DIY diamond file?

[ddogu]

Can a regular file be converted into a diamond file by applying acid on it maybe? Or even a piece of metal of sufficient hardness can be made a diamond file this way?

Diamond files are said to be coatings but they really do look like a texture OF the metal itself. Anybody has any ideas? 

[hiraethus]

The diamond layer is a coating applied to the file.  I think it's some kind of electroplating that contains diamond or tungsten carbide particles.  It should be possible to get someone to plate some material for you, but whether they'd actually be willing to do it or not is a different matter.

[ddogu]

The diamond layer is a coating applied to the file.  I think it's some kind of electroplating that contains diamond or tungsten carbide particles.  It should be possible to get someone to plate some material for you, but whether they'd actually be willing to do it or not is a different matter.

And with this reply, sir, my hopes and dreams just went down the drain... 

[hiraethus]

I do that a lot.  Sorry.

What was it you wanted to do?  Maybe there's a diamond file already out there you can modify to suit?

[ddogu]

I do that a lot.  Sorry.

What was it you wanted to do?  Maybe there's a diamond file already out there you can modify to suit?

Well, I LOVE LM Wave's file and would like to have my SOG and SAKs have kinda the same.  The way those files are now (both wide sides have the same/almost the same grit), it's a waste of space. A diamond addition would increase the functionality and give me the freedom and flexibility to pick ANY of my tools and not search for the Wave everytime I eat my finger nails and need the diamond file in order to return to humanity 

[Sam Lim]

I do that a lot.  Sorry.

What was it you wanted to do?  Maybe there's a diamond file already out there you can modify to suit?

Well, I LOVE LM Wave's file and would like to have my SOG and SAKs have kinda the same.  The way those files are now (both wide sides have the same/almost the same grit), it's a waste of space. A diamond addition would increase the functionality and give me the freedom and flexibility to pick ANY of my tools and not search for the Wave everytime I eat my finger nails and need the diamond file in order to return to humanity 

Lol.. That's why Loki is here. I understand what you mean. I once scored a crazy deal for 5 wave file on ebay. They have now found their way modded into other tools. You could explore finding a way to carry the surge file. Mod it into a small folder or something. That way, that can be carried with any tool you choose. And they are cheap to replace. Same reason people carry a Micra or something similar. They basically doesn't care anymore if a multitool have scissors on board or not. That opens yourself to a world of option.

[Vidar]

Like Hiraethus said the big picture is having the surface submerged in a slurry of diamonds while electroplating the same surface - usually with nickel I believe. The diamonds at the surface will be locked in place as the nickel layer forms around them.

Electroplating in itself is fairly DIY friendly, but the practical details of diamond coating are closely guarded industry secrets among those who offer it. Give it a go and tell us if you find the right spot? That would be very interesting

[ddogu]

Like Hiraethus said the big picture is having the surface submerged in a slurry of diamonds while electroplating the same surface - usually with nickel I believe. The diamonds at the surface will be locked in place as the nickel layer forms around them.

Electroplating in itself is fairly DIY friendly, but the practical details of diamond coating are closely guarded industry secrets among those who offer it. Give it a go and tell us if you find the right spot? That would be very interesting

Hmmm... If that is the case, maybe it would be easier (and the final result would be of much better quality) to go with the mechanical approach. Like, getting an off-the-shelf diamond file and modifying it so it would fit in a MT. There are cheap alternative, e.g.: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180605230501&SearchText=diamond+file

[Vidar]

Hmmm... If that is the case, maybe it would be easier (and the final result would be of much better quality) to go with the mechanical approach. Like, getting an off-the-shelf diamond file and modifying it so it would fit in a MT. There are cheap alternative, e.g.: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180605230501&SearchText=diamond+file

That sounds very pragmatic, sensible and solution oriented.

I was selfishly hoping you would do all the hard work of finding the secrets of DIY diamond coating 

[ddogu]

Hmmm... If that is the case, maybe it would be easier (and the final result would be of much better quality) to go with the mechanical approach. Like, getting an off-the-shelf diamond file and modifying it so it would fit in a MT. There are cheap alternative, e.g.: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180605230501&SearchText=diamond+file

That sounds very pragmatic, sensible and solution oriented.

I was selfishly hoping you would do all the hard work of finding the secrets of DIY diamond coating 

hehe  frankly, I was thinking about doing that, too. Though, chemistry is not my strong suite.  Finding the right type of metal, the nickel coating, diamonds (where on Earth does one get diamond particles??), these all looked like an unsurmountable obstacle for my skills and experience now... 
 

[Vidar]

(where on Earth does one get diamond particles??)

Take a big diamond and crush it? Scrape diamonds of a diamond file?

I guess it will take a lot more diamonds to make a slurry than you will actually use. Thus even if the process was clear enough it seems unlikely to be economical for DIY of a single piece or two.

(I still want to know though).

[ddogu]

(where on Earth does one get diamond particles??)

Take a big diamond and crush it? Scrape diamonds of a diamond file?

I guess it will take a lot more diamonds to make a slurry than you will actually use. Thus even if the process was clear enough it seems unlikely to be economical for DIY of a single piece or two.

(I still want to know though).

Okay... We have a saying here: "To put watermelon shells into the donkey's mind". Donkeys enjoy eating watermelon shells a lot, hence the saying. So the meaning is "to put an idea to one's mind that he/she cannot let go and becomes curious/obsessed with that idea". This is what you did to me with those to last comments )

After reading your previous comment I googled diamond dust and apparently it is cheap stuff! The ones I found probably are synthetic but so what? And you say electroplating is DIY-friendly, so eheh dunno, this whole thing might not be impossible at all, after all    

[Vidar]

Okay... We have a saying here: "To put watermelon shells into the donkey's mind". Donkeys enjoy eating watermelon shells a lot, hence the saying. So the meaning is "to put an idea to one's mind that he/she cannot let go and becomes curious/obsessed with that idea". This is what you did to me with those to last comments )

After reading your previous comment I googled diamond dust and apparently it is cheap stuff! The ones I found probably are synthetic but so what? And you say electroplating is DIY-friendly, so eheh dunno, this whole thing might not be impossible at all, after all    

Mission accomplished then And sorry? 

Seriously though, that would be interesting. Maybe a two step process might be easier - first getting some diamonds temporarily stuck to the surface, and then plating over them? Oh no, those monkey brains are contagious - I can feel the infection growing on me.

[ddogu]

Okay... We have a saying here: "To put watermelon shells into the donkey's mind". Donkeys enjoy eating watermelon shells a lot, hence the saying. So the meaning is "to put an idea to one's mind that he/she cannot let go and becomes curious/obsessed with that idea". This is what you did to me with those to last comments )

After reading your previous comment I googled diamond dust and apparently it is cheap stuff! The ones I found probably are synthetic but so what? And you say electroplating is DIY-friendly, so eheh dunno, this whole thing might not be impossible at all, after all    

Mission accomplished then And sorry? 

Seriously though, that would be interesting. Maybe a two step process might be easier - first getting some diamonds temporarily stuck to the surface, and then plating over them? Oh no, those monkey brains are contagious - I can feel the infection growing on me.

  So it's two donkeys now then )

As a side note, according to this site https://www.wonkeedonkeetools.co.uk/files/what-is-a-diamond-file/ tungsten carbide can also be used instead of real diamonds.

But OUCH! I just read that galvanising requires a current of 1200-2500 Amperes (( Are you sure this process is DIY-friendly? 

[Vidar]

But OUCH! I just read that galvanising requires a current of 1200-2500 Amperes (( Are you sure this process is DIY-friendly? 

From the bottom pool of my brain droppings I seem to remember that amperage requirements has a fairly direct connection to the surface area you want to cover, and likely also how much time you are prepared to spend. For a tiny thing like a file I'm thinking car or phone charger range, or possibly an old computer power supply. Basically some 1 to 10 amp or thereabouts?

A quick google thing shows up a fair bit of DIY nickel plating so I guess that part might be covered already.

(Edit: I wasn't thinking in terms of a industrial production line plating facility here You might be more ambitious than me though? )

[Vidar]

The tungsten carbide alternative was interesting. It is so heavy that one might possible just submerge the surface in question horizontally, dross on some carbide, plate some, dross some more, plate some and so on.

[pomsbz]

This might sound stupid but how hard would it be to mod a file from a Wave? There's a guy on here who sells parts from LM. Might be a lot easier way of doing it.

[ddogu]

This might sound stupid but how hard would it be to mod a file from a Wave? There's a guy on here who sells parts from LM. Might be a lot easier way of doing it.

Well, I wanted to go that way, too but you know Vidar. He and his watermelon shells got me...

[ddogu]

The tungsten carbide alternative was interesting. It is so heavy that one might possible just submerge the surface in question horizontally, dross on some carbide, plate some, dross some more, plate some and so on.

I was thinking keeping the steel horizontally with diamond dust sprinkled on during the elekctroplating process. Though, how to make sure that the diamond particles simply do not fall down and are embedded, held firmly in the steel? 

[gregozedobe]

Well, I wanted to go that way, too but you know Vidar. He and his watermelon shells got me...

          

[Vidar]

Well, I wanted to go that way, too but you know Vidar. He and his watermelon shells got me...

Again, I'm sooo sorry! I didn't even know me and my melons had such impact.. 

I was thinking keeping the steel horizontally with diamond dust sprinkled on during the elekctroplating process. Though, how to make sure that the diamond particles simply do not fall down and are embedded, held firmly in the steel? 

I don't think there are any risks of the diamonds or tungsten getting into the steel itself? And hopefully the plating will attach only to the steel and other plating, so the diamond or tungsten particles will be surrounded but keep sticking up. If not one might have to use a file to get to the file? 

I think I have most of the stuff needed to try laying around here somewhere. Should have an acid bath for cleaning too, but not quite sure where I put it. Plating to hold stuff might need to be thicker and stronger than plating just for weather proofing or decoration, so that might require some differences in approach. I guess spare time and some nickel anodes or ready nickel solution is what I miss to be able to try. 

[Vidar]

A little water melon shrinking update. After some more research into this it seems to be a fair chance that diamond files in multi-tools are made by vacuum brazing rather than electroplating. (Electroplating giving more aggressive files, but are also more prone to wear while filing metals and the like).

I have a vacuum thingy, and a brazing capable oven, but not a vacuum brazing oven...   

I might still get some diamond powder and try electroplating it just for the smurf of it. If it is 70-90% as good as bought that might be nice enough - especially as one should be able to redo the diamond layer many times as it gets worn. I'll put it on the rather long to do list.


 

[Vidar]

There is more than a fair chance this will be an spectacular failure but I've gone ahead and ordered some tungsten carbide file grit material. It should have a few less worries than diamond grit. My first (very) basic plan of attack is to just have it in a little bath of melted nickel on a suitable piece of steel. Cleaning and surface tension might be issues, as might adhesion between both steel and nickel, and nickel and tungsten, but I'm hoping this is one those things that just magically works out great!  (Someday something has to - right?)

Time will tell. Worth a shot I figure

[cody6268]

Lowes used to have a set of  hobby files (half were diamond files, the other half regular) with 1/4 hex shafts so that a screwdriver handle could be used as the handle for them. I suspect you could use that with a multitool with a 1/4 driver on it. Maybe grind them down for Leatherman flat bits.

[McStitchy]

Sorry for not reading every single word on this thread... time is of the essence 

But did someone mention the replacement kit for the LM Surge blade exchanger already?

It's a woodsaw and a two sided file (diamond and normal).

Greets,

Matt

[Sam Lim]

Sorry for not reading every single word on this thread... time is of the essence 

But did someone mention the replacement kit for the LM Surge blade exchanger already?

It's a woodsaw and a two sided file (diamond and normal).

Greets,

Matt

Well, I did.. It's $5 replacement a pop.. But the something to do with Melons got over them.. Hey but here is all about experimentation right? 

[McStitchy]

Okeedokee... seems the melons passed me with no harm 

[Vidar]

Well, I did.. It's $5 replacement a pop.. But the something to do with Melons got over them.. Hey but here is all about experimentation right? 

There were some monkey brains too? Of course if one simply wants a file the very rational choice is just buying one.

Either way I figure it might be interesting to try a bit of a DIY angle. Having the option of putting tungsten carbides on steel surfaces might come in handy in a few ways, and not just for files. On the flip side I guess the potential downsides are limited to setting fire to myself or the workshop, catching a sputter boiling nickel ball in the eye, breathing poisonous heavy metal gases, wasting some time and money on this.. If it goes amazingly wrong I might at least learn something. Time will tell.