Fasting........

[ThePeacent]

I thought this was the fasting thread.... 

yes we got a bit carried away,  thus why I said in the post just above and answering to Nix's very interesting points:

"So I don't see if or where are we contradicting ourselves in what has been posted,  but yes there's many misinformation spread all across the world and much bad has been done and said in the education and advertising of the American Diet and Nutrition in general in the last century   

but I fail to see what does that have to do with fasting more than it has to do with proper nutrition, a subject for another (or many other) threads  "

[Nix]

Well said, El P. 

[Mechanickal]

I can vouch for the part where it states that the waves of hunger get less intense and less common.

When I couldn't eat for a few weeks, the first 3-4 days were the hardest regarding hunger.

[styx]

so please help me figure this out - you said 18-6 right? i usually get to the gym around 18:30 to 19:00 and don't get back home before 21:00. this will all change for the next month since I'll be going to a different gym, but that is still the best outlier.

if I cap off the eating window at 22:00 that means it starts at 16:00, which means going through almost the entire day on a coffee or 2 and water. this is a bit concerning since I get up around 7, work 'till 17:00
if I say end the eating window at 20:00, it would start at 14:00 which is great (since that is about the time I eat lunch at work anyway), however it would also mean that after the gym there is no meal and logistically a bit more concerning managing to put all the meals while i'm at work (i squat 3 times a week and if i eat something in the hour before it tends to lead to wanting to hurl, especially if it is a max effort or around 90% squat which also means I've got a belt on tight)

To give a few figures, I should be eating a baseline of 2000 kcal to be in a caloric deficit plus what ever I spend on cardio (walking to and from work, to and from the gym). Gym days that means 880 extra kcal, off days that means 440 extra kcal. Again, for the next month all days will be calculated as off days since that temporary gym is close to my work.
That would bean hitting 2400kcal a day, breaking it down to 3 meals would be 800kcal which is oddly difficult when you're trying to eat clean (no sugar, carbs from potatoes, rice, vegetables and fruit, using leaner meats).
I have a feeling that this will result in me being one of those guys that packs a mini fridge to work and eats every 2 hours like a baby

[ThePeacent]

so please help me figure this out - 1you said 18-6 right? I usually get to the gym around 18:30 to 19:00 and don't get back home before 21:00. this will all change for the next month since I'll be going to a different gym, but that is still the best outlier.

if I cap off the eating window at 22:00 that means it starts at 16:00, which means going through almost the entire day on a coffee or 2 and water. this is a bit concerning since I get up around 7, work 'till 17:00
if I say end the eating window at 20:00, it would start at 14:00 which is great2 (since that is about the time I eat lunch at work anyway), however it would also mean that after the gym there is no meal and logistically 3a bit more concerning managing to put all the meals while i'm at work (i squat 3 times a week and if i eat something in the hour before it tends to lead to wanting to hurl, especially if it is a max effort or around 90% squat which also means I've got a belt on tight)

To give a few figures, I should be eating a baseline of 42000 kcal to be in a caloric deficit plus what ever I spend on cardio (walking to and from work, to and from the gym). Gym days that means 880 extra kcal, off days that means 440 extra kcal. Again, for the next month all days will be calculated as off days since that temporary gym is close to my work.
That would bean hitting 52400kcal a day, breaking it down to 3 meals would be 800kcal 6which is oddly difficult when you're trying to eat clean (no sugar, carbs from potatoes, rice, vegetables and fruit, using leaner meats).
I have a feeling that this will result in me being one of those guys that packs a mini fridge to work and 7eats every 2 hours like a baby

let's split the answer to address different bolded parts, in order 

1- I didn't say anything about your ideal personal approach to fasting, 18/6 is as valid as is 16/8, 20/4 or other methods. I personally do 18/6 most days (stop eating at 9PM, eating lunch at around 15 next day). You do as you wish, or can 

2- That's up to you, some people can't have breakfast, some others need something to eat as soon as they get up, many people have dinner at 6 or 7PM (including several EU countries), etc. If you usually skip breakfast like me, and your first meal is lunch, then the easier it is to tick to this. You have to mold it to your preferential eating hours, or do ADF (alternate day fasting)

3- I, and many millions of people, do not eat while at work, or have jobs/job sites/environments where it is harder to find a break for eating. I advise you to consider not eating at all during your work hours to improve your efficiency and save time, but I do not know what, where or when do you work     or what does your job demand of you 

4- Calories are totally independent of fasting, one can eat 3500kcal/day on a fasting diet, or 1800kcal/day on a 5 meal a day plan 

5- No need to do that, I personally eat 2600-2800 kcal/day on two meals, and one snack in between (15-16PM and 20-21PM) if I feel like it. Also, I guess you're following that diet and meal distribution due to your workout and exercise, and the intention to build muscle  but it can be easily modified to be efficient while fitting into a fasting plan 

6- I don't really agree with that.  Even in a muscle building diet you can combine the proper carb/protein/fat ratios in every meal (be it 2 or 3 meals a day or more) to reach 800kcal, less or more calories too, in a clean, natural way. The hardest part is not what foods to pick, but rather the logistics of transport, eating, and varying the diert enough while working, walking and going to the gym.

Planning is the key here.
And also, fat is the densest food calorie wise (9Kcal/gram vs 4kcal/gram for protein and carbs) so adding it to your meals would make them more compact, easier to transport, and smaller so they interfere less with exercise (non fulll stomachs, bloating, gas, indigestion, etc.) and your logistics.

Finally, maybe the best diet to compliment a fasting approach is a ketogenic or low carb one, where fat is king and carbs (especially easily digested ones like rice, potato, etc.) are not welcome, because of their immediate absorption, blood sugar spiking and other issues 

just food for thought (pun intended) 

7- that would be the end result the furthest from a proper, well planned fasting diet, but I am not anyone to tell you how, what, where and when to eat  , the fasting approach might not be for you, or at least not at this time     if you find it so challenging and hard to pull off. Friendly advice here, nothing else! I will try to help you the best I can, otr at least offer you other points of view 

[styx]

Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal. A big part of that is the lack of availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients. It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.


I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

[Gerhard Gerber]

Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal. A big part of that is the lack of availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients. It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I already spend as much on food as a small family.
I beat myself up about this at times, but the only option is eating less, not to start shoveling garbage......my body doesn't let me get away with that.

I had an active weekend but I ate too much yesterday......paying for that today. 

[styx]

yea that is problematic at best

[Gerhard Gerber]

3- I, and many millions of people, do not eat while at work, or have jobs/job sites/environments where it is harder to find a break for eating. I advise you to consider not eating at all during your work hours to improve your efficiency and save time, but I do not know what, where or when do you work     or what does your job demand of you 

Even disregarding those that are in effect slaves, I know the truth of what you're saying.....but I can't do it.

Closest I came was when I smoked 40 a (good) day.......

[pfrsantos]

I just lost 120 pounds!
 

Show content

I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 

I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...

She was British.

Show content

Seems Brexit came early for me...

 

[pfrsantos]

I was suggesting she was paid. 

In that case, since we "broke up", I'd have gained/saved120 pounds...

 

[pfrsantos]

I just lost 120 pounds!
 

Show content

I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 

I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...

Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 

Show content

Round is a shape, you know?!

 

[pfrsantos]

So you're going to start a fasting thread? I'm in!

Why start another?!

 

Show content

Isn't this one going fast enough for you?...

 

[ThePeacent]

Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely 

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious 
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  ) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables) 

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere    And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking    No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein 

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole 
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong 

[styx]

I just lost 120 pounds!
 

Show content

I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 

I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...

Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 

Show content

Round is a shape, you know?!

 

on the bright side now we can bro it up, wingman style

[styx]

Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely 

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious 
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  ) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables) 

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere    And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking    No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein 

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole 
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong 

you'd be surprised by some of the things that should be inexpensive but aren't. now i'm going off work so i'll have to add on later

[ThePeacent]

Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely 

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious 
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  ) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables) 

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere    And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking    No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein 

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole 
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong 

you'd be surprised by some of the things that should be inexpensive but aren't. now i'm going off work so i'll have to add on later

good luck!  Don't push it, don't overdo it,
now I am taking a white tea infusion to calm the stomach down before going to sleep. GOing soon to sleep is key on the first day to avoid late night cravings 

[styx]

tha's great advice

[SteveC]

Are you guys trying to lose weight ?   

[styx]

I just lost 120 pounds!
 

Show content

I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 

I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...

Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 

Show content

Round is a shape, you know?!

 

and this is what I meant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_tJEiIAUh8

[ThePeacent]

Are you guys trying to lose weight ?   

that is not the purpose of this,
but it can be a desirable side effect of practicing this in the long term