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Gerber MP extended reach

00 Offline Sam Lim

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Gerber MP extended reach
on: September 07, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
A little bit of background on the mod. I had always special feelings for Gerber MPs for their pliers and handle splay. Its quite unbeatable imo. The short reach for their internal tools is the Achilles heels for many, including me. Due to the slid out design, they will always lose out to the butterfly opening design tools that can extend one side of the handles for longer reach on their driver. I really want to do something to counter this problem and had crack my head over it for a long while.

Here, I somewhat give u an extra 1.5in of extended reach for a slide out design. A proof of concept.

The subject that was "sacrificed" had the rivet popped in the handle and I dun see how it can be re-peen/repaired.. For the better good... Also, the sliding area with the screws and spring studs is very robust.


Handle splay was opened up cos I am a chicken and I do not want to be bitten... Big thanks to GLBM today for showing me his modified washers. Worked much better than expected! Thanks GLBM!




Ok.. here's the more interesting part... The individual handles can be slide out independently for the shorter tools.  :cheers:


Extra grooves made to lock the pliers in place so they do not slide around when using the extended mode. By default, the pliers will stay shut as well.


Not entirely a finished job. More of a trial and error and fitting. I will eventually transplant the pliers to a 400 due to the locking tools. Or even a 600 for extra tool load. We'll see.

 :multi:




« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 05:38:12 PM by Sam Lim »


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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #1 on: September 07, 2018, 07:15:02 PM
You never cease to amaze!  :like:


us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #2 on: September 07, 2018, 08:04:07 PM
You never cease to amaze!  :like:

 :iagree: :o :like: :like:

That is just awesome Sam :dd: :drool:


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #3 on: September 07, 2018, 08:43:45 PM
 :iagree: with the two,
you're a box of cool surprises mate!!  :o :like:
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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
Excellent work as always Sam nice one  :like: :tu:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


ca Offline holder228

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 02:27:02 AM
I think this is my new favorite mod. This is amazing. Im going to have to look into doing this to my MP600


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #6 on: September 08, 2018, 02:34:55 AM
That is just as much of a work-of-art, as a great mod, Sam! :salute:
Your ingenuity and skills with modding and mechanical understanding are very impressive. I like how "elegant"(for lack of a better word) your mods are. They usually seem to be things that the manufacturer should have done. :tu:
A little touch-up filing and smoothing of edges, and that is a real winner. :)

Glad the washer pics helped. That was a hair puller when I was picking/grinding washers that wouldn't get in the way to much with the engagement pin. The extra splay is not taken for granted. :ahhh
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 02:37:12 AM by gerleatherberman »
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
Thanks Everyone!   :hatsoff: Hell loads of fun with this mod!

A bit of update.

The pliers are now transplanted to a 600.




Internal tools selection. Should have used a saw blade exchanger in place of the SE blade... But that will do for now. Threw in a LM Wave soooo excellent diamond file for fun.


Short-ish tools clears the half extension and accessible by nail nicks. Added a tiny semi oho utility blade for quick and fast slashing..



And so lastly, a very satisfying shot for you. Who have tried and fail at this attempt? :pok: :pok:


 :multi:


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #8 on: September 08, 2018, 11:46:23 AM
excellent results,  :o
and I love that cute tiny utility blade   :dd:
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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #9 on: September 08, 2018, 12:39:51 PM
Why is that so beautiful!  :ahhh :drool:

I hope Gerber people are taking notes.  :pok:


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #10 on: September 08, 2018, 12:50:02 PM
Why is that so beautiful!  :ahhh :drool:

I hope Gerber people are taking notes.  :pok:

I found a sweet spot on my desk for phototaking..  :P


wales Offline magentus

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #11 on: September 08, 2018, 05:17:48 PM
 :hatsoff: Sam. You are an amazing modder. Great work!
'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #12 on: September 08, 2018, 05:20:28 PM
 :iagree: :clap:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


us Offline NetsNJ

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 06:36:32 PM
Will be interested to see how these pliers hold up to heavy use.  Seems like this will be a very weak design but I could be wrong.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 07:00:12 PM
Will be interested to see how these pliers hold up to heavy use.  Seems like this will be a very weak design but I could be wrong.

I must admit, that was my concern too. I like the idea of one arm extending, but it seems that a lot of rigidity and strength has been sacrificed to achieve it. Interesting concept though  :tu:


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00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #15 on: September 09, 2018, 07:54:11 PM
Will be interested to see how these pliers hold up to heavy use.  Seems like this will be a very weak design but I could be wrong.

I must admit, that was my concern too. I like the idea of one arm extending, but it seems that a lot of rigidity and strength has been sacrificed to achieve it. Interesting concept though  :tu:

The concern is definitely there. Me too will not trust this for heavy work,.. yet.  :cheers:

Some technicality here.. In a stock MP, the only mechanism that prevents the handles from giving way are the 2 main rivets joining the handles. Its not a big rivet by any means.. The one I did rely on the 2 top screw on the slider. The bottom 2 screws does not receive any pressure.

Layman's pov, I think it might take a whole lot of pressure/force to break the top of that screw..

Will have to take this for a spin for some trashing to find out.  ;)





gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #16 on: September 09, 2018, 08:45:10 PM
Point taken on the rivet diameter. However, they are further forward from the effective fulcrum point of each handle section (bottom edge of plier trunnion) than the uppermost retaining screws are, thus subjecting them to less force. The counter point to my own arguement being that the pivot is in shear force, and the uppermost retaining screw is in tension - and identical pins are only 0.75x as strong in shear as they are in tension... but the difference in distance from effective fulcrum is enough to counter this.

It will be interesting to see not just how that screw fares under tension (which it ordinarily wouldn't be), but also how the guide channels themselves fare. As designed, there would be full face contact between the guide channels and plier trunnions, with the force all acting in one direction. With this modification, there's opposing forces, with partial contact between channel and trunnion at the bottom, and the sole point of contact at the top, is the underside of that little dome head screw. A lot of force focussed in a small area. :dwts:

I don't want you to think I'm being intentionally derogatory about your work Sam, merely sceptical, and I don't want folks rushing into copying you, and ending up with grossly compromised tools  :salute:

I look forward to the testing, and what effects may occur. I'm expecting that if the screw doesn't go ping under tension, that the channel may deform, and depending on the force used, the screw might even pull through the slot.  :ahhh

I look forward to the update  :cheers:


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #17 on: September 09, 2018, 09:10:13 PM
Point taken on the rivet diameter. However, they are further forward from the effective fulcrum point of each handle section (bottom edge of plier trunnion) than the uppermost retaining screws are, thus subjecting them to less force. The counter point to my own arguement being that the pivot is in shear force, and the uppermost retaining screw is in tension - and identical pins are only 0.75x as strong in shear as they are in tension... but the difference in distance from effective fulcrum is enough to counter this.

It will be interesting to see not just how that screw fares under tension (which it ordinarily wouldn't be), but also how the guide channels themselves fare. As designed, there would be full face contact between the guide channels and plier trunnions, with the force all acting in one direction. With this modification, there's opposing forces, with partial contact between channel and trunnion at the bottom, and the sole point of contact at the top, is the underside of that little dome head screw. A lot of force focussed in a small area. :dwts:

I don't want you to think I'm being intentionally derogatory about your work Sam, merely sceptical, and I don't want folks rushing into copying you, and ending up with grossly compromised tools  :salute:

I look forward to the testing, and what effects may occur. I'm expecting that if the screw doesn't go ping under tension, that the channel may deform, and depending on the force used, the screw might even pull through the slot.  :ahhh

I look forward to the update  :cheers:

 :salute:

All the points are taken in good intention. Though I do not quite understand the first part.. I have to read through that again. That's too much for me to digest atm.. The full force is now on the screw and I can imagine if the screw breaks, the screw head will fly. And that's dangerous.

I am usually quite careful with my Mts and is a light to mid duty user. I am skeptical on this mod at first. But then it's a really fun project to work on. Especially on the longer reach on the drivers. The usage on the pliers will be attempted with super caution.  :cheers:


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 09:12:09 PM
Sam, if you do experience problems, and if you can make sense of my quickly scribbled sketches, this might restore some of the lost strength  :salute:

IMG_20180909_200243_1067_800.jpg
* IMG_20180909_200243_1067_800.jpg (Filesize: 34.55 KB)
IMG_20180909_200758_1067_800.jpg
* IMG_20180909_200758_1067_800.jpg (Filesize: 37.62 KB)


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 09:36:10 PM
That's one hell of a sketch! Appreciate the detailed explanation! Keep plate somewhat in!..

*edit.. Removed the ad-hoc thing as its interfering too much on the sliding..

Actually not too worried on the frame.. More concerned on the screw breakage.. Will look into this further.

 :salute:

IMG_20180910_033422-684x912.jpg
* IMG_20180910_033422-684x912.jpg (Filesize: 81.47 KB)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 09:55:34 PM by Sam Lim »


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #20 on: September 10, 2018, 01:40:29 PM
remember the failure of my PaulChen Multitasker that uses the same system... :whistle:
Show content




those are tricky pesky sliders  :ahhh :twak:
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MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #21 on: September 10, 2018, 02:10:41 PM
remember the failure of my PaulChen Multitasker that uses the same system... :whistle:
Show content




those are tricky pesky sliders  :ahhh :twak:

That looks rather catastrophic. How did you manage that?


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #22 on: September 10, 2018, 02:51:35 PM
I can understand that's plastic. But was that over tightened or something?


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #23 on: September 10, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
For what it is worth, but knowing I'm not an engineer and this is my observation/experience, the Pinchy plier screws are absurdly strong. From my experience, everything Gerber utilized on the Pinchy was well underrated. I would guess the screws are of high grade with good tensil strength, compared to other typical steel screws.

But, if the screws do break, suitable screws can be sourced. Without checking (and please correct me if this is wrong), they look like 10-24 threads.
Edit: checked with my die sets and the Pinchy screws on my V.3 appear to be M5 0.9. Anyone else find theirs to be different?
Photo shows that this was the only die the screw fit into on the tight end of the die with no play, and threaded all the way
20180910_095605.jpeg
* 20180910_095605.jpeg (Filesize: 86.62 KB)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 04:59:02 PM by gerleatherberman »
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #24 on: September 10, 2018, 05:11:29 PM
For what it is worth, but knowing I'm not an engineer and this is my observation/experience, the Pinchy plier screws are absurdly strong. From my experience, everything Gerber utilized on the Pinchy was well underrated. I would guess the screws are of high grade with good tensil strength, compared to other typical steel screws.

But, if the screws do break, suitable screws can be sourced. Without checking (and please correct me if this is wrong), they look like 10-24 threads.

I can understand the concerns of 50ft and Net. Though me too think likewise as you do about the strength of the screw, their concerns would be the durability/strength after doing this modification. And of course the safety. The moment on failure, I can imagine how catastrophic the effect might be, it may even be more than a bad pinch. Even I  myself would definitely not put it to the kind of hard use as I would on a normal MP. That said, even a stock tool may fail. Sensibility is the key.  :salute:  :salute:

This, will definitely not match up to a 20yr old proven design. Pliers strength/durability, is surely compromised. For the extra reach, I personally think it's a rather acceptable trade off.  :cheers: :cheers:


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #25 on: September 11, 2018, 04:21:21 AM
For what it is worth, but knowing I'm not an engineer and this is my observation/experience, the Pinchy plier screws are absurdly strong. From my experience, everything Gerber utilized on the Pinchy was well underrated. I would guess the screws are of high grade with good tensil strength, compared to other typical steel screws.

But, if the screws do break, suitable screws can be sourced. Without checking (and please correct me if this is wrong), they look like 10-24 threads.
Edit: checked with my die sets and the Pinchy screws on my V.3 appear to be M5 0.9. Anyone else find theirs to be different?
Photo shows that this was the only die the screw fit into on the tight end of the die with no play, and threaded all the way


I dun have that to check.. But mine appears to be a M5 with the "rougher" thread. Not the fine threads one.. Using eyeball gauge.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #26 on: September 11, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
Standard coarse pitch on M5 is 0.8mm, fine is 0.5mm


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #27 on: September 11, 2018, 08:32:43 AM
50ft,
In your experience, would a 0.9 pitch M5 be close enough to the standard coarse 0.8 pitch M5 work on the Pinchy(since the length isn't a big issue with them)? Without tapping the threads of course. :think:
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #28 on: September 11, 2018, 12:34:26 PM
50ft,
In your experience, would a 0.9 pitch M5 be close enough to the standard coarse 0.8 pitch M5 work on the Pinchy(since the length isn't a big issue with them)? Without tapping the threads of course. :think:

I thought the 0.9 might be an error, but it turns out to be a Japanese (JIS not ISO) standard. As to whether it would be close enough, my answer would be no - even though it will vary by application...

For each turn of engagement, the discrepancy will increase by 0.1, so after three turns you'd be 0.3mm out. For a thread engagement to be as strong as the bolt diameter, the engagement length needs to be the same as the diameter(assuming male and female thread are in the same metal grades and condition) - so 5mm. By this point, you'll be trying to get 6.25 turns on the screw into the same space as 5.55 turns in the nut.

If there was only a turn and a half of engagement, you might be able to force it, but what good would that be?  Also, running a tap down the threads would just strip the originals. If the "nut" is 0.9, find a 0.9 screw ;)


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Gerber MP extended reach
Reply #29 on: September 11, 2018, 04:06:21 PM
Thank you, 50ft! :salute:
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


 

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