What is that file stuff?

[cbl51]

For about 20 years I carried a classic on my keyring and got pretty used to the file. That weird ruff stuff that seems to be bonded with plating to the tool. But for the past month and a half I've been carrying my new executive and have become a new convert to the 74mm SAK. Of course thes is my first experience with the kind of real cut file that is on the executive, as my classic and my cadet is the rough stuff that I'm used to. I think I may like the new kind of file a bit better, but I'm curious. Can someone tell me just what is, and how the stuff on the classic nail file is and how it's made?

I'm curious as to the why and how Victorinox used the rough stuff for so long and if it's a more expensive kind of nail file to make, since it appears to be a more wide spread kind of file than the cut file on the executive.

[smiller43147]

That cut file is actually an old design that's coming back (new Cadets have them).  Everything old is new again.
I don't know how they are made.  I've thought they might just be an EDM'ed surface on the steel. (ellectrical discharge machining)

[hiraethus]

Yep, it's made by EDM.  It's a slow process, but I expect it's cheaper when done to a large batch of files than cutting the file texture.

[AimlessWanderer]

I'd always assumed it was peened, like hundreds of little indentations had been pressed in. It would make more sense to EDM a press tool, rather than each nail file... 

[hiraethus]

True. But wouldn’t you see quite a big variation in roughness with tool wear?

[AimlessWanderer]

Good question.... but you'd regularly switch tooling at a point that would give consistent results. I don't know how many impressions such a tool would make before it started losing definition...  in fact, you could probably monitor it with a simple load cell - when pressure increases beyond a certain limit to press at the required depth because the tips are blunt, index the tooling. That would retain efficiency in automation, and ensure consistent results.

A nail file doesn't need to be that hard, even with a SD tip, so there'd be a fair difference in hardness between that and the tooling. Plus the tooling could be ground and recut, so you wouldn't have extortionate consumable costs, and you could automate tooling production/refurb too.

The classic file is such a low cost component, produced in enormous batches, so the cycle time must be tiny. I'm struggling to see EDM as a viable process route

I'm just thinking out load here

[cbl51]

Okay, what's a EDM and is it depositing material or just roughing/pitting up the surface thats already there?

I understand the cut file process, but the elm is an unknown to me. The file on the classic seems durable as I've had a classic for several years and used the file not only as a nail file, but on plastic, some softer metals like brass and copper with no ill results.

[AimlessWanderer]

Okay, what's a EDM and is it depositing material or just roughing/pitting up the surface thats already there?

I understand the cut file process, but the elm is an unknown to me. The file on the classic seems durable as I've had a classic for several years and used the file not only as a nail file, but on plastic, some softer metals like brass and copper with no ill results.

EDM is electrodischarge machining. Metal removal by spark erosion

[hiraethus]

You may very well be right Al. Hadn’t considered pressing the EDM pattern into the file blank, but it does make sense. After all, that’s how Victorinox make the nail nicks and tang stamps.

[gustophersmob]

You may very well be right Al. Hadn’t considered pressing the EDM pattern into the file blank, but it does make sense. After all, that’s how Victorinox make the nail nicks and tang stamps.

I didn't realize the nail nicks were pressed. I always assumed they were machined. Learned something new.

[AimlessWanderer]

You may very well be right Al. Hadn’t considered pressing the EDM pattern into the file blank, but it does make sense. After all, that’s how Victorinox make the nail nicks and tang stamps.

I didn't realize the nail nicks were pressed. I always assumed they were machined. Learned something new.

I believe the blade taper from spine to edge is pressed too, so the only machining needed is the pivot hole and final edge grind.

[gustophersmob]

You may very well be right Al. Hadn’t considered pressing the EDM pattern into the file blank, but it does make sense. After all, that’s how Victorinox make the nail nicks and tang stamps.

I didn't realize the nail nicks were pressed. I always assumed they were machined. Learned something new.

I believe the blade taper from spine to edge is pressed too, so the only machining needed is the pivot hole and final edge grind.

Huh. I'm at a loss for how that works. Seems like different areas of the blade would have odd internal compression forces. But, I have no idea about that kind of stuff.

[gustophersmob]

The discussion about nail nicks and grinds got me curious. I just rewatched this how it's made. At the 0:47 mark they say the nail nicks are stamped in when the blade blanks are stamped.

At 1:45 or so, it shows that the full flat grind is actually done by grinding.

Haven't seen anything about the original topic of nail files.

[smiller43147]

Huh. I'm at a loss for how that works. Seems like different areas of the blade would have odd internal compression forces. But, I have no idea about that kind of stuff.

You are correct, there is a lot of "cold work" in areas like the nail nick, but that all gets erased/evened out when the blade is heat treated.

[pfrsantos]

The discussion about nail nicks and grinds got me curious. I just rewatched this how it's made. At the 0:47 mark they say the nail nicks are stamped in when the blade blanks are stamped.

At 1:45 or so, it shows that the full flat grind is actually done by grinding.

Haven't seen anything about the original topic of nail files.

Yup, looked around but didn't find anything about it. Not even a simple text explaining the process.

 

[WWW]

Has anyone seen the new 2018 White Xmas? File seems to be cut. Skip to 4:20 for the file. And will the white eyeglass screwdrivers be available separately? I much preffer the white over the grey.

[Serena]

I chatting with the Dutch Victorinox company on Instagram. Asked for the white screwdriver because I have the 2017 Christmas edition.
She's sent a mail to Switzerland, so now I have to wait. Hope they can get me a white one.

[Serena]

Got a reaction today from Victorinox. The white mini screwdriver was made especially for the Christmas Sportsman and won't be sold separately.
Too bad!!!

[Reinier]

Did they really say Spartan?

[Serena]

No, Sportsman. My bad.

[Reinier]

No, Sportsman. My bad.

Ah No offense BTW.

[Serena]

No, Sportsman. My bad.

Ah No offense BTW.

Haha, none taken.

[WWW]

Got a reaction today from Victorinox. The white mini screwdriver was made especially for the Christmas Sportsman and won't be sold separately.
Too bad!!!

What a pity!!! I would like to have a few.