EDC steel preference.....?

[microbe]

I just ordered my first M390 knife 

Let's see what all the fuss is about when it arrives.

[Nix]

Nice video, Gerhard!

[Gerhard Gerber]

Nice video, Gerhard!

I've really enjoyed his cut test videos, apart from finding him entertaining, I was really surprised by the results of his To The Max tests

My EDC is either H1 or 14C28, so I'm amazed by those super steels....

I just ordered my first M390 knife 

Let's see what all the fuss is about when it arrives.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that "one last knife" I want to buy must be M390 rather than XHP 

[Dean51]

As long as we are being geeky here.
Cedric's test came up on BF a while back and the consensus was there is something flawed in his tests.
I believe one of those things is his sharpening methods, early on he admits his skills are in flux. Cedric's all over the map, unknown stones Lansky, Tormek, KME, Worksharp. If he's going to do these kind of tests he needs one guided system and a consistent set of stones and sharpening angles. Even two tests per steel one polished edge and one toothy edge, some steels just won't hold a polished edge for flip.

Another issue is he seems to not take hardness into account, you can't just test a random steel sample you have to find a maker that does their heat treat right. If you're testing steels alone you can't use steel from Ka-Bar and ESEE who run their steel soft for toughness and not hard edge retention.

Just on his low end steel test Cedric has made some serious errors. Cedric has Case true sharp (420HC)  a near equal to Buck's Boss treated 420HC, that's the first time I've heard that. Case runs their steel very soft, where Buck pushes 420HC much harder.
440C is listed as an equal to Case CV not hardly, Case CV is just a modified 1075 or 1085. Pretty low end stuff.
AUS-8 will hold an edge twice as long as Case True Sharp 420HC. Well heat treated AUS-8 is very close to 1095.
One ZT CPM S35VN at 109 cuts and another at 198 cuts, whats going on there.
From my own test on Home Depot moving boxes one Queen D2 will out cut all three blades of a Case Stockman. Doesn't seem to match Cedric's test.

Cedric did manage to show geometry helps, steel being the same all his 17 Degree per side edges out cut the 20 DPS edges.

[Aloha]

Interesting, as I was just watching his REX 121 testing.  There was some talk within the comment section of Michael Christy video about edge burn using worksharp on Maxamet.  They do things differently but therein lies the result differences not to mention consistency in sharpening.  Michaels video on REX121/Maxamet he touches on finding out why there are these differences.

EDIT.  Just read an article written by Cedric I thought was pretty good.https://www.everydaycommentary.com/www.everydaycommentary.com/2017/7/7/cedric-and-adas-steel-test-and-results

[pomsbz]

As long as we are being geeky here.
Cedric's test came up on BF a while back and the consensus was there is something flawed in his tests.
I believe one of those things is his sharpening methods, early on he admits his skills are in flux. Cedric's all over the map, unknown stones Lansky, Tormek, KME, Worksharp. If he's going to do these kind of tests he needs one guided system and a consistent set of stones and sharpening angles. Even two tests per steel one polished edge and one toothy edge, some steels just won't hold a polished edge for flip.

Another issue is he seems to not take hardness into account, you can't just test a random steel sample you have to find a maker that does their heat treat right. If you're testing steels alone you can't use steel from Ka-Bar and ESEE who run their steel soft for toughness and not hard edge retention.

Just on his low end steel test Cedric has made some serious errors. Cedric has Case true sharp (420HC)  a near equal to Buck's Boss treated 420HC, that's the first time I've heard that. Case runs their steel very soft, where Buck pushes 420HC much harder.
440C is listed as an equal to Case CV not hardly, Case CV is just a modified 1075 or 1085. Pretty low end stuff.
AUS-8 will hold an edge twice as long as Case True Sharp 420HC. Well heat treated AUS-8 is very close to 1095.
One ZT CPM S35VN at 109 cuts and another at 198 cuts, whats going on there.
From my own test on Home Depot moving boxes one Queen D2 will out cut all three blades of a Case Stockman. Doesn't seem to match Cedric's test.

Cedric did manage to show geometry helps, steel being the same all his 17 Degree per side edges out cut the 20 DPS edges.

He's a nice guy and doesn't take himself too seriously and his tests were valuable from a real world perspective if only to have a nailed down anecdotal account to reference. The problem came when he started mixing sharpening methods into his list. Lansky polished in the same list as Worksharp convex edges. At that point all points of comparison collapsed and I stopped watching the lens tests particularly.

[Dean51]

I've seen his videos and enjoyed them.

He's just not ready to test steel.

[David]

I'm a steel enthusiast. I like all kinds of steel. Most descent steel with a good heat treat and good edge geometry will give good performance. It is when you want to get past the good stage that things get interesting.   

[Dean51]

I'm a steel enthusiast. I like all kinds of steel. Most descent steel with a good heat treat and good edge geometry will give good performance. It is when you want to get past the good stage that things get interesting.   

So true. 

[Gerhard Gerber]

I've seen his videos and enjoyed them.

He's just not ready to test steel.

Everything else is fine, but that I cannot agree with......

Pete does not take himself too seriously......

He is intelligent and logical enough to recognize his own mistakes and shortcoming, given time those might be addressed.

(disclaimer) I don't know of anybody else with that volume of data, even if imperfect, and there's a lot of value in that.

He might not take hardness into account, but he's most definitely aware of it's influence unlike some YT'ers...........doesn't hit me as the type of guy that would benefit from owning a Rockwell tester......

 

[Aloha]

@Gerhard, have you seen Michael Christys videos?  He's has some great discussions on steel.  I see Cedric commenting on his videos.  A lot of his information goes over my head but its very interesting non the less. 

[Gerhard Gerber]

@Gerhard, have you seen Michael Christys videos?  He's has some great discussions on steel.  I see Cedric commenting on his videos.  A lot of his information goes over my head but its very interesting non the less.

Yes, subscribed and I've shared some of his videos here.......but honestly I struggle to stay awake all the way through one...... 

I know he tests as well, but unless I've missed it (very possible) I haven't seen his results compiled or him discussing them?

And.......he's a masterful sharpener, but how many people can do what he does? 

C&A is more real-world in that sense....

[Nix]

I've gotten to a point where I think there is a "point of diminishing returns".  I don't think I 'need' CPM S110V or ZDP-189 for a daily knife. And the cost of knives made with these steels tends to be a bit prohibitive.

I know there are some amazing steels out there (and have tried a few), but I've found that I can can get a nice balance of utility, performance, ease of sharpening, and ease of maintenance from a few mid-range steels.

Experimenting--as a user--with different steels is fun for me, but I keep coming back to the basics: traditional steels with a good heat treatment are 'good enough' and likely more than I even need. The irony here is that I often 'abuse' steels that are often perceived as being less advanced or having lower performance, e.g. O-1 or 1095, because I wouldn't want to abuse my S90V knife (right?) and then find that these "lower performance", old-school steels perform amazingly well and are incredibly durable.

[Dean51]

I've seen his videos and enjoyed them.

He's just not ready to test steel.

Everything else is fine, but that I cannot agree with......

Pete does not take himself too seriously......

He is intelligent and logical enough to recognize his own mistakes and shortcoming, given time those might be addressed.

(disclaimer) I don't know of anybody else with that volume of data, even if imperfect, and there's a lot of value in that.

He might not take hardness into account, but he's most definitely aware of it's influence unlike some YT'ers...........doesn't hit me as the type of guy that would benefit from owning a Rockwell tester......

 

Ok, Pete does not take himself to seriously, that's fine for reviews on action, feel in the hand, fit and finish, etc. Like I said I've enjoyed some of his reviews.

I agree he's intelligent and recognizes his own mistakes and short comings and those should be addressed before posting hard data.

For example Viper Keeper D2 listed at 67/70 – cuts, that's down there with no name steels. So does that mean Viper doesn't heat treat correctly. Does it mean Viper isn't using D2 but instead some no name like “surgical steel”. Or does it mean it is because of Cedric's mistakes and shortcomings.
How many people passed on the viper because of Cedric's incorrect data.

ZT0909 CPM-S35VN listed at 109 & 113 cuts but the ZT 0220  CPM-S35VN 194 cuts. Does that mean the 0909 had a bad heat treat or his it because of Cedric's mistakes and shortcomings.

Cedric puts his data online and there are people who may rely on his data for their purchasing decisions. Are they expected to weed thru his mistakes and shortcomings, to find the real facts.
 

[David]

Dean whats your take on Cliff Stamp? Not trying to open a can of worms just curious.   

[Dean51]

Dean whats your take on Cliff Stamp? Not trying to open a can of worms just curious.   

Then we will leave the can closed 

[Dean51]

Choosing steel is just a mater of what you expect from a knife. If you want easy to sharpen it's out there. If you want edge retention it's out there. The same with toughness, it's there, if for some reason you would want to chop with a knife.
I enjoy a blade steel that performs and I haven't found that point of point of diminishing returns yet,
 
I had two jobs in the mid 70's that planted a complaint about knife steels in my head and it stayed there.
One job was a bit varied but I would often cut the top off boxes to stock parts for the assemblers and cut the sides out of boxes for better access to the parts. Too many days I've had to sharpen that stockman every night, sharpening can get old when you have to.
The other job was in a tool and die shop, why was it, I could hog off a pound of steel on the lathe and not sharpen my cutter but a few cardboard boxes would dull my Case Stockman.

About 15 years ago I started discovering these so called super steels. I've been in knife heaven ever since.
Some care what the knife looks like, how well it fits the hand and how fast it will whip out and deploy.

I care what the knife looks like and how well it fits the hand and pocket, But I could care less how fast it will whip out and deploy. I fill that space with Blade geometry and steel type, How well it cuts and how long it will cut.

I picked up a S90V blade a couple months back and love it. Easier to sharpen than I expected and it stays sharp to the point it blows M390 out of the water.
I will be the first to admit it's not for everyone, jump in to CPM S90V with out the proper sharpening gear and you'll be a very unhappy camper.

[Nix]

S90V is good stuff. 

[David]

Dean whats your take on Cliff Stamp? Not trying to open a can of worms just curious.   

Then we will leave the can closed 

Amen!   

[Gerhard Gerber]

For me the interest is sort of academic.........I'm surviving without a super steel no worries......

That's why I love Spyderco, if I had the money I'd have one of their knives in each of these super steel, preferably spread over 2 or 3 models 

But I don't so I don't 
 

[Gerhard Gerber]

rather not...

[cody6268]

I guess I take things a bit too seriously. I look up the steel from manufacturer and distributor pages, then base my decision on buying the knife (usually more of the carbon content, as that oftne determines edge retention) on the metallurgy of the steel, taking in effect how decent the heat treat is--I have 440As that have to be sharpened frequently, then others (Vic steel, which is essentially 440A, as well as Eickhorn) that have such good heat treats, they don't have to be sharpened that often. 

[Aloha]

I like is how super steels have come about as an improvement to more familiar steels.  Sure we can get along with more basic steel but for what purpose.  I appreciate the fine tuning of the next steel as an attempt to improve upon features and qualities.  While I don't have all the latest and greatest steels I sure appreciate all the options.  I'd love to get my hands on come CPM CRU WEAR and CPM M4 for starters. 

[ReamerPunch]

I voted for no preference. I am ok with Victorinox steel, or Leatherman 420HC.
I went with stainless when it came to my Opinels and Moras. I guess I'd choose stainless over carbon given the option.

The only kind of high end steel I have is the 154CM blade of the Charges. Certainly nice, but for edc, as long as it takes an edge, I am good to go.

[CallsignBadger]

I voted for no preference. I am ok with Victorinox steel, or Leatherman 420HC.
I went with stainless when it came to my Opinels and Moras. I guess I'd choose stainless over carbon given the option.

The only kind of high end steel I have is the 154CM blade of the Charges. Certainly nice, but for edc, as long as it takes an edge, I am good to go.

+1 

[sak60]

I voted carbon. But in reality anything will do as long as it’s not too soft (douk douk) or too hard.
I find it annoying if a steel won’t keep a decent edge and boring if I don’t need to sharpen it for weeks on end.