Help of the Sages

[The_Raven]

I have been reading this forum quite extensively recently (much to the detriment of other responsibilities. . .  ) and decided to ask the sages of MTo for help in my next MT purchase. This is also a bit of an introductory, and as such, will likely be long-winded (set the standard straight away, I always say)

So I do not have an extensive History with MT's, but have developed a great love for them. I have only owned a SOG powerassist and Gerber Center drive (as far as non-generic MT's go) I have loved both of these for various reasons, but I am in the market for a new one to better fit current circumstances/desires and would love some informed advice.

I was until recently carrying the center drive in it's holster on my belt. I was in maintenance work and loved it for that. Now, however, I need an MT that will pocket carry. I'm planning on making my own pocket organizer for an EDC that it will fit in. I'll first discuss my activities where an MT would be handy, then list some of the tools/features I would prefer, then lastly, which MT's I'm currently looking at.

First, I'm a jack-of-all trades. My friends regularly ask me to help them move (and then put together their furniture for them) do minor mechanical repairs ( had to replace a friend's power steering line in the middle of a parking lot) and fix things around the house. I do electrical, plumbing, etc. I also work on computers and fix electronics. Probably all pretty basic stuff for this community.

I want an MT that is versatile. It has to be a pocket carry, as a belt holster no longer fits into my repertoire. I want a good set of pliers. I've never owned a SAK (I know! Have mercy, no stoning please) but I struggle with the idea behind it versus a clamshell/ pliers configuration. (I understand the benefits of portability, which I'm open to arguments in favor of if it turns out one would best suit my listed desires) I also desire outside access to tools if at all possible, I'm not a fan of having to open the tool for access.

As far as tools go, I deeply desire a 1/4" bit holder. It is my single favorite feature on my center drive. I do plan on carrying a bit set as well (adds some to the bulk, but love the versatility) aside from that, I also prefer a blade, an awl, and a good set of wire cutters (my least favorite feature of the center drive, but a very loved one of the power assist). I also am starting to think a saw would be a good choice. Up until recently, I was thinking scissors as well, but am reconsidering that.

I do want scissors in my EDC, but I'm thinking about carrying a dedicated set because many places I go, whipping out an MT could draw unwanted attention, so having the scissors as a separate cutting option would be nice. (considering the slip n snip, or county comm 3.5" shears)

Right now, the MT's I've been looking at are the SOG power access/power litre/ power pint, the Leatherman wingman (although with my reconsideration of the saw and scissors, maybe I should lean towards sidekick), LM juice CS4, and possibly a Swiss spirit x (I'm actually not sure which specific model of Swiss tool, it's relatively recent on my list)

I love the concept of the 1/4" bit holder, size, and outside tool access of the SOGs. And I know I love the compound leverage and balisong style opening. However, the QC issues I read about are a major concern to me (probably already would have bought one if it wasn't for that. . . Sad. . .  )

I've always been reticent about Leatherman. For one, I do not like their driver bits (at least in concept as I have never used them admittedly). I don't like the idea of flattened Phillips heads or anything like that. I like the full 3D Phillips head on my SOG. I also tend not to like mainstream things, so when I learned that Leatherman was considered the standard, i naturally resisted being a joiner. . .  however, they do have some pocketable options, and the reputation of quality is enough to help me push past this reticence. The price on the juice has stayed my hand for now, as I would really need to be convinced of it to justify the price for something that looks somewhat flimsy.

I've done the least amount of research on the Victorinox. I've just read outstanding comments on their amazing quality and they too seem to have some pocketable options. However, I would really have to be convinced that it was the one to blow that much of my tool budget on it.

I am willing, and even interested, in modding my MT. I don't have extensive experience in this, but I have a mechanical aptitude and am a fast learner, so as long as it's not too complicated a mod, I would consider it to turn an MT into a more suitable fit for me.

Again, most of what I have said is based on research and personal ponderings, not in experience with the tools. Thus, I am ready to accept that some of my assumptions are wrong or expectations need adjustment. I am also very willing to consider options that I have not yet listed. So, if any of you experienced members have the time, I would appreciate your input.

[Mechanickal]

Welcome!


First:
Get a Victorinox Classic on your keychain.
Or a Leatherman Micra... but rather no Leatherman you said so Vic it is.

This will take care of your need for scissors and a Classic can be taken from your pocket virtualy anywhere without someone raising an eyebrow.

They are small, but cut REALLY well.

The actual multi:
You have to hold a Swisstool Spirit before you understand the fit and finish! They're superb.
While reading your post, I thought "this guy needs a Spirit" it does lack a bit driver, but has all outside opening tools!

I compensate for the bit driver myself by carrying a Topeak ratchet with me. The added advantage is that I can turn a bolt (which takes a driver ofcourse) and hold the nut with my MT.

[gerleatherberman]

You've, incidentally, covered most of your own ground here. What is left, that we can recommend, is mostly subjective.
Welcome to MT.o!

If this helps, I was resistant to the LM bit sets, because of the same reasons you are. I finally tried them and couldn't be happier. The 21pc set gives you 42 different drivers. And they aren't really "flat", but just not as thick one way as the other. 

I use a Surge with the bit kit in sheath, but the Surge and Wave can take the optional pocket clip, which works very well.

Leatherman mainstream? Using that logic, Victorinox and Gerber are out as well.  Multitools, in reality, are not mainstream. Most people don't use them, and even fewer, carry them.

Anyway, I hope that was helpful. Many more, more experienced, members may chime in here.

The Vic Spirit is very nice, but you'll be limited with the bit driver system and minuscule wire cutter section(the pliers don't open wide either). It all depends on what you think you'll need it for. Fit and finish don't make a tool more able.

My final recommendation is a used LM Wave with optional pocket clip and bit set. Bit cards can be put in many places without being bulky. And, just for the record, the LM phillips bit, bites and drives, better than the SOG PowerAssist phillips.

[Mechanickal]

^^^ Good points there! ^^^

[The_Raven]

Awesome, thanks for the replies already! First off, while my hipster attitude made me hold off on a LM up until now, I am not so resistant anymore. I actually have looked at the Micra with serious considerations. Is it worth the $30?

GLBM - great to see your reply. I just spent way too long reading your adventures on the 30 day PAD challenge. I was really hoping for that lineup to be viable. Come on SOG, get it together!  Anyway, the main thing that's held me back from looking too seriously at the wave is most reviews claim it's too big for pocket carry. Do you disagree with that? I'll have to see if I can find a good deal on a used one. Also, points taken on the "mainstream" argument. My only exposure to multitools has really been the internet and one guy I worked with. So I fully admit that my opinions up to this point are at a very infantile stage. I honestly didn't know Victorinox made any MT besides the SAK until recently. . . 

Again, thanks guys. Appreciate the advice

[Poncho65]

Welcome to

My first thought for you would be a Wave as well Did you read the pocketability issue here Cause most here that pocket the Wave don't think it is too big Of course those are the same people that probably also pocket carry a Surge The LM bits are also very good and I have used them for a long while without issue I even carry the LM bit adapter for using them on my square shanked MTs as well Really it will be up to you though and have you thought about just getting one of the nite eze stick on clips for your Center Drive there are several members here who have had great luck using those as well

Let us know what you end up getting and pics of what you currently have please

[gerleatherberman]

Awesome, thanks for the replies already! First off, while my hipster attitude made me hold off on a LM up until now, I am not so resistant anymore. I actually have looked at the Micra with serious considerations. Is it worth the $30?

GLBM - great to see your reply. I just spent way too long reading your adventures on the 30 day PAD challenge. I was really hoping for that lineup to be viable. Come on SOG, get it together!  Anyway, the main thing that's held me back from looking too seriously at the wave is most reviews claim it's too big for pocket carry. Do you disagree with that? I'll have to see if I can find a good deal on a used one. Also, points taken on the "mainstream" argument. My only exposure to multitools has really been the internet and one guy I worked with. So I fully admit that my opinions up to this point are at a very infantile stage. I honestly didn't know Victorinox made any MT besides the SAK until recently. . . 

Again, thanks guys. Appreciate the advice

You're quite welcome. 
Regarding pocket ability, we have some members who believe a Vic SAK camper or huntsman are too big for a pocket. And then we have members who pocket carry tools like the center-drive without issue.
It ia soooo subjective.
The Wave with a pocket clip is very well centered, in regards to, people who have sheath carried heavier tools.

The Micra is a good value, if you can find one for $20 or so.

O.k. In regard to the PowerAccess. The tool's design and functionality are great. The quality control and sub-par toolset really make it a hard one to recommend. But, with that said, it DID do what it was supposed to so.  It just didn't do it well. I was able to complete the challenge without issue, but some of our less forgiving participants had to ease out of the challenge, admittedly, for reasons related to quality control of the PowerAccess and PowerAccess Deluxe.

Perhaps they will revise the tool and re-release it with the issues taken care of. But, the PA and PAD still have that stellar compound leverage system and use all-outboard tools 

[Wspeed]

Welcome to 
I still really like the SOG PAD
The worst thing about the PAD is the file
But it does work as you might of seen on the challenge
The can opener did work just not as well as a SAK can opener
Apart from that the PAD did everything we used it for
And to be honest I hardly ever use the can opener or the file
All cans seem to be going to ring pull anyway
And using the file would be no problem
as it does work just not as good as a LM one
But I don’t really use the file much anyway on any MT

I hope you find what you are looking for
The LM Surge is what I would go for
but the LM Wave is good as well just a bit smaller 

[Old Boy]

Certainly not as wise as the folks here but as you mentioned the Wave would cover your needs. Maybe just add the bit extender as it seems you use this function a lot.

But the Wave would not fit my definition of pocket carry as too heavy and big. But that’s just me as I work mainly in the office. If you are on the same inclination maybe check out the Leatherman PS4 and pair it with a SAK Cadet.

Or like you said get the Wingman or Sidekick and pair it a SAK SD for the scissors. Or get those foldable sewing scissors.

Good luck!!

[SteveC]

Welcome to MTO ! 

[Antti Lammi]

I would go also go on cause its versatile and light weight compared to surge, if tool size doesnt matter i would go Surge over Wave but if needed smaller then Wave. Micra has good pair of scissor but waves scissor ate good but in my opinion Micra has better one and its small. Heres my set and added Surge to compare sizes

Only Tools Matters

[Antti Lammi]

And welcome

Only Tools Matters

[Antti Lammi]

Heres packed version

Only Tools Matters

[pfrsantos]

Welcome aboard!

 

From what you say, I'm tempted to say you should get a Wave with bit set. Despite being flattened, the bits work very well. In terms of weight/size, depending on your own weight/size, I'd say it can be carried confortably in your pocket. You don't sound like someone who dresses in a 3-piece suit everyday. Jeans or cargo pants (even chinos) have big enough pockets for a Wave.

Try to find someone who owns one (or go into a store) and ask to see how it feels in your pocket. Try different pockets to see how you like it.

 

[The_Raven]

Thanks for all the replies! This is a helpful community.
Santos - I actually do wear suits quite frequently. Not always a three piece, but sometimes. (I'm unpredictable!) But to be honest, my suit pockets seem deeper than most of my other pants pockets. I just don't think the fabric would take as much wear (hopefully the pocket organizer would help with that)

GLBM - valid point. I did actually try to pocket carry the center drive, and the weight of it didn't bother me at all. However, some of my pants have rather shallow pockets (Dickies anyone?) and that pocket had to room with my keys, flashlight, and own, and so the bulk of it became difficult. (lack of a pocket organizer contributed to the pocket chaos. If you haven't noticed, I'm putting a lot of hope into a pocket organizer to help me accomplish my goals) Thus, physical dimensions probably are a bigger factor for me.

OTM - nice load out. Do you pocket carry that wave setup?

Mechanical (?) - I still do want to get a Spirit. However, right now I'm thinking I'll hold off. They look nice, but I don't think I can justify the price to daily functional value at this point. (Maybe my opinion will change once I actually get one)

W - good to see you here too! Yeah, the PA is a nice concept, and I'll likely break down and get one eventually. An article on MTo earlier this year said a SOG rep acknowledged the QC issue and stated that they are working on it. Hopefully by the time my willpower gives out and I grab one, they'll have straightened all of that or.

Poncho - I will get pix loaded as soon as I figure out how. ( Having some difficulties on that part. Not really living up to my self-proclaimed tech skills  )

And hello to everyone!

[Wspeed]

 

[SteveC]

I want an MT that is versatile. It has to be a pocket carry, as a belt holster no longer fits into my repertoire. I want a good set of pliers. I've never owned a SAK (I know! Have mercy, no stoning please) but I struggle with the idea behind it versus a clamshell/ pliers configuration. (I understand the benefits of portability, which I'm open to arguments in favor of if it turns out one would best suit my listed desires) I also desire outside access to tools if at all possible, I'm not a fan of having to open the tool for access.

As far as tools go, I deeply desire a 1/4" bit holder. It is my single favorite feature on my center drive. I do plan on carrying a bit set as well (adds some to the bulk, but love the versatility) aside from that, I also prefer a blade, an awl, and a good set of wire cutters (my least favorite feature of the center drive, but a very loved one of the power assist). I also am starting to think a saw would be a good choice. Up until recently, I was thinking scissors as well, but am reconsidering that.

Based on your needs I would suggest a Leatherman Rebar, it's pocketable has replaceable wire cutters a file a saw and an awl plus serrated and PE blades. Add the Leatherman Removable bit driver which takes regular 1/4" bits as well as the flat ones and your good to go.

It doesn't have a pocket clip or scissors but people have added those quite easily with a mod. It also doesn't have outside opening tools but that is easy to get used to.

[BePrepared]

We each have our own preferences, but I would suggest you handle/fondle a LM Wave and a Juice S2.  The wave can be found second hand in good condition, so don't be put off by shop prices. The juice is perhaps at the smaller end of what might suit you?  Juice has adaptor that can take flat or full bits.

Maybe browse the threads about pocket sheaths and EDC for ideas about what and how other people are kitted out.

And Welcome!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Exeter]

I want an MT that is versatile. It has to be a pocket carry, as a belt holster no longer fits into my repertoire. I want a good set of pliers. I've never owned a SAK (I know! Have mercy, no stoning please) but I struggle with the idea behind it versus a clamshell/ pliers configuration. (I understand the benefits of portability, which I'm open to arguments in favor of if it turns out one would best suit my listed desires) I also desire outside access to tools if at all possible, I'm not a fan of having to open the tool for access.

As far as tools go, I deeply desire a 1/4" bit holder. It is my single favorite feature on my center drive. I do plan on carrying a bit set as well (adds some to the bulk, but love the versatility) aside from that, I also prefer a blade, an awl, and a good set of wire cutters (my least favorite feature of the center drive, but a very loved one of the power assist). I also am starting to think a saw would be a good choice. Up until recently, I was thinking scissors as well, but am reconsidering that.

Based on your needs I would suggest a Leatherman Rebar, it's pocketable has replaceable wire cutters a file a saw and an awl plus serrated and PE blades. Add the Leatherman Removable bit driver which takes regular 1/4" bits as well as the flat ones and your good to go.

It doesn't have a pocket clip or scissors but people have added those quite easily with a mod. It also doesn't have outside opening tools but that is easy to get used to.

I second that! The Rebar is very pocketable if that's what you're after, you get a great real 3D Phillips with a relatively long shank, two other flat drivers, and it has great pliers with replacable cutters (although now the Wave offers that too). As you mentioned you're intending to carry a separate set of scissors, the lack of that tool is not a minus for the Rebar either - and yeah, those can be added relatively easily later if you need them. I did so too. Also the Rebar is way more affordable than the Vic Spirit.

Oh, and welcome of course!

[Poncho65]

Though not as rugged as a Wave you might take a look at a Micra and Skeletool type combo it might be better suited for suit pants  then you would still be using the flat bits but as I and other have said, the flat bits are remarkable well made for the types of fasteners they are designed for plus the weight of the Skeletool and the design of its clip make it excellent for pocket carry

[Mechanickal]

No need for a question mark.
My actual name is Nick,
That's where Mechanickal comes from

[Antti Lammi]

Yea i carry wave setup with me, wave is in pocket with pocket clip and bitkit + extender is on my vest pocket or in my other pocket. Micra goes with keys or mini pocket on my jeans. Depends what clothes im wearing then bitkit and micra goes diffrent places but wave is everytime in my right pocket

Only Tools Matters

[SteveC]

Though not as rugged as a Wave you might take a look at a Micra and Skeletool type combo it might be better suited for suit pants  then you would still be using the flat bits but as I and other have said, the flat bits are remarkable well made for the types of fasteners they are designed for plus the weight of the Skeletool and the design of its clip make it excellent for pocket carry

Another good suggestion 

[gregozedobe]

If you don't use the MT very frequently and robust locking pliers are a big plus it might be worth looking at the LM Crunch.  It has a built in full size bit driver, but the rest of the toolset is a bit limited.  A lot depends on your individual preferences and the type of tasks you see most often.  Of course this being MTo I have to say "Buy them all, and keep the one you like the most". 

[pfrsantos]

No need for a question mark.
My actual name is Nick,
That's where Mechanickal comes from

[The_Raven]

No need for a question mark.
My actual name is Nick,
That's where Mechanickal comes from

See! I knew I spelled it wrong!  should be easy to remember now, though

If you don't use the MT very frequently and robust locking pliers are a big plus it might be worth looking at the LM Crunch.  It has a built in full size bit driver, but the rest of the toolset is a bit limited.  A lot depends on your individual preferences and the type of tasks you see most often.  Of course this being MTo I have to say "Buy them all, and keep the one you like the most". 

Oh, the temptation is definitely there. Gotta catch-em all, right?. . .

So I've got some solid ideas now, and I can see, at least, what I should be looking at and what I shouldn't be wasting too much time on at the moment. I'm going to see if I can get some hands-on time at a local store with some of them, and I'll let you all know what decision I've made. Thanks for the help! (But if course, if you have any more suggestions/ thoughts, no need to hesitate to share)

[Nix]

I'll second Exeter's recommendation: Rebar + bit adapter + bit set is a nice package and pocket carries well.   

[Aloha]

Scissors are the easy part.  There are several nice options to be had.  Its hard to beat a 91mm SAK for scissors.  Depending on how much scissor you need, a 58mm SAK is superb. 

Awl, with the 91mm SAKs there are many with backside awls.  If you need more awl then there are options for that as well.

Wire cutters.  I'm inclined to say the MTs with replaceable wire cutters might be what you're after.  I am not using mine a whole lot but my Wave/Charge have handled everything I've ever needed. 

As for the 1/4 bit holder.  The bit holder on LMs tools that have them is really good.  Don't let those flat bits turn you off.  They've never let me down, ever.  If you get the bit extender then you have the option to carry any 1/4 bit you desire.  You can also use a 1/4 socket adapter in the extender  .  Don't get me wrong tho, you wont be torquing down bolts, but you can get by with it. 

There are many of us who have carried a separate mini 1/4 driver to compliment out MTs.  I am a strong believer in the Pocket Wrench 2.  Its flat and carries really well, even in a wallet. 

As for suggestions, everyone knows I am a huge fan of the Wave/Charge series.  It has scissors but lacks awl.  The cutters are good but harder users may have other opinions.  It has a saw and file options.  Its very easily modded to suit your fancy and can be found relatively affordable.   We have a member who sells the wrenches to disassemble it and the parts.

Look at all the awesome mods members have done to it.  I myself have modded one with relative ease.  Mine has OHO scissors, awl, and blade exchanger from the Surge. 

Good luck on your search.           

[Exeter]

I'll second Exeter's recommendation: Rebar + bit adapter + bit set is a nice package and pocket carries well.   

Oh, and I forgot that with the Rebar there's a pretty affordable solution for a bitkit, many Chinese multitools (Ganzos, but other, even cheaper non-brand ones as well) come with proper bitkits and an adapter which fits the Phillips driver perfectly. No need for the pricey LM adapter. See here for example: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,37642.1650.html

 And some pics of a Rebar and Micra combo with said bitkit. (Don't mind the scissors on the Rebar, it's a later addition, but that's what the Micra is for.) Superbly capable combination, slim and probably comes out at the price of a Wave without the LM bitkit.

[Nix]

The long shank of the Phillips driver with the bit adapter give one a nice bit (pardon the pun) of reach.