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Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener. 938

Sr. Member Posts: 413
Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« on: June 29, 2018, 09:30:22 PM »
Do you have any Victorinox with this stamp on can opener?

Can you check please which  blade stamp corresponds this one?
My knives have +ARMEE SUISSE stamp and VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS, what about yours?



According Ulli's stamp dates chart we should find some knives from 1952-1953 with US.PAT.PEND. stamp together blade stamp used after +ARMEE SUISSE (I believe it is VICTORIA OFFICIER crossbow / VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp used from 1952 when many changes and new tools were introduced )
If they stopped +ARMEE SUISSE stamp in 1951 (and used these blades ~1 year after) 1952 looks good year for new stamp. What do you think?




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« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 09:38:00 PM by jnoxyd »
Full Member Posts: 113
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2018, 03:12:09 AM »

My knives have +ARMEE SUISSE stamp and VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS, what about yours?


Interesting post, Jnoxyd. I have several SAKs with the US.PAT.PEND. stamp on the can opener. Most of them have the same +ARMEE SUISSE (front) and VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS (back) blade stamps that you show, but one is a Hoffritz SAK and thus a bit different: It also has a +ARMEE SUISSE blade stamp on the front, but on the back of the blade it has a HOFFRITZ SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp. I believe that this Hoffritz variation isn't rare. Here is a link to a Fisherman with such stamps that was recently offered for sale on eBay. Here is the first image of this eBay item, which shows all the stamps very nicely:


 
Other than this Hoffritz variation, however, I don't recall seeing different blade stamps on SAKs with the US.PAT.PEND. stamp on the can opener.




Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,871
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2018, 07:13:06 PM »
Do you have any Victorinox with this stamp on can opener?

Can you check please which  blade stamp corresponds this one?
My knives have +ARMEE SUISSE stamp and VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS, what about yours?

According Ulli's stamp dates chart we should find some knives from 1952-1953 with US.PAT.PEND. stamp together blade stamp used after +ARMEE SUISSE (I believe it is VICTORIA OFFICIER crossbow / VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp used from 1952 when many changes and new tools were introduced )
If they stopped +ARMEE SUISSE stamp in 1951 (and used these blades ~1 year after) 1952 looks good year for new stamp. What do you think?


Great pics jnoxyd! :like: :tu: :tu:
Sr. Member Posts: 442
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,871
Full Member Posts: 113
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 11:51:09 PM »
According Ulli's stamp dates chart we should find some knives from 1952-1953 with US.PAT.PEND. stamp together blade stamp used after +ARMEE SUISSE (I believe it is VICTORIA OFFICIER crossbow / VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp used from 1952 when many changes and new tools were introduced )
Your theory seems to be correct, Jnoxyd! A short time ago, a model 234k with the stamps that you have been looking for was sold on eBay. Here are some images from this eBay item:







I believe that this stamp combination is nevertheless quite rare and I wonder if that had something to do with the high selling price of this SAK.

Quote
If they stopped +ARMEE SUISSE stamp in 1951 (and used these blades ~1 year after) 1952 looks good year for new stamp. What do you think?
I think that the vast majority of the SAKs with the US.PAT.PEND. stamp on the can opener have the +ARMEE SUISSE stamp on the large blade. Hence, I tend to believe that the +ARMEE SUISSE stamp was used until 1953.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,578
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 12:29:50 AM »
Ok...thanks for the heads up...I have never seen one marked us.pat.pend. marked on any SAK. Will have to buy one now that I know about it. Thanks for the photo’s and information. Am also buying any Phillips with a slot cut into it. Again something I have learned from you all. Learning never ends here!  :cheers:
Sr. Member Posts: 413
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 02:00:05 PM »
Thank you MiniChamp  :hatsoff:
Hero Member Posts: 503
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 04:14:04 PM »
According Ulli's stamp dates chart we should find some knives from 1952-1953 with US.PAT.PEND. stamp together blade stamp used after +ARMEE SUISSE (I believe it is VICTORIA OFFICIER crossbow / VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp used from 1952 when many changes and new tools were introduced )
Your theory seems to be correct, Jnoxyd! A short time ago, a model 234k with the stamps that you have been looking for was sold on eBay. Here are some images from this eBay item:

(Image removed from quote.)
Hero Member Posts: 568
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 05:14:32 PM »
 jnoxyd - Does the left knife in your picture below have Nickel Silver liners?



I've been wondering if that change coincides with the 91mm knives getting 2.5mm pins.  Or are there a few aluminum liner 2.25mm pinned ends or 2.5mm pinned with nickel silver liners and the US. PAT. PEND. copies out there.

Nickel Silver liners and US. PAT. PEND. copies exist in 84mm knives.

Also wondering if it hints that the '51 Can Opener Patent was issued very early in the year. Or so my theory goes...
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,183
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 05:21:34 PM »
Now this thread got bumped anyway, that eBay listing knife has a +GF+ marking on the blade, which is a Swiss pipeline company still active today.

I have a 1943 Gourmet with the same ad.

Buy now or regret later
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,183
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 05:30:45 PM »
By the way, my tang stamps are:

 + ARMÉE
    SUISSE

And on the other side:
INOXYD (in a crossbow)

Buy now or regret later
Hero Member Posts: 568
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 06:00:39 PM »
Interesting post, Jnoxyd. I have several SAKs with the US.PAT.PEND. stamp on the can opener. Most of them have the same +ARMEE SUISSE (front) and VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS (back) blade stamps that you show, but one is a Hoffritz SAK and thus a bit different: It also has a +ARMEE SUISSE blade stamp on the front, but on the back of the blade it has a HOFFRITZ SWITZERLAND STAINLESS stamp. I believe that this Hoffritz variation isn't rare. Here is a link to a Fisherman with such stamps that was recently offered for sale on eBay. Here is the first image of this eBay item, which shows all the stamps very nicely:

(Image removed from quote.)
 
Other than this Hoffritz variation, however, I don't recall seeing different blade stamps on SAKs with the US.PAT.PEND. stamp on the can opener.

Just attaching a screen shot pic for future reference since the original pic links are dead.
Full Member Posts: 113
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 06:10:11 PM »
jnoxyd - Does the left knife in your picture below have Nickel Silver liners?

(Image removed from quote.)

I believe that this knife is the Champion on the front of the following image that Jnoxyd posted on another thread and that it has aluminum liners:



 Of course, for a definite answer, we should wait for Jnoxyd to respond.

Quote
I've been wondering if that change coincides with the 91mm knives getting 2.5mm pins.  Or are there a few aluminum liner 2.25mm pinned ends or 2.5mm pinned with nickel silver liners and the US. PAT. PEND. copies out there.
As far as I can tell, there seems to have been (presumably in 1951) a sharp transition in the 90mm/91mm line that involved the following changes:
  • Change of length from 90mm to 91mm.
  • Change from nickel-silver liners to aluminum liners.
  • Change of distances between the rivets.
  • Change from three visible rivets that appear to have roughly the same diameter to three visible rivets where the central one appears to have a slightly smaller diameter (note that I'm referring to what is suggested by the appearance of the visible peened edges of the rivets; since I usually don't take SAKs apart, I don't really know what are the actual diameters).
  • Change from the older 1946-51 can opener to the 1951 can opener with the US. PAT. PEND. stamp.
I don't recall seeing any transitional SAKs with only some (but not all) of these five changes. I expect that if such transitional SAKs exist, they are quite rare.

Quote
Nickel Silver liners and US. PAT. PEND. copies exist in 84mm knives.
Indeed they do. As do 83mm SAKs with aluminum liners and the older types of can openers. There are even 84mm SAKs with mixed types of liners (I happen to have an Artisan, model 136ka, with two aluminum liners and three nickel-silver liners). I don't recall seeing any of these phenomena on 90mm/91mm SAKs. Is it just by chance? I don't know.  :dunno:

Quote
Also wondering if it hints that the '51 Can Opener Patent was issued very early in the year. Or so my theory goes...
I believe that the relevant patent is the Swiss patent CH289030A, which was filed for on May 7, 1951 and was granted on February 28, 1953. Quoting what J Mackrel Jones wrote in a another thread:

"US PAT PEND on the can opener only for a couple years - 1951 (when the arc-style opener appears) to 1953 (when the patent was approved and PAT appears) - and PAT from 1953 to 1973 (when the 20-year Swiss patent expired)."

I believe that the +PAT stamp on the can opener actually stopped around 1971, but other than that, my observations are consistent with this theory.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:27:59 PM by MiniChamp »
Full Member Posts: 113
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 06:26:30 PM »
Just attaching a screen shot pic for future reference since the original pic links are dead.
Thanks! Here is the full size image.
Sr. Member Posts: 413
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2019, 10:30:39 AM »
jnoxyd - Does the left knife in your picture below have Nickel Silver liners?

(Image removed from quote.)

MiniChamp is right, it is Champion with aluminum liners

Hero Member Posts: 568
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2019, 05:42:28 PM »
MiniChamp is right, it is Champion with aluminum liners
(Image removed from quote.)

:cheers: Thanks for the pic and confirmation jnoxyd.

I believe that this knife is the Champion on the front of the following image that Jnoxyd posted on another thread and that it has aluminum liners:

(Image removed from quote.)

 Of course, for a definite answer, we should wait for Jnoxyd to respond.
:cheers: Thanks for the detailed response and good job remembering that post! I wasn't thinking it was the same knife.

As far as I can tell, there seems to have been (presumably in 1951) a sharp transition in the 90mm/91mm line that involved the following changes:
  • Change of length from 90mm to 91mm.
  • Change from nickel-silver liners to aluminum liners.
  • Change of distances between the rivets.
  • Change from three visible rivets that appear to have roughly the same diameter to three visible rivets where the central one appears to have a slightly smaller diameter (note that I'm referring to what is suggested by the appearance of the visible peened edges of the rivets; since I usually don't take SAKs apart, I don't really know what are the actual diameters).
  • Change from the older 1946-51 can opener to the 1951 can opener with the US. PAT. PEND. stamp.
I don't recall seeing any transitional SAKs with only some (but not all) of these five changes. I expect that if such transitional SAKs exist, they are quite rare.

I'm imagining they are very rare if they exist. Would you add the 'bird head' spacer material to the 'sharp transition' list?  At least in this context?  And there is mine with the 'thin' ~0.5mm aluminum liner. Might be a brief/rare transition part unless somebody suggests otherwise.  I'm hoping for even one part like that to be nickel silver.

I haven't taken apart many knives of this vintage, but i do buy broken ones for parts and chronology/study.

Indeed they do. As do 83mm SAKs with aluminum liners and the older types of can openers. There are even 84mm SAKs with mixed types of liners (I happen to have an Artisan, model 136ka, with two aluminum liners and three nickel-silver liners). I don't recall seeing any of these phenomena on 90mm/91mm SAKs. Is it just by chance? I don't know.  :dunno:
Good to know they got mixed materials I know it happened again way later when the aluminum liners went to non-anodized for main line knives (aside from the knife liner). The first ones to change were the 1.0mm thick ones for pliers/scissor and the 'full' liner for saws.

I have been wondering where the 83mm aluminum + old openers fit in. I don't recall that jazzbass had a clear answer - just that the materials changed post WWII.

I believe that the relevant patent is the Swiss patent CH289030A, which was filed for on May 7, 1951 and was granted on February 28, 1953. Quoting what J Mackrel Jones wrote in a another thread:

"US PAT PEND on the can opener only for a couple years - 1951 (when the arc-style opener appears) to 1953 (when the patent was approved and PAT appears) - and PAT from 1953 to 1973 (when the 20-year Swiss patent expired)."

I believe that the +PAT stamp on the can opener actually stopped around 1971, but other than that, my observations are consistent with this theory.

 :tu: Excellent info as usual, and thanks for the application date!  :cheers: My understanding is that the 20 year period is from the application date, so the use of the +PAT stamp should have ended by May 7, 1971!  So I think the theory fits...There were far too many (IMO) c. '72 - style knives to be only a year of production. A year and a half to two+ makes much more sense to me.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 05:49:52 PM by kamakiri »
Full Member Posts: 113
Re: Need pictures of vintage Victorinox with US.PAT.PEND. stamp on can opener.
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2019, 03:56:56 AM »
Would you add the 'bird head' spacer material to the 'sharp transition' list?
Yes. I didn't mention it because, as I see it, back then they simply made the spacer from the same material that they used for the liners (and this was true before and after the transition).

Quote
I have been wondering where the 83mm aluminum + old openers fit in. I don't recall that jazzbass had a clear answer - just that the materials changed post WWII.
I remember JAZZBASS writing about having in his collection early-1940's SAKs with aluminum liners and speculating that they may have been the result of copper alloys being hard to obtain during WWII. (I don't recall him ever mentioning the length of these SAKs, though.) Other than this, what I know is that I have two early-1940's 83mm SAKs with non-anodized aluminum liners and one 83mm SAK from around 1950 (I think) with the 1946-51 can opener and anodized aluminum liners.

Quote
:tu: Excellent info as usual,
Thanks!  :cheers:

 

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