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GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool 1534

No Life Club Posts: 2,842
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2018, 08:57:32 AM »
Care to give more details on the tool lock/release mechanism? That would interest me a lot. The renderings and drawing suggest a conventional PST-like passive spring-type detent and not an active lock, but I'm sure not all details of the actual mechanism are shown here.

Whatever the mechanism is that you guys came up with, it seems a far from trivial task to make this work reliably and still solid and usable enough, assuming it is not based on simply withdrawing a tool pivot pin like with all the other replaceable tools on the market.

Don't be afraid to show... Your provisional patent should be sufficient proof against copying...   ;) :D :cheers:

The provisional patent gives me filing date for coverage for 12 months with PCT and EPO  :)

This [simple] animation shows the basic functionality of the pivot system. The only thing not shown is the bottom of the handle bending as the tools are pivoting, in real life the metal is applying pressure against the tools (as well as locking the tools when they are extended). This force keeps the tools stable and in place, while being rotating through angles you might think would be unstable.



Thanks very much for the explanation, this makes it rather clear what you intend to do. I've given it some thought. Kudos for the simple design - however I feel I have to draw your attention to the following issues that I see with this mechanism:
1. The tools do not actively lock in the extended state, it seems. As I surmised, it is more like a sprung detent mechanism (the spring opening is forced over the implement's lock stud by the bias of the spring, but moving the tool into the closing position makes the spring lift off the stud). Have you considered the effect of wear on the interacting surfaces of the spring opening and the studs? (Apart from the spring possibly weakening over time?) Also, it seems that adverse forces on an extended implement might easily cause it to close on a user's hand (ouch!), at least (much) more so than e.g. LM's or Vic's or SOG's active locking systems.
2. Have you considered the fact that the mechanism makes it very difficult to apply a 90°-opened locked position, which would be handy for Phillips or flat blade drivers or the bit driver? Applying a force almost, but not quite, in line with the implement opened at 90° might cause it to slip off the pivot.

Edit:
3. A half tang is less than half as strong as a full one...
4. Wear on matching pivot and tang surfaces is quite critical, I think. To make this work you'd need to use a very hard steel... hard steel is brittle... and then see previous point. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:19:38 AM by Dutch_Tooler »

Cheers!
Dutch_Tooler

Location: Southern Germany, most of the time
No Life Club Posts: 2,842
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2018, 09:12:15 AM »

GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.

I like that name for sure after it’s explanation!

+1 - and the logo. A tie, indeed!

Cheers!
Dutch_Tooler

Location: Southern Germany, most of the time
No Life Club Posts: 1,929 Yersinia Pestis & Campylobacter Jejuni!
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2018, 12:15:47 PM »
It does not look like a finished product at all. More of a prototype stage to test the interchangeable tools. The engineering may be solid, but the product design is sub par, and I seriously question how you are going to market a tool named Goat? Who on earth came up with that?
The concept is very good, but for now it is back to the drawing board for me.

You are correct, it is in the prototype stage. As we stated in the original post we are transitioning from 3D printed to metal prototypes to fine tune the fit, function, and test durability. :)

GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.

Ok, I was not aware it was an acronym. Now you have explained the meaning I made the connection with your post signature and your avatar of the gentleman goat wearing a tie.Thumbs up and wishing you good luck.

Once you go black you never go back
@blackdiamonds_42
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,761
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2018, 09:50:55 PM »
GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.
Not for women then?  ;) :pok:

Newbie Posts: 33 Custom & Modular
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2018, 11:08:02 PM »
Thanks very much for the explanation, this makes it rather clear what you intend to do. I've given it some thought. Kudos for the simple design - however I feel I have to draw your attention to the following issues that I see with this mechanism:
1. The tools do not actively lock in the extended state, it seems. As I surmised, it is more like a sprung detent mechanism (the spring opening is forced over the implement's lock stud by the bias of the spring, but moving the tool into the closing position makes the spring lift off the stud). Have you considered the effect of wear on the interacting surfaces of the spring opening and the studs? (Apart from the spring possibly weakening over time?) Also, it seems that adverse forces on an extended implement might easily cause it to close on a user's hand (ouch!), at least (much) more so than e.g. LM's or Vic's or SOG's active locking systems.
2. Have you considered the fact that the mechanism makes it very difficult to apply a 90°-opened locked position, which would be handy for Phillips or flat blade drivers or the bit driver? Applying a force almost, but not quite, in line with the implement opened at 90° might cause it to slip off the pivot.

Edit:
3. A half tang is less than half as strong as a full one...
4. Wear on matching pivot and tang surfaces is quite critical, I think. To make this work you'd need to use a very hard steel... hard steel is brittle... and then see previous point.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns! We greatly appreciate the insight we are gathering from people beyond ourselves in the MT world.

1. It seems my explanation and renderings are not properly representing the MT. The tools do lock (the cutouts in the tools fit into the 'spring' section of the handle once fully extended, it is not just spring tension holding them open), requiring the locking arm to be slightly depressed, the locking arm presses the spring down & out of the tool void, thus allowing the tool to be refolded. It is a very similar locking mechanism to Schrade ST1 MT. We will be able to provide real life examples once we get the prototypes back from machining.
2. We will be testing the use of the tools at 90 degrees, you are correct that it might retain less stability. We have gone through dozens of iterations on the pivot design to give it the most security when in use, and still maintain the ability to quickly swap tools. The current design has been our best balance.
3 & 4. We are making the prototypes in varying materials & heat treatments to find out what combination will provide the best possible quality and life of the tool.

Thank you all again for your input! I'm looking forward to sharing our progress with you all as we move closer to a final product!

Gentlemen of All Trades
www.GOAT.tools
Newbie Posts: 33 Custom & Modular
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2018, 11:12:04 PM »
Not for women then?  ;) :pok:
Plot twist: It was a woman that came up with the name! :tu:

Gentlemen of All Trades
www.GOAT.tools
No Life Club Posts: 2,842
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2018, 01:47:40 PM »
Thanks very much for the explanation, this makes it rather clear what you intend to do. I've given it some thought. Kudos for the simple design - however I feel I have to draw your attention to the following issues that I see with this mechanism:
1. The tools do not actively lock in the extended state, it seems. As I surmised, it is more like a sprung detent mechanism (the spring opening is forced over the implement's lock stud by the bias of the spring, but moving the tool into the closing position makes the spring lift off the stud). Have you considered the effect of wear on the interacting surfaces of the spring opening and the studs? (Apart from the spring possibly weakening over time?) Also, it seems that adverse forces on an extended implement might easily cause it to close on a user's hand (ouch!), at least (much) more so than e.g. LM's or Vic's or SOG's active locking systems.
2. Have you considered the fact that the mechanism makes it very difficult to apply a 90°-opened locked position, which would be handy for Phillips or flat blade drivers or the bit driver? Applying a force almost, but not quite, in line with the implement opened at 90° might cause it to slip off the pivot.

Edit:
3. A half tang is less than half as strong as a full one...
4. Wear on matching pivot and tang surfaces is quite critical, I think. To make this work you'd need to use a very hard steel... hard steel is brittle... and then see previous point.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns! We greatly appreciate the insight we are gathering from people beyond ourselves in the MT world.

1. It seems my explanation and renderings are not properly representing the MT. The tools do lock (the cutouts in the tools fit into the 'spring' section of the handle once fully extended, it is not just spring tension holding them open), requiring the locking arm to be slightly depressed, the locking arm presses the spring down & out of the tool void, thus allowing the tool to be refolded. It is a very similar locking mechanism to Schrade ST1 MT. We will be able to provide real life examples once we get the prototypes back from machining.
2. We will be testing the use of the tools at 90 degrees, you are correct that it might retain less stability. We have gone through dozens of iterations on the pivot design to give it the most security when in use, and still maintain the ability to quickly swap tools. The current design has been our best balance.
3 & 4. We are making the prototypes in varying materials & heat treatments to find out what combination will provide the best possible quality and life of the tool.

Thank you all again for your input! I'm looking forward to sharing our progress with you all as we move closer to a final product!

Thanks - I've taken another look at the video (now on a 27" monitor rather than my phone :D) and can now see how the unlock lever is supposed to work (although the video does not show that the spring is lifted off the implement's studs), and in addition I somehow had the idea that you weren't turning the pivot for the tool release action but simply counteracting spring retention. But of course you are turning the pivot. Neat feature, that. (I actually thought of including that as a mod to improve my faulty picture of how your tool worked, if that makes sense, but I'd have had an outside pivot turning clip thing - your solution as combination unlocking and release arm/lever is nicer).

I'd suggest that the next iteration of your promo video should be a little clearer as to the twin unlock and release functions of the lever (the latter also clarifying the turning of the pivot). You may want to give the lever (and pivot (?)) a contrasting colour, at least in the video (and, who knows, also IRL(?)).

That means I was wrong on item 1 and in part on item 2 - please disregard. Good luck with the development, and please keep us informed!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 02:00:49 PM by Dutch_Tooler »

Cheers!
Dutch_Tooler

Location: Southern Germany, most of the time
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,413
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2018, 03:07:42 PM »
GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.
Not for women then?  ;) :pok:

Nor despicable men  :facepalm:

I like the acronym.  I generally think GOAT = Greatest of All Time.  Gear of Advanced Thinkers? 

Esse Quam Videri
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,761
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2018, 10:56:30 PM »
GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.
Not for women then?  ;) :pok:

Nor despicable men  :facepalm:
I have been discriminated against yet again.  :facepalm:

No Life Club Posts: 1,006
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2018, 11:20:18 PM »
GOAT = Gentlemen Of All Trades. Because our MT was designed from the start to be modular, we are looking forward to customers of varying professions, backgrounds, and lifestyles customizing it up as it suits them.
Not for women then?  ;) :pok:

Nor despicable men  :facepalm:


I have been discriminated against yet again.  :facepalm:

Could be worse - you could have been a despicable woman...  :D

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,761
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2018, 11:32:48 PM »
 :rofl: True!

 :b2t:  :popcorn:

Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,413
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2018, 12:14:20 AM »
 :rofl:


Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 2,842
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2018, 08:36:49 AM »
I like the name too. Apart from the acronym, goats are renowned for their ability to live in rough terrain.

Cheers!
Dutch_Tooler

Location: Southern Germany, most of the time
No Life Club Posts: 1,929 Yersinia Pestis & Campylobacter Jejuni!
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2018, 09:52:03 PM »
Isn't Gentlepersons the politically correct and gender inclusive version of Gentlemen?  :pok:

Once you go black you never go back
@blackdiamonds_42
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,761
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2018, 10:21:59 PM »
What would be the politically correct and gender inclusive version of Ladies then?  :think:

No Life Club Posts: 3,188
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2018, 12:38:23 AM »
Oh no, lets please not be politically correct. :facepalm:

Chop On, Rise Up, and Hail Southern!
Newbie Posts: 9
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2018, 03:26:32 AM »
The pivots are interesting, but I have some inquiries. I'm making assumptions in my reasoning, so please correct me in places where I'm mistaken. The pivots are shown to rotate to allow the tools to be removed, correct? It looked like the pivot is attached to one of the outer tools to allow ease of access. Generally the outer tools are long ones that someone might use the most. Have you had any issues with the pivot catching on the tool cutouts when it rotates? What about tools slipping off the pivot unintentionally?
No Life Club Posts: 2,145
Re: GOAT Tools Modular Multi-tool
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2018, 10:53:30 PM »
The basic design looks like it would be very heavy duty, and able to handle anything I would throw at it. The only criticism I have is a personal one--I hate replaceable cutters, as the milling out for them weakens the plier head.

I'm curious, what steel type will you use for the plier head? I would prefer a forged tool steel or D2.

 

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