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Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018 2870

No Life Club Posts: 1,166
Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« on: September 11, 2018, 08:36:51 PM »


Sr. Member Posts: 365
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 09:10:28 PM »
Hmm, not sure how this one is striking me.  The minted coin thingie is kinda cool, but the price seems quite high and I wish they had used a Pioneer (or similar Alox model) instead. 

But still, if they sell it in the US I'll probably pick one up...
No Life Club Posts: 1,166
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 09:45:25 PM »
Yes, an Alox model would be nice...
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,754
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 09:55:52 PM »
I like the coin but agree that it should be a Alox SAK

fail to prepare prepare to fail
Hero Member Posts: 696 SAK 4 life
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 09:57:26 PM »
Yeah $120 for a Huntsman is pretty steep.

No Life Club Posts: 1,862
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 10:14:04 PM »
 :iagree: in Alox I would be at the head of the line! Now as far as this one goes...100 euro is $115.90 and for what it is, I would be a buyer. If its still around the 27th I will be buying one.
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,206
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2018, 07:43:38 AM »
The should have gone all the way and made a pre-1900 SAK :drool:
Imagine a 1884 SAK with brass detail and white horn scales... maybe in 2034 :D

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,115 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 07:56:04 PM »
Yeah $120 for a Huntsman is pretty steep.

Try €190 over here...

 :facepalm:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,754
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 08:00:47 PM »
Yeah $120 for a Huntsman is pretty steep.

Try €190 over here...

 :facepalm:
:sa:  that’s just way to much  ???

fail to prepare prepare to fail
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,115 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 04:33:23 PM »
Yeah $120 for a Huntsman is pretty steep.

Try €190 over here...

 :facepalm:
:sa:  that’s just way to much  ???

That's what everybody said!

 :facepalm:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,754
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 04:35:53 PM »

fail to prepare prepare to fail
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,115 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 04:47:05 PM »

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

No Life Club Posts: 1,862
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 05:09:33 PM »
Too much??? I think at $120 it isn’t that bad of a price. Limited Edition...nice scales...nice box/presentation...and a very cool coin.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,145
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 05:15:20 PM »
And mark my words.
Like usual, they'll sell out in no time.
After a few weeks they'll pop up on the bay at inflated prices between 20-80%

Buy now or regret later
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,754
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 05:18:21 PM »
Too much??? I think at $120 it isn’t that bad of a price. Limited Edition...nice scales...nice box/presentation...and a very cool coin.
$120 isn’t bad but €190 is $220
Now that is expensive  >:(
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 05:19:41 PM by Wspeed »

fail to prepare prepare to fail
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,115 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 06:49:38 PM »
Too much??? I think at $120 it isn’t that bad of a price. Limited Edition...nice scales...nice box/presentation...and a very cool coin.
$120 isn’t bad but €190 is $220
Now that is expensive  >:(

Yup. At $120, I might buy a couple!

 :-\

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Sr. Member Posts: 365
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 11:00:31 PM »

$120 isn’t bad but €190 is $220
Now that is expensive  >:(

But you also get a 20 Franc silver coin.  How many beers will that buy in CH?  ;)

Hero Member Posts: 696 SAK 4 life
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2018, 04:29:02 AM »
Too much??? I think at $120 it isn’t that bad of a price. Limited Edition...nice scales...nice box/presentation...and a very cool coin.


Given that you can get a regular Huntsman for $30, you are paying ninety bucks for unique printing on plastic scales, a fancy cardboard box and a coin. Hardly seems worth it to me, but I am sure they will sell like hotcakes either way.  :dunno:

No Life Club Posts: 1,862
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2018, 06:33:46 AM »
Very true. If we all had the same taste, well, life would be a little boring.
Hero Member Posts: 812
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 02:41:05 PM »
Too much??? I think at $120 it isn’t that bad of a price. Limited Edition...nice scales...nice box/presentation...and a very cool coin.


Given that you can get a regular Huntsman for $30, you are paying ninety bucks for unique printing on plastic scales, a fancy cardboard box and a coin. Hardly seems worth it to me, but I am sure they will sell like hotcakes either way.  :dunno:

+10...  :facepalm:

I know collectors love and value that stuff... but as much as i try to understand... I couldn't bring myself to imagine cashing out $120 for a sak when you can buy the same model for $30, and then have it neat in the box, doing nothing other than to be on display and to be looked at...

I just don't get this later "obcession" of Vic with LE' and SE's (at ridiculous prices i might add) of just standard models with fancy scales, nice boxes and memorabilia...
How about worrying about  "silly" and "less important" stuff like "evolution", "development", new sak "tools", materials, improving existing models and other "silly" things for people who actually use the darn things daily like, you know..., to cut stuff up... turn screws.... open things.... etc...

I get that charging obscene prices for standard models labeled "collectors items" makes for a way larger profit margin... but com'on guys... how many bloody LE's is enough every darn year...?   :rant:

"Another Day...; a whole n'other set of fresh possibilities..." - MacGyver (S1E19 - "Slow Death")
Sr. Member Posts: 403

EMZ nl

****
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 10:55:43 PM »
Today I payed a visit to the Cologne Vic store. The Karl Elsener set was released on September 10, and 40 sets were assigned to the shop in Cologne. They were all sold within 2 days! It is all madness and the worst is that I am part of it.

A little bit more than 35.000 of the special coins are minted. They can be bought without the knife, but not at a Vic store.
No Life Club Posts: 3,311
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 11:13:59 PM »
If people don't hurt their personal economy, what's the problem?
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 1,938
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2018, 12:20:19 AM »
Got real mixed feelings on these LEs.  :think:
On the one hand I think we are being exploited by being charged exorbitant prices for dressed up standard models.
And especially in this case   :twak:

On the other I think Vic are catering to the avid Vic collector and brining out something really special that will make them (us) very happy   :tu:   -  even if it does sit in a box for the rest of its life!!   :(

I think the annual Alox LEs are a happy medium - I have not checked - But I am guessing they are the same price-ish as the regular models - But still something nice to collect - or even to use - as a nice 'variaton' in a pretty colour - and not too expensive.

Although to me these are not really LEs, as they are unlimited in quantity - I would call them Special Editions.   :pok:

What is very disappointing is if the quality is suspect on the inflated price LEs.
I did succumb to the Carl Elsener Explorer and a PX Damascus - Sadly, the two most expensive - by a long long way - SAKs I ever bought (from Vic) were of the worst quality.
The scales did not match on the Explorer (different wood colour and grain), they did not fit brilliantly, and the laser etching was not great - we discussed this a lot at the time.
On the PX the spring had a very weak snap.
   
This was super disappointing  >:(   :(

And of course the other maddening thing is how the prices excalate once the LE has happened - Eg the 2010 Damascus Pioneers - Amazing - Although again, this is just supply and demand, economics, market prices and individual personal desire and wealth/affordability (or stupidity  :o) - depending on your point of view!!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:36:29 AM by Huntsman »
No Life Club Posts: 1,862
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 01:06:14 AM »
Got real mixed feelings on these LEs.  :think:
On the one hand I think we are being exploited by being charged exorbitant prices for dressed up standard models.
And especially in this case   :twak:

On the other I think Vic are catering to the avid Vic collector and brining out something really special that will make them (us) very happy   :tu:   -  even if it does sit in a box for the rest of its life!!   :(

I think the annual Alox LEs are a happy medium - I have not checked - But I am guessing they are the same price-ish as the regular models - But still something nice to collect - or even to use - as a nice 'variaton' in a pretty colour - and not too expensive.

Although to me these are not really LEs, as they are unlimited in quantity - I would call them Special Editions.   :pok:

What is very disappointing is if the quality is suspect on the inflated price LEs.
I did succumb to the Carl Elsener Explorer and a PX Damascus - Sadly, the two most expensive - by a long long way - SAKs I ever bought (from Vic) were of the worst quality.
The scales did not match on the Explorer (different wood colour and grain), they did not fit brilliantly, and the laser etching was not great - we discussed this a lot at the time.
On the PX the spring had a very weak snap.
   
This was super disappointing  >:(   :(

And of course the other maddening thing is how the prices excalate once the LE has happened - Eg the 2010 Damascus Pioneers - Amazing - Although again, this is just supply and demand, economics, market prices and individual personal desire and wealth/affordability (or stupidity  :o) - depending on your point of view!!
Oh boy, Those two would make me pretty shy about even buying a 3 edition. You hit the nail on the head with prices and supply/demand. That can get very crazy. I try not to add something where it just sits. It usually will see some pocket time and I have bought a second of something as a backup because I lost it or it wore out from age.
You are right about Vic catering to the collector. They are in the business to sell things, To keep their employees sharp and creative. What can the company do to create new customers and changing the outside is one way. From a pen to a car body. The item has a basic foundation so they are not loosing any time on redoing the machinery for retooling. By limiting the numbers produced they still make a profit and interest. Just my 2 cents.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:37:17 AM by Huntsman »
No Life Club Posts: 2,768 <><
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 01:10:36 AM »
Today I payed a visit to the Cologne Vic store. The Karl Elsener set was released on September 10, and 40 sets were assigned to the shop in Cologne. They were all sold within 2 days! It is all madness and the worst is that I am part of it.

A little bit more than 35.000 of the special coins are minted. They can be bought without the knife, but not at a Vic store.

Ooh, that's interesting. All I'm interested in is the coin.  Do you have any idea who's selling the coins? Depending on the price I'd love one

If the trees blew down the wind and no one was around, would the alphabet song really go backwards?
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,224 I'm blue!
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 09:12:15 AM »
I think prices of limited editions will escalate no matter what Victorinox ask for them initially, so it only makes sense for them to get their share of the profit.
Hero Member Posts: 812
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 11:32:21 AM »
You are right about Vic catering to the collector. They are in the business to sell things, To keep their employees sharp and creative. What can the company do to create new customers and changing the outside is one way. From a pen to a car body. The item has a basic foundation so they are not loosing any time on redoing the machinery for retooling. By limiting the numbers produced they still make a profit and interest. Just my 2 cents.

While it may be interesting for the company in terms of profit, it's sure as hell not that interesting for thousands of users around the world i can guarantee...
The average Sak user/enthusiast  (utility pocket knives/tools), they could care less about if it has fancy scales, blades, a LE numbering or a nice box with "case candy" on it. They just want a utility blade/scissors to cut stuff with and a few handy multifunction tools to have in their pocket when needed. And the most effective and diverse and reliable the tool can be the better.
Wenger was far better in the R&D of inventive new stuff, and in creativeness for inventing new tools. Yes they did some ridiculous stuff too along the way, but overall (quality issues aside) they where far more inventive, creative and adventurous than Vic has been (at least in the later years).

I think that's way more interesting than the 300th same 'ol regular spartan with the 300th different scales and fancy LE/SE boxes.

"Another Day...; a whole n'other set of fresh possibilities..." - MacGyver (S1E19 - "Slow Death")
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,145
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »
True, Mac, on all accounts.

But people who just want a plain user, can buy one just like that.

And why should Vic produce new tools or try new things when they can make profit on their LE's that sell by themselves?

They are still a company, and every company's goal is to make profit.
They choose the easy way to do so instead of taking risks. Not only is it safer for a company's wellbeing, but also way more appreciated by any investors.

Also note that Wenger is a thing from the past. They existed in a time where knives were something that wasn't frowned upon. Times changed...
This actualy caused them to end up on a dead trail and submerged in Vic!

So what Vic did was start a line of fragarances, clothing, travel gear, laptop bags etc etc.

It might not feel like it to us, but they are more then just SAKs nowadays.
Why invest thousands of dollars in a product that is losing popularity overall?
They keep updating their other products nonetheless.

Buy now or regret later
Newbie Posts: 10
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2018, 12:34:30 PM »
I would prefer an Alox model as well (hopefully in the future), but this is still nice though.
Especially the commemorative coin looks amazing! I certainly want one off those  :drool:

Some more info on the coin itself can be found here (source: official website Confédération suisse):
https://www.swissmintshop...41ED8A6C49454152735EA.pdf
Hero Member Posts: 812
Re: Karl Elsener Gedenkmünze-Set 2018
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2018, 12:59:51 PM »
True, Mac, on all accounts.

But people who just want a plain user, can buy one just like that.

And why should Vic produce new tools or try new things when they can make profit on their LE's that sell by themselves?


They are still a company, and every company's goal is to make profit.
They choose the easy way to do so instead of taking risks. Not only is it safer for a company's wellbeing, but also way more appreciated by any investors.

Also note that Wenger is a thing from the past. They existed in a time where knives were something that wasn't frowned upon. Times changed...
This actualy caused them to end up on a dead trail and submerged in Vic!

So what Vic did was start a line of fragarances, clothing, travel gear, laptop bags etc etc.

It might not feel like it to us, but they are more then just SAKs nowadays.
Why invest thousands of dollars in a product that is losing popularity overall?
They keep updating their other products nonetheless.

I understand what you are saying, but profit (for the sake of profit) does not justify everything, at least for me.... I'm that kind of "dreamer" that still believes in professional "pride", and "passion", way more than in "money"... And because that's what the company was created for in the first place, it's main goal... Providing high quality utility pocket tools at reasonable prices.

They don't need to invent and produce new tools every year, however if they spent just a little bit more time and resources in updating/creating a new tool now and again, as much as they spend in thinking up "SE/LE's" it wouldn't hurt the profits, and may even sell some more thousands to new and old users.

If they like the LE/SE's so much, why not make more with (more sturdy and durable) nickel liners for example (like the gold ed. climber) of more models and sizes?
Why not bring back the bloody scissors on the 84mm line? At least the Salesman and small Climber? Or at least adapt the ex-Wenger Evo scissors to go with it...?
Even if in limited numbers for some time, even at a slightly higher but reasonable price?  I can't believe that would hurt profits that bad....
To make the old 84mm scissors again, all they need is the two stamping molds for the machine, not the entire machine itself, cause those machines multitask. I can't believe those molds cost to be so unbelievably high that they wouldn't get their investment back and even make profit on it within a year of selling that model worldwide.
That goes for creating or updating a tool or two (or materials) once in a while...  :think:

Or why not enhance the alox main line with models with more tools, for example...?

I for one would gladly spent 40/45€ in a Salesman/Climber small with nice nickel liners for example, than i would ever spent even €100 for the fanciest LE/SE in existence of just another standard model with fancy scales, when it adds nothing in terms of quality and function, and only in aesthetics and colectability.

And speaking about knives (larger blades)  being frowned upon, why not a 84/91mm model or two with just a small blade (or two) instead of having a main blade, or even bladeless models? That wouldn't take any extra cost to make.
Imagine an 84/91mm for example, with a layer with a small blade on one end  and an electricians blade on another instead of the main (larger) blade, with scissors. Wouldn't that sell well...?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 01:20:00 PM by MacGyver »

"Another Day...; a whole n'other set of fresh possibilities..." - MacGyver (S1E19 - "Slow Death")

 

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