Will Vic make a custom model if there are enough orders?

[Mechanickal]

It's a hoax!

Or a daydream

[ulzhan]

Yes we can! [make it happen]

Live the dream, build that knife!!

[Syem]

Bad news guys, although there is a possibility of a light at the end of the tunnel...

Their "standard" regulations for "custom" knives are 
- 5 available colours: Silver, Red, Black, Blue and Green
- All other colors according to the Pantone color range (special colors) will only be produced for official Victorinox editions.
- For all 4 normal colors, it is mandatory to print a customer logo or name onto the scale or to have it etched onto the blade.
- No possibility of special numbering or lettering (which suggest the character of a limited edition)
- Scales with different color combinations are not permitted
- Special tool configurations not part of the standard assortment are not permitted
- Minimum order amount: 100 pieces

The VSAKCS knives are an "every year special from an official partner not possible for other clients".

Which means if we want a really custom knife we'll have to become an official partner.
I honestly don't think that this is out of our reach for 2 reasons:
- SAKWiki is the #1 resource on SAKs
- I know a guy who knows a guy who's pretty high up in Victorinox (possibly one of the E if I remember correctly)

I would be more than happy to try and get an official partnership discussion going on with Victorinox. The questions are...
- Is Grant ok with this?
- MTo, SAKWiki or Swiss Army Knights? (We have a stronger case with SAKWiki but we could argue that "Swiss Army Knights" is behind the wiki... or maybe have both written on the knives)
- Yearly limited editions?
- Numbered?
- How many?
- For who? (Who's eligible to pre-order one?)
- Who's paying?
- Who's responsible?

I feel like getting an official partnership for SAKWiki would be extremely beneficial... we may get access to some information currently out of our normal reach regarding tool history... maybe Wenger history...

Edit: Fixed a sentence that was messed up 

[ulzhan]

Hi Syem,

that's great news.

I think it would be beneficial to both sides. Especiallyere provide a lot of information to potential SAK-buyers.

 

[shadowrider]

Way to go, Syem! 
The regulations they told you about seem to be the ones that apply to common advertising knives (probably mostly used on Classics). Having special custom models built, like VSAKCS has, would most likely have different rules altogether, when it comes to minimum order number etc.

That said, regardless of the custom knives possibility, I think becoming an official partner would be great, especially for the sake of SAKwiki itself, since as you said, would likely open up to a lot of additional information. 

[Mechanickal]

I'm friends with an Elsener family member on Facebook who is head of custumer support.

If you need anything to be asked to him, let me know.
If you're on Facebook yourself, I can get you in contact with him too...

[Syph007]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

[glenfiddich1983]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Ah, so the width of the pins is the limiting factor? I would have never guessed that!

[ThePeacent]

we (you) did a PX Mt-Org LE last year,     this is the next logical step! 
 I'm all in for one and think it would be beneficial for everyone to make a partnership 

[Syem]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Thanks for chiming in Syph!

Do you mean the spring tension is too great on 93mm knives for rivets to get any longer than they are in a PX with the currently used rivet diameter?

They make much thicker 111mm knives though... do these have less tension?

Couldn't they use slightly stronger rivets or would these become too hard to peen?

[Don Pablo]

I think Syph is saying that their machines and jigs are not capable of assembling thicker Alox in their current configuration... But I wonder why that is the case?

[Mechanickal]

Pabs will peen those 100 Farmer X's by hand then. No prob!

[Don Pablo]

Speculation: I think I remember something about they way Victorinox loads up the tools and springs on the SAK while it is on the machine.... The tools are clicked into place with the spring and tensioned before the next liner goes on to support the pins, thus the possibility of bent pins? 

[Don Pablo]

Pabs will peen those 100 Farmer X's by hand then. No prob!

And Mechy will do the other 900! 

[Syph007]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Thanks for chiming in Syph!

Do you mean the spring tension is too great on 93mm knives for rivets to get any longer than they are in a PX with the currently used rivet diameter?

They make much thicker 111mm knives though... do these have less tension?

Couldn't they use slightly stronger rivets or would these become too hard to peen?

Thats my guess ya spring tension.  I can go wider with hardened steel pivots but the soft nickel silver bends with that much force.  The easiest modification they could do, to go wider would be to use full size liners.  The 93mmm liners really provide zero support as they are so thin.  Look at the thick full liners adjacent to pliers layers in 91 for what I mean.  They are thick and large and support that strong pliers backspring.

[Ron Who]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Thanks for chiming in Syph!

Do you mean the spring tension is too great on 93mm knives for rivets to get any longer than they are in a PX with the currently used rivet diameter?

They make much thicker 111mm knives though... do these have less tension?

Couldn't they use slightly stronger rivets or would these become too hard to peen?

Thats my guess ya spring tension.  I can go wider with hardened steel pivots but the soft nickel silver bends with that much force.  The easiest modification they could do, to go wider would be to use full size liners.  The 93mmm liners really provide zero support as they are so thin.  Look at the thick full liners adjacent to pliers layers in 91 for what I mean.  They are thick and large and support that strong pliers backspring.

I had the same questions, thanks for clearing this up.

Still, one would think a five layer alox shouldn´t be a problem for a factory that builds SwissChamps and even larger models.
My guess is they know perfectly well how to do it, they just don´t have the machinery.

[pomsbz]

Anyone else want a return of the Settler, perhaps in red?

[Ron Who]

Why settle for a Settler? They should be able to do a 2-layer 4-blade knife that I named Swiss Congress.

(The pic is a mock up, like my previous one)

[Syph007]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Thanks for chiming in Syph!

Do you mean the spring tension is too great on 93mm knives for rivets to get any longer than they are in a PX with the currently used rivet diameter?

They make much thicker 111mm knives though... do these have less tension?

Couldn't they use slightly stronger rivets or would these become too hard to peen?

Thats my guess ya spring tension.  I can go wider with hardened steel pivots but the soft nickel silver bends with that much force.  The easiest modification they could do, to go wider would be to use full size liners.  The 93mmm liners really provide zero support as they are so thin.  Look at the thick full liners adjacent to pliers layers in 91 for what I mean.  They are thick and large and support that strong pliers backspring.

I had the same questions, thanks for clearing this up.

Still, one would think a five layer alox shouldn´t be a problem for a factory that builds SwissChamps and even larger models.
My guess is they know perfectly well how to do it, they just don´t have the machinery.

I bet a Swiss champ would have the same problem if you had then same no support liners.

[Syem]

I went to see my contact who gave me the name of a person who should be capable of setting this up for us. The issue is I'm no sakwiki admin... Nor the owner... I definitely don't have the authority to get in touch with this guy on behalf of SAKWiki or Swiss Army Knights...

Who could give me his or her blessing to start talking to this guy on behalf of "all of us"? Should I PM Grant?

[hiraethus]

Should I PM Grant?

Yes.

[Syem]

You won't see a factory farmer x.  They barely got the rivets in for the pioneer x and they still get bent.  And the pioneer x was only a tiny but thicker than a farmer.   They've reached the limit on width with their current assembly technique. 

Factory special runs definitely seem to be more of a know the right person situation then official orders.

Thanks for chiming in Syph!

Do you mean the spring tension is too great on 93mm knives for rivets to get any longer than they are in a PX with the currently used rivet diameter?

They make much thicker 111mm knives though... do these have less tension?

Couldn't they use slightly stronger rivets or would these become too hard to peen?

Thats my guess ya spring tension.  I can go wider with hardened steel pivots but the soft nickel silver bends with that much force.  The easiest modification they could do, to go wider would be to use full size liners.  The 93mmm liners really provide zero support as they are so thin.  Look at the thick full liners adjacent to pliers layers in 91 for what I mean.  They are thick and large and support that strong pliers backspring.

I had the same questions, thanks for clearing this up.

Still, one would think a five layer alox shouldn´t be a problem for a factory that builds SwissChamps and even larger models.
My guess is they know perfectly well how to do it, they just don´t have the machinery.

I bet a Swiss champ would have the same problem if you had then same no support liners.

So they could do thicker 93mm knives using the same rivets if they just added thicker spacers than what they currently have in that size? That doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem...

[Don Pablo]

I bet a Swiss champ would have the same problem if you had then same no support liners.

So they could do thicker 93mm knives using the same rivets if they just added thicker spacers than what they currently have in that size? That doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem...

It might be more that the spacers/liners are not “deep” enough. They pretty much follow the outline of the spring, and if you look at the 91mm liners, they extend above the spring, sometimes all the way to the top. This might be providing more support.
Though I do wonder if it’s possible for Vic to make a thick alox SAK if they double up on the liners. 

[Syem]

Should I PM Grant?

Yes.

Done

It might be more that the spacers/liners are not “deep” enough. They pretty much follow the outline of the spring, and if you look at the 91mm liners, they extend above the spring, sometimes all the way to the top. This might be providing more support.
Though I do wonder if it’s possible for Vic to make a thick alox SAK if they double up on the liners. 

Aah right! Never thought about that aspect of the innards having such an impact on the overall strength of the structure. It's even easier for them to fix it than I thought! They can "just" make other shapes of 93mm liners. No need to change the material or metal sheet thickness..

[hiraethus]

Voting is still open for a few days.

[Ron Who]

I changed my vote, from Other to Farmer X

[Ron Who]

I would love to see a rerun of the black Wilderness though.

(SAKWIKi pic)

[Huntsman]

There's a very strong vote for the Vagabond here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,77462.msg1703251.html#msg1703251

It gets my vote - I'd go for red Alox to match our PX

Very interesting conversation on the construction stuff - Thanks Syph and all 

And well done to our local Swiss MTo'er for pushing this forward.

[Nix]

Great ideas. Keep 'em coming.   

 

[Nix]

We need a bit more interest in this.

Perhaps a fresh thread.......