I just picked up some CRKT tools... somewhat impressed, but somewhat not as well

[ChopperCharles]

I snagged a Zillatool (big version), a Guppie, a Bivy, a Eat 'N Tool, and a "my first knife" wooden multi tool for a good price on eBay. I just wanted it for the Zillatool and the Bivy, the rest were a bonus.

So, first off the Zillatool. I like the spring-loaded handle; very smooth action and a great feel. The jaws are robust and it's very difficult to deflect them at the tips. The tool feels good in the hand. For the size of the handle, however, the jaws are on the small side. They could have put much bigger, more useful jaws in there.  The pocket clip is really, really nice to have. The bit driver works as expected. I was disappointed with the flip-open blade. It doesn't flip open with one motion, it opens most of the way but doesn't lock. I have to flick it with my wrist to get it to lock open. I'd prefer a regular thumb thingy on the blade (what is that even called?) for one-handed opening. The blade itself is nice, very sharp, with the type of serrations that are easy to sharpen.The big drawback, other than the too-small pliers, is that the cutters are smurf. They can't cut anything. Not thin wire, not thick wire, definitely not wire with insulation on it. Copper stranded wire is completely out. The cutters are just poorly designed and implemented.

Next, the Guppie. This isn't a tool, it's a toy. First off, the jaws. They're terrible. Lots and lots and lots of play. The adjustable jaw rocks horribly. I've had dollar store adjustable wrenches with better tolerances and less play in the jaws. It's abysmally bad. The carabiner is in an awkward position. I don't see it usable for clipping or holding on to anything. The LED works but is quite dim. The pocket clip is usable, but again awkward. This tool is small enough that a pocket clip is unnecessary, and the extended bits catch on my pocket when trying to clip it or remove it. It's really awkward to use. The blade is okay, but holding the tool to use it is again quite awkward.  The best part about the tool is the bit driver. It works. It's the only tool that doesn't feel completely awkward to use.   This tool to me is a resounding fail. I don't like it at all.

The Eat 'N Tool is just a big heavy-duty spork with a bottle opener and some hex-shaped cutouts that make it seem like a useful tool. It's not though. If they had just made it a spork, I'd like the thing. Instead it's short and stubby and, following with the Guppie theme, awkward to hold and use. I need my spork to be a spork. It needs to be first and foremost shaped like an eating utensil, with a proper handle. This isn't. It's just stupid.

Next up, the CRKT Bivy. I've wanted one of these for ages, ever since I saw a Youtube review where the guy abused the hell out of one and it survived admirably. I straight up want to love this tool. But it too has serious flaws. It has a lot of great points as well. The blade is amazeballs. AMAZE. BALLS. It's super sharp. It holds an edge for ages. It's big and beefy. I could stab this into anything and there is no chance of the blade bending or being damaged in any way. BUT, the liner lock doesn't always fully engage. And when it does, it's just BARELY catching an edge of the back of the blade. Tolerances aren't good. The knife needs to be disassembled, and the back of the tang needs to be hit lightly with a file. That's disappointing, and dangerous.

The pliers are massive and robust. They're a little thinner than the zilla tool pliers, but they're significantly larger and longer. That said, the zilla tool actually opens wider and has a larger bolt-gripping area. The jaws are precise and can pull out arm hairs (so can the Zilla Tool). They're nice long needle nose pliers, and quite useful. However, they're very, VERY difficult to deploy. The switch on the side of the knife actuates all sorts of levers inside, to both unlock the (spring-deploying) pliers, and unlock the other three tools. This button is ridiculously stiff. Even after lubricating the tool, it's far, far too stiff. Quite simply, there's not enough leverage for the sliding button to work all the mechanisms inside. Or the spring inside is too stiff of a rate. In either case, the implementation of this design is flawed. What it means for use is that instead of getting a nice plier-flip-open when needed, I struggle to find a way to hold the tool so that I can put enough leverage on the switch, and also not block the pliers from deploying. If my fingers are in the way and hit hte pliers as they deploy, then I'll have to use my other hand to deploy them fully, defeating the entire concept of one-hand opening pliers. The wire cutters don't. They can cut bare stranded wire and very thin wire, but for anything else the wire jams in the cutters, and the jaws stick closed. I have to pry the jaws apart, and then the wire falls out, bent rather than cut.

Finally the remainder of the tools. There are three. a marlin spike, which is quite nice. A 2D phillips driver, and a flat head driver with bottle opener. The 2D phillips is worthless. It's formed badly, and doesn't slot into any screws around my house. The slots aren't centered, and it's at the wrong angle anyhow. It's a very, VERY poor phillips driver. One of the worst I've ever encountered. The flat driver/bottle opener is better... but the nail nick is hidden by the handle. There's a cutout on the liner next to the driver, but there's no cutout on the handle itself (though there is plenty of room for it). Getting to the bottle opener requires a key or another tool. Or maybe lee press-on nails. There's just not enough room to get a nail into the nail nick. I dunno about you, but getting to a beer-opening tool quickly is rather a necessity, and this completely fails in that.  And again, to unlock these tools once deployed, that super-stiff switch is used.

It's very much like they designed this tool, and then never tested or used it at all. The ergonomics completely fail.  This is striking when compared to the Outu spring-loaded plier knife. The outu is extremely well-designed, with all tools locking, a very robust and well-formed phillips driver, a OHO bottle opener/screwdriver, and spring-deploying pliers with good wire cutters. And it's a sub-$15 Chinese tool. But they got the damn ergonomics DOWN. Everything on that knife is designed and implemented WELL. Not so with the CRKT. Which is disappointing, as it's a $45 knife.

Finally, the wooden "my first knife" thing is a joke. Give it to a kid and it'll be broken in seconds. It's not held together by anything other than friction of wooden dowels. And again, it shows a very poor implementation of design, as the "tool" cannot close all the way because of the shape of the jaws interfere with faux "backspring".

So in short, I'm disappointed with CRKT. I was expecting a lot more from the Bivy in particular. The Zillatool matched my expectations, except for the poor wire cutters. The Bivy was disappointing in SO many ways though. It's such a good idea, and they got so CLOSE to it being a good tool... but missed the mark due to poor implementation.  I'd frankly rather have my $14 Outu over the Bivy.


Charles.

[smiller43147]

Sorry that you weren't entirely happy, I'm sure you had high expectations.  Sounds like you bought a lot of used EDC on the bay.  So you can probably unload it the same way for what you paid for it.  Not a bad way to try out some new gear.
This illustrates the big problem of buying anything on the internet.  All the pretty pictures in the world aren't going to give you the kind of feedback that holding a tool in your hands for 2 minutes will.

[Poncho65]

CRKT has been hit or miss for years I have a Guppie and Lil Guppie and like them overall but as you pointed out they do have their flaws I have looked hard at the Bivy and have just never found (read as not looked good enough probably ) a Zila tool with the price I am willing to pay  great read 

[ChopperCharles]

Well I snagged everything in this post for $41. My thinking is that I basically bought the Zillatool and the rest was free. And because of that I’m not upset or anything. The Zillatool is a decent quality tool and I like it well enough. The Bivy I still want to love. I’m thinking about opening it up to see if I can increase the leverage somehow, but even if I can the extra tools still present a problem. I like nodding tools... but not when I have to mod them just to get them to a base level of useability. :/

Charles.

[RF52]

If you don't want the Bivy I'm interested
Just saying in case you want to get rid of it.

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

[Nix]

Sporks are most useful when they have an extra-long handle. Some food containers are deep and a nice long handle is great for those. Eatin' Tool? I never got that. Why not just use you fingers at that point?

[ChopperCharles]

I’m going to take the bigy apart and see if the leverage issue can be fixed. My thumb is actually really sore from playing with the tool, and I can’t deploy the pliers now. I haven’t been playing with it a lot either. It’s just that bad.

If I can’t fix the bivy I am going to try to swap the blade into something else.

Charles.

[ThePeacent]

I had this tool that is very similar to the Bivy, to the point that I believe it was made in the same Asian factory and re-branded, with slight changes, much like the Buck X-Tract,



I use dit for 4 days in Berlin this past week and brought it because it was disposable but decent and usable enough
For that, I removed its thumbstud to make it Germany legal (two handed opening and locking)     and it was used to twist off some canned food tops (to avoid cutting oneself or slipping into the sharp edge) and to repair a zipper in one of our bags.

Also, the bottle opener popped open a variety of German beers 

Finally I tried to cut a metallic strip/band with it, but it failed to cut it (bent it and the plier jaws got stuck every time)  . Applying more force only resulted in jammed jaws, and when I finally released them, the tool would't shoot open anymore, now the pliers always open halfway with the spring, never in full 

So it was defeated by a 5mm wide, 2mm thick steel band, and it works flawed now, has to be opened manually for the plier to lock open 
Wasn't expecting that but Oh well, it was 10 bucks after all and served for other things during the trip (locking can/bottle opener was fiddly and hard to unlock, though)

The blade also cut a few tags from items we bought there

[ChopperCharles]

Well, I can already tell your clone has a better phillips driver!  How difficult is that button to slide? If the clones have a better operating mechanism, I'll be very amused.

Charles

[ThePeacent]

Well, I can already tell your clone has a better phillips driver!  How difficult is that button to slide? If the clones have a better operating mechanism, I'll be very amused.

Charles

easy peasy on the pliers in both opening and closing
a bit stubborn on the closing of the can opener/ flathead but oddly enough not on the Phillips, that one is smooth all the way 

also the Phillips fits the adapter from the LM Rebar, Gerber MP600, MP800, etc. 

[ChopperCharles]

Well, how would I go about finding one of those? None of the search terms I've used have done me any good.  I'm greatly amused that the Chinese took a good design with poor implementation, and fixed all the problems. That's just cool.

Charles.

[ChopperCharles]

Today I took apart the CRKT knife to see what it's about. First thing I found is that there is really no way to make the switch easier to operate. I'd need a thinner piece of spring steel precisely stamped or machined to replace the existing spring. There's just no way for a layman to do that. There's likewise not enough space to add helper springs inside. It's impossible to fix the stiffness without CRKT redesigning the spring.

The next thing I found is that there was one too many steel washers on the blade pivot. This caused the outer liner to bulge around the pivot. Since the liner is screwed down in several places, the liner belt slightly, which put the blade at a slight angle. This is what prevented the liner lock from engaging. I removed the extra washer, and then the liner fit correctly, without a bend, and the liner lock works a lot better after that. It's still not perfect, if I open the knife slowly often it will still not lock. I have to open it with some force for the liner lock to engage properly. So I still need to file a dash off the stop on the blade, but the blade is at least usable now.

While I had the CRKT apart, I took my Outu knife apart and compared the blades. The CRKT blade could be made to work in the Outu, but it would require a sleeve for the pivot, some filing of the blade tang where it hits the close stop, so it can close all the way, and sleeving the stop on the outu where the blade opens fully. It could be done. I think, however, I'd rather find a Chinese copy of the CRKT, and then swap over the CRKT blade. Or perhaps swap over the spring from the China copy. It depends on the quality and how closely identical the knives are. And if I can even find one of the copies.

Charles.

[ThePeacent]

Well, how would I go about finding one of those? None of the search terms I've used have done me any good.  I'm greatly amused that the Chinese took a good design with poor implementation, and fixed all the problems. That's just cool.

Charles.

well, the model name is Rcharlance HS - C002 but that yields few results on Google,
so I'll just tell you that I got it from that web we cannot link that contains the words "Gear" and "Best" one after the other



If you want to swap the blade, I don't really know if it'll fit, but this one seems to be of decent quality but I haven't tested it muhc,
and the thumbstuds in it were really easy to pry off with small Knipex pliers 

[ChopperCharles]

Interesting... why can't that be linked? Did I miss some drama? 

Charles.

[ThePeacent]

Interesting... why can't that be linked? Did I miss some drama? 

Charles.

you cannot link to certain Chinese websites (AliB---, G--rBest, DHG--e, etc.) because years ago they sent SPAM, messages and constant emails to members here  to convince them to receive Chinese tools and in exchange post positive reviews, videos, opinions and publicity of them, 

Grant and others got bothered by that attitude (understandably of course) and forbid those sites to be linked here 
I think it more or less goes that way 

[ChopperCharles]

So I picked up the orange knife from Beer Guest, and it arrived today. I have side-by-side with my CRKT Bivy... and... well....  they're damn near identical.  The pliers are made from the same casting. They're exactly the same shape, and have the same tooth count. The plier handles also have exactly the same shape. The internal springs are the same, and the action on the switch is roughly the same. It is slightly easier to open the pliers on the orange copy than the original Bivy. There is less initial resistance, and the mechanism feels smoother. However, it is MORE difficult to unlock the other tools. Which is okay, because I can half-open another tool to unlock it, and that works reliably and perfectly every time. I have yet to disassemble it, but it appears the copy has modified the pivot point of the mechanism to favor ease of opening the pliers, which in turn makes unlocking the tools more difficult. This is, in my opinion, a great change. The Bivy is definitely more difficult to open the pliers than to unlock the tools, and the pliers are the more important, useful tool.

Now to more similarities and differences. The pliers on both have significant side-to-side deflection. I can close the plier tips and easily bend the tips apart. On the Bivy, they bend apart in one direction easily, and in the other direction with much more difficulty. (This is due to the side cutters). For the copy, there is slightly more deflection in the difficult-to-bend direction, but significantly less in the opposite direction. Ultimately the deflection is roughly the same and not worth worrying about.

Now I said the pliers and spring mechanisms are the same. The differences are the liners, scales, blade, and tools. The blade is sharpened very well, and it appears to have the same tang shape. It even has the same notched pattern on the top, and the same thumb stud for OHO. I haven't disassembled the knife yet, but it is highly likely that the CRKT blade will swap in to the copy. That said, the copy's blade is very nice. It's sharpened to 20 degrees, not 25 like most china blades. It's thick and it has a regular shape with a good belly, so it will work for food prep, unlike the CRKT's blade. That said, the CRKT blade comes a lot sharper from the factory, and I like the tanto tip. The CRKT blade is the best part of the CRKT knife.

The tools in the orange one are FAR superior to the CRKT. The CRKT has a marlin spike, a really TERRIBLE and poorly-formed 2D phillips, and a flat driver with bottle opener. The copy has a very nice 3D phillips. It's beefier than even the phillips driver in my Gerber MP600. It's the best tool on the knife. It is, however, too large to fit in any of the bitdriver adapters I have. Just FYI. Next, there is a nice can opener with a nail nick at the tip. It really extracts nicely, and works well. It locks onto the rim very nicely and it has a sharpened cutting edge. MP600/Victorinox forward-moving opener. Finally, the flat driver/bottle opener. The flat driver is almost identical to the Bivy's. It's obviously the same blank... however, the nail nick is moved slightly closer to the edge of the tool, meaning it can be reliably and easily opened every time. The nail nick on the Bivy's flat blade/bottle opener is tucked down too much, and it's impossible to extract unless you have long fingernails.

The fit and finish on the Bivy is better than the copy. The copy has some machining marks on the scales that were just anodized over, as well as some spots and discoloration of the anodizing. It also arrived with a scratch on one of the scales. The Bivy has better finish on the scales. The copy is a tip-down pocket carry, and the CRKT is tip-up. I don't particularly care either way, but some people have an opinion on which is better. That said, the smooth and rounded scales on the copy fit better and feel better in my hand, vs the blocky and angular "chunky" Bivy tool.

It's obvious to me that these two knives were made in the same factory, by the same people. Overall, knowing what I now know, I would honeslty skip the Bivy and buy the copy. The copy has a slightly easier latch mechanism, which is nice... but the big draw for me is a very good phillips driver and a flat driver that can be extracted with ease, instead of frustration. The can opener is a nice touch, and makes this knife something I could even take camping. I greatly prefer the blade that's in the CRKT Bivy. I like the tanto and the large, easy to sharpen serrations, and the Bivy blade is likely made with better steel. And since I have both... I'm probably going to swap the Bivy blade into my copy, and then sell the remainder of the Bivy for parts.


Charles.

[Alan K.]

The Bivy was sold as a rigging knife, hence the serrated blade and the marlin spike.  I always thought it looked way too bulky to carry comfortably for the tool load out that it has.  The orange version does look like it would be better for general purpose use.

[ThePeacent]

so, your tool has the same issues than mine (scratchy scales, harder to unlock tools but easier to use the pliers, and a rounded, relatively comfortable grip compared to other Chinese tools) 

enjoy it and I look forward to any mods you do