not think I would replace it with another PAD. If you guys lost your PAD, would you replace it? If, yes, why?

Yes, but for a different reason altogether. I need one for my SOG collection.
If I weren't a collector, I can honestly say, I would not likely buy it again. If it were $20, then yes I wouls, otherwise there are too many great tools out there. Even from SOG, the PowerLock is a tool I'd buy again, in those circumstances.
2)-from Nix

Let's also, at this point in the challenge, ask a similar question: If you could own just one multitool, which multitool would you choose?

LM Surge with all of the goodies. For my line of work and prefrences, there isn't anything remotely as good as the LM surge.

I really like what TP said.

As a tool itself it might not be at all bad  and some things are innovative and admirable, but the fact that is the latest SOG and that they are very aware of the previous issues makes these mistakes harder to forgive now 

I am looking at SOG's future in a similar fashion to what happened to Gerber, Remington, or Smith and Wesson with their tools and knives: 
20 years ago I'd have bought 7 out of 10 of their products, recommended the other 2, and ignore 1 of them. 
Nowadays it's the opposite, I'd buy 1 out of 10 of their catalog, recommend just 2 and ignore the other 7.

He has shown the position of not leaning toward any absolute viewpoint. I acknowledge he implies that could change, but also like the fact he is open to trying SOG again if the tool looks to be good.

When someone uses absolutes,  the burden of responsibility is negated. An absolute thinker goes to a restaurant and gets a bad meal. They just leave and never go back again. That is called passing the buck. The next people who go there will have wasted their money in a vicious cycle of buck passing. Only when everyone who would have ever eaten there or heard about it had decided not to go back will the restaurant know something is terribly wrong.  The responsible approach would entail, the first person who got a bad meal, going to the manager and telling them why it was bad.. That allows the restaurant to possibly fix the original problem, lessening the likelyhood others will waste their time/money there.
In short, saying "I'll never again" is kind of an easy way out and to pass the Buck.
As far as SOG goes, would should avoid buying or outright recommending the PAD specifically(although I do recommend it to collectors). Moving on, I think we should not discount the company as a whole,  but we should discount the particular tool (or the qc issues with it).
Truth be told, most MT makers have made worse stuff than the PAD, so I keep that in mind.
When a new MT enthusiast reads an absolute statement about a brand as a whole, then they may not understand that is was one file on one tool and a can opener that made you disown the company as a whole.
With that logic, I should never buy another Vic product, because of W's bent corkscrew or my mag lenses popping out.
We both know it isn't that simple.
Your comments about never trying SOG again will forever be in the search results for SOG tools. People who don't know better may never try a good SOG product, because of your one bad file and our lame can openers.
Absolute positions are very bad, especially within a species that generally has a herd mentality. Once one sees a problem, the rest think they see it to. I'd like people to not buy the PAD(as it stands, but I think it isn't bad), and spend the same money on a PowerLock instead if they can't reason out buying a PAD. I wish people to keep trying SOG, but don't buy the MTs with known issues until the issues have been rectified.  Recommend the proven models in SOG's line when someone shows interest in SOG.

For the record: I like the PAD as a whole. The only problem mine has is an inferior can opener. Everything else is has performed satisfactorily so far. Final judgement on the PAD pending completion of the challenge.

[Wspeed]

I totally agree with your for the record statement
And I am the same as you with giving companies a fair chance
If we would all listen to the problems mentioned on this forum
About any MT we wouldn’t have bought any of them

So yes the can opener isn’t the best
Same with the file but on most it does work
I am not giving up on SOG
But will be watching to see if they are going
to improve on their Q/C before buying any more SOG products
As I do agree with Nix that if you call
something a file than it should work as a file
To me looking at all the pics of the file they
are all slightly different with the depth of the cut
If you look at the thin side of the file on my PAD
It’s only just been touched by the tooling in the factory

But when I checked the file on the PA
The depth of the cut is deeper
not great but better than on the PAD

And this is the same with the cutting edge of the can opener
So it could be a simple fix that the
tooling at the factory needs to be set up properly 

[gerleatherberman]

Thank you for the reply, w.

I think it boils down to the fact WE are the MT experts. Our responsibility is to make an objective list of faults. But, with that, also mention the good things.

I support Nix's right to never buy another SOG. I understand fully the reasons as well.
However, having said that, I am trying to convey that the PAD isn't THAT bad, so potential collectors/users will have both sides of the metaphorical coin.
I hope I am not coming off as rude or argumentative though. Please tell me if I am. 

[Nix]

Doesn't a Rebar have tool clumping? All three of mine do. Two tools (saw and file ) are awful to open as well on my Rebars. I usually chew up a fingernail if I'm not careful. The PAD does have clumping, but I find that necessary to get to some of the implements (such as the 1/4" drive and LG. Flat driver). I have used the nail ramps near the tangs, but the tools clump that way anyhow, so I skip the metaphorical middle-man and just grab at the easier tools (blades on one side and file/saw on the other) and select the one I need. The PAD spring system is quite smooth and makes it easy for me. Was the PAD supposed to be advertised as non-clumping?

Yes, indeed. One of my criticisms of the Rebar to be sure. Once I handled the Vic Spirit I was spoiled.    It doesn't matter that the PAD wasn't advertised as being a tool-clumper or not a tool-clumper. It's an annoying trait. It's annoying in the Rebar, and it's annoying in the PAD. Note that this isn't much of an issue with true OHT's like the Wave or Charge or Surge.

An absolute thinker goes to a restaurant and gets a bad meal. They just leave and never go back again. That is called passing the buck. The next people who go there will have wasted their money in a vicious cycle of buck passing. Only when everyone who would have ever eaten there or heard about it had decided not to go back will the restaurant know something is terribly wrong.  The responsible approach would entail, the first person who got a bad meal, going to the manager and telling them why it was bad.. That allows the restaurant to possibly fix the original problem, lessening the likelyhood others will waste their time/money there.
In short, saying "I'll never again" is kind of an easy way out and to pass the Buck.

This would seem to be it's own form of absolute thinking. If I eat at a restaurant and don't like the meal I may offer some feedback ("It was a bit bland.") or I may say nothing and just not return. I may also pass on my negative impressions to other potential dinners. There are many factors in how I approach the situation. I don't think this is 'passing the buck'. There may be some people who do like the food or service. But, I know that if enough people do not return to a restaurant, and word gets out that the food is bad, or a restaurant is not recommended, that that restaurant will fail. Restaurants fail everyday. If, in any business, you develop a bad reputation, you will have a hard time succeeding. Many companies elicit feedback for that very reason. Has SOG sent you a questionnaire asking for feedback? Me neither. 

As far as SOG goes, why would I risk buying another bad product when I have had a good experience with 7 Leatherman's and 1 Victorinox? (Gerber, not so much, but right now, if I had to chose between Gerber and SOG, I'd probably go with Gerber.) Why would I do SOG the favor of spending my time providing feedback directly to them? What? They sell me a defective tool and then expect me to do the QC and testing they should have done in the first place? I guess that's one way to save money--use your market for R&D and testing. That will only work though if the market sticks around. The burden is on SOG to provide a quality tool that builds customer loyalty, not on the consumer to help SOG do their work properly. And SOG can always visit this excellent forum and gather up customer impressions if they are actually interested.

Do I have an obligation to the public to provide feedback to SOG and not 'pass the buck'? That's an interesting question. Perhaps it would be more responsible of me to do as you say. However, I am providing frank and honest opinions here. These are only my opinions and do not constitute an absolute truth, but are open to anyone who cares to search for them. Do YouTube reviewers have an obligation to provide feedback to the manufacturers of the products they review? I don't know.

For me, some of this comes down to my perception of the company's attitude. I have avoided buying a Vic SAK with a mag lens because I do have reservations about their optics and the durability of the magnifier. But, my perception is that Vic does strive to make a quality tool. Their commitment to quality comes through with almost every knife and tool. SOG on the other hand has a reputation for mutlitools of a lower quality. They don't seem to be concerned with refining or improving the quality of their tools or their reputation. That this PAD is the newest in their line only reinforces that perception and is a real missed opportunity in my opinion. My impression, and it's just my impression, is that SOG is focused on marketing a cheaply made tool with gimmicks like compound leverage. They developed an interesting idea and are hoping that the novelty will carry their sales. I don't think the quality will. Since my perception is that the company doesn't actually care about their products, I find it hard to care about the company and I'm not inclined to provide feedback to them. With Victorinox, my perception is the opposite, I have taken the trouble to provide feedback and make recommendations.

I don't think it's fair of you to fault me for turning my back on SOG at this point. This is my reaction and I own it. I'm not saying it is right or that it makes me a good person (you sure seem like a good and kind person and an excellent role model.). Perhaps I'm letting my disappointment get the better of me, but at this point, I just don't care about SOG enough to be motivated to be better than I am.

Moving on, I think we should not discount the company as a whole,  but we should discount the particular tool (or the qc issues with it).

Fair enough. I did have a SOG Seal Pup knife that I liked. It was a good knife. At the same time, I have to question the commitment of SOG to quality if they let a tool like this carry on their previous mistakes. "One bad apple......"  There are many good knife makers out there, I don't need to choose a SOG. And now, I probably won't.

When a new MT enthusiast reads an absolute statement about a brand as a whole, then they may not understand that is was one file on one tool and a can opener that made you disown the company as a whole.
With that logic, I should never buy another Vic product, because of W's bent corkscrew or my mag lenses popping out.
We both know it isn't that simple.
Your comments about never trying SOG again will forever be in the search results for SOG tools. People who don't know better may never try a good SOG product, because of your one bad file and our lame can openers.

Well, we are seeing a trend here, not just one odd corkscrew that made it passed a usually rigorous QC process. And my list of concerns is longer than yours:

1. The sheath is poorly designed. It gives the impression that no one ever bother to put the knife in the sheath to see if it worked. While the sheath technically MOLLE compatible, it actually provides only one point of attachment and that is a bit sketchy. I think Wspeed has noted that his velcro is wearing out. Mine hasn't been used as much but the velcro feels a bit weak already.

2. The "Chisel" isn't a chisel. It isn't sharp. It may prove to be an adequate large flat driver or pry tool. I haven't tried it yet.

3. The file is just crap. Cutting aluminum is nice, but that is not a practical use for me for a file.

4. The can opener works, but is terrible. Poorly designed and poorly made.

5. The serrations on the serrated blade will be problematic to sharpen. The blade has worked fine, so far, but I foresee difficulty in resharpening it.

6. The medium driver on my cap lifter is rounded off. I have successfully used it, but I think this will be prone to slipping with heavier use. A nice squared off drive is just safer and more effective.

7. The saw works, but it is short for the space in the handle. It looks to me like they could have given me a saw that is 5-6mm longer, and therefore more effective

8. The Jeweler's driver on mine had a poor grind with a burr. I used a diamond stone to clean it up and I think it's a bit better now.

9. The springs that activate the locks appear to be flimsy and fragile (I thought I read that someone had their lock springs break already. I might be wrong.). This is a chief point of concern for me, and one of the reasons I question the tool's durability.

Some of these observations are either unfounded or are of a nit-picking nature. But they start to add up to a very negative impression overall, especially when we have a record of a few MTo'ers returning their PADs within a few days of receiving them.

This has been a great discussion, and, even if you haven't persuaded me to be nicer to SOG, I do like the way you think and your fundamental consideration. I promise to stay open minded as we continue the challenge. 

[Wspeed]

The SOG PAD is not a bad tool
With just a few tweaks it would be a great MT
But this change has to come from SOG 

I gave Chris@SOG the link to this thread
But he hasn’t signed in to MTO since 11th of May
That doesn’t mean he hasn’t been on here
But would like to think he has had a look
It would have been nice if someone from SOG
Could say something about the PAD and what they think 

[ThePeacent]

this thread just got really interesting 
This is just again my opinion

to address you all in general,
I also think that SOG believed in putting out the best quality and top notch product until the 2000s, when they saw Gerber's and Kershaws new success with Chinese imports and outsourced products, 

they thought it was a clever move to drive production overseas and lower the price and QC standards to make a quick buck, reaching a wider audience (as opposed to their more serious buyers and aficionados from before) and "Wall-Marteing" their products like Gerber et al.

this brought up really crappy products (not that they didn't have those before like the PowerDuo, etc.) but in this case and unlike with the older failures, they said "well let's carry on with it, if it sells then great" and decided to "accept that a few will be sent back to us by more expert and less observant consumers" but most of their newfound customers couldn't or wouldn't catch most flaws as they were not really into the hobby and spending money on this kind of product 

In the few instances when it was blatantly obvious or dangerous they retired or recalled the product (like Gerber's Parang machetes breaking etc.)  but otherwise they kept sending out cheap stuff for the most part trying to cut costs here and there (QC, finish and details, tolerances, steel and materials quality) and this is an ongoing thing that is going to hurt when it goes "BANG!" 

Most of the older SOG fans and followers are deceived, the newcomers haven't seen any better than they have now so they believe it's and was the standard for SOG. 

And finally I also think that SOG is excusing many of these flaws and problems with their "We have the Compound Leverage!  " but their last patent for it expires this year, and if it happens like happened with LM and the expiring of Gerber's flick patent (giving immediate birth to the OHT) or Benchmade's AXIS patent (that expired this year and Hogue and others are already putting out folders with the lock) the competitors will soon copy and even improve the idea, 

to the point of doing better Compound Leverage tools that the ones from the company that invented them 

[Dutch_Tooler]

Day 15

I promise, I'll read the very interesting discussion above in due time and may comment as well. For the moment you'll awl have to do with the pic below, in which I used the jeweler screwdriver to great effect to open a small remote control transmitter and replace the battery. That Phillips screw was little, and recessed, so no chance for any of the bits that come with the PAD.

[Nix]

Nice use, D_T! 

This is just again my opinion to address you all in general, I also think that SOG believed in putting out the best quality and top notch product until the 2000s, when they saw Gerber's and Kershaws new success with Chinese imports and outsourced products, 

they thought it was a clever move to drive production overseas and lower the price and QC standards to make a quick buck, reaching a wider audience (as opposed to their more serious buyers and aficionados from before) and "Wall-Marteing" their products like Gerber et al.

El P, I think you made my point better than I did. 

My first SOG was the Paratool pictured below. I think it bought this tool in '92 or '93. Definitely before '94. Note the 'USA' stamp indicating point of manufacture.



Aside from the bit drivers, the Paratool gives the PAd a good run for it's money. Well, especially for the money. Every single tool on the Paratool is better designed and made than it's counterpart on the PAD. The drivers have crisp edges, the knife has a better geometry (for me), the file is an actual file that works, the can opener is quite good and reminiscent of the old GI field knife style can opener, and the reamer is nice and pokey.

My one big criticism with the Paratool is the serrated blade. I've never used the serrated blade because these serrations look like a real smurf-fest to sharpen. So I leave the serrations sharp and have saved the blade for 'emergency use'.

I know some people have had difficulty with the angulation of the pliers head, but this has proven to be a real advantage for me once or twice.

Overall the SOG Paratool is a really nice tool and it replaced my Leatherman PST. I never looked back, really. The paratool now rides in my bicycle's tail bag where it gets used for small repair jobs and odd uses.

However, that was 1993 (or '94, I think..... ). In the last two decades, it would seem that a lot has changed. I would now be unlikely to replace this Paratool with a recently manufactured Paratool. I don't think the quality is as good as it used to be. Kinda sad, really.   

[Dutch_Tooler]

Thanks Nix one has to make do, at times.

Day 15, part deux

That PE blade is sufficiently sharp...

[Nix]

Day 10:

OK, I'm afraid you guys are going to think I have an axe to grind........but I do! 



In the above photo is pictured the PAD, a standard single-cut mill file, and my 'abuse axe'. This is the axe that I use for all those nasty jobs I don't want to do with my good axe. It gets used for everything from chopping ice to chopping into dirt to clear tree roots. Despite the rank abuse, it does pretty well.

I suspect the steel is relatively soft, which gives it it's resilient qualities, although it's hard enough to chip (you can see a chip if you look closely and cross your eyes.)

So I first tried the PAD's file to sharpen the axe. The single cut side did nothing. The file just skated over the edge and barely scratched it. I could have filed away all day and achieved nothing. This is a clean FAIL.

Just for grins, I tried using the double-cut side. I normall just use a single-cut to touch up the edge of this axe, but I didn't think the PAD's double-cut file could do any harm. And, mush to my surprise, it did scratch the metal edge a bit. I could see some small bits of metal being removed, the edge became brighter, and, I swear I'm not making this up, the edge did seem to be improved a bit.



Now, this took a long time to achieve and I don't think I could actually get good edge with this tool, but it did do something, which is more than I expected. I don't think I'd be able to remove an actualy chip in the blade with this, but, who knows? Perhaps with enough time it might serve the purpose. And this test does imply that the file was hardened to some degree (which I had begun to doubt).

As a counter-point, I used the mill file to actually sharpen the edge. The metal flew off in lovely fine slivers and I was able to reshape the edge fairly quickly. With a little care, I was able to raise a burr on the edge and then gently remove said burr. This resulted in a fairly sharp axe (not as sharp as a stone-sharpened axe, but a decent wood chopping edge.).

The contrast was huge. This is obviously to be expected since the file is dedicated to this purpose and much longer in length. But, it does illustrate the severe limitations of the PAD's file.

I'll try to find some additional tasks to use the file on as the challenge progresses. 

[Nix]

Day 10 (continued):

Used the 'chisel' as a flat driver to adjust the tension on the lever cap screw on my Jack plane.




The 'chisel' was a bit small for this task, but it worked perfectly well. 

[gerleatherberman]

Nix,
I haven't been able to read your reply yet (I am at work), but an looking forward to it. I did, however, see the axe pic and read only the cross cut side worked on your PAD file. I am not surprised it did, but am not surprised it was lackluster either. The single cut side of mine does function, although not as well as the cross cut side.

Here is my daily photo of the PAD with a few of my go to files at work. I tried to clean them before the photo, but one of them is just dark from age.
Will do some catch up reading this evening. 

[Nix]

Hey, G-man, no pressure here. We're just having fun. And there is still plenty of time left in the challenge.