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Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?

es Offline alexTOOL

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Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
on: September 21, 2018, 10:16:24 AM
I am looking for a SILVER Rambler alox, not color.

Prices in internet are ridicolously expensive for second hand ones (from Swiss Bianco)

I wonder if I can get one in color and remove the color with a sand paper or sander (it would leave the aluminum without protection for rust??)

Any experiences? :dunno:

Probably the cheaper would be to get a Modder for a custom one...  :oops:

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:17:57 AM by alexTOOL »


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 11:45:28 AM
I wouldn't mind having whatever alox model in whatever colour. Having said that, I have no idea. I know that coloured alox starts to wear off with use. Don't know if you can speed up the process without ruining the scales...

 :think: :think:
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wales Offline magentus

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 11:49:34 AM
I wouldn't mind having whatever alox model in whatever colour. Having said that, I have no idea. I know that coloured alox starts to wear off with use. Don't know if you can speed up the process without ruining the scales...

 :think: :think:
Yeah, I wondered that too Santos. Sanding would definitely ruin the finish. Aluminium won't rust though so you wouldn't compromise the corrosion resistance I wouldn't have thought.

Hopefully your wanted ad will get you a silver one - good luck!  :tu:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 12:33:50 PM
Years ago on another forum a guy named OupaDirk used to make what he called "melted scales" where he took a Dremel tool to the checkering and made it look like it was melted.  It was an interesting concept and really cool looking.  Of course, no coloration would survive on the outside, but the edges and interior wouldn't change.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 12:55:06 PM
Something we've seen in "worn out" alox (red, for instance) is that the colour remains in the grooves. It makes sense, since it's applied to the entire surface and the inside of the grooves are somewhat protected from the erosion caused by friction while using the tool.

 :-\
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



no Offline Steinar

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Removing the color from colored alox would simply removing the "ox" and leaving the "al". I.e., you'd get a bare Aluminum surface. So, it would be "silver" color and softer than a silver alox (and any other alox).


us Offline G-Dizzle

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Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 04:33:33 PM
I think Steel wool and a long weekend are your best bet. Or maybe a chemical
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 04:34:41 PM by gdoolittle »


us Offline G-Dizzle

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Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 04:35:55 PM
Removing the color from colored alox would simply removing the "ox" and leaving the "al". I.e., you'd get a bare Aluminum surface. So, it would be "silver" color and softer than a silver alox (and any other alox).
This makes me wonder if someone could “rainbow” the scales after doing this. That would be cool.


gb Offline Jaypeebee

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 04:52:24 PM
I would imagine a wire brush attachment on a Dremel or similar would have the desired effect!


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 05:38:27 PM
It is super easy to make a rambler (and this coming from an office guy) from a Alox  MiniChamp.
All you need is a hammer, a center punch, metal file a piece of soft wood and a clamp. I wanted to post this a long time ago... so long, I don't even know if I still have the images :facepalm:

1) put alox minichamp on soft wood.
2) use the center punch to push out the pins (they will simply go into the wood. The wood holds the whole thing well enough for the next steps.
3) remove alox scale
4) remove layers you don't want
5) put alox scale back on and lift it out of the wood.
6) put it on hard surface. and push pins back in
7) use file to shorten pins
8) hammer pins

Found the pictures... or at least some.
rambler_01.jpg
* rambler_01.jpg (Filesize: 85.51 KB)
rambler_02.jpg
* rambler_02.jpg (Filesize: 85.33 KB)
rambler_03.jpg
* rambler_03.jpg (Filesize: 76.44 KB)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 05:40:02 PM by Etherealicer »
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 06:00:49 PM
So you just slammed the pins through??
No drilling them first?


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 06:38:37 PM
So you just slammed the pins through??
No drilling them first?

This.  Doesn't the head of the pins damage the scale, as you pin them down into it?

 :think: :think:

Awlso, how many (minimum) layers can/must you remove and still manage to pin the SAK back? When you push the pins through the scale, they loose their flat head. You need at least 1mm, maybe more, of round pin to be hammered back into a wider "head" to hold the scale in place, right?

Do you just hammer the pin head as much as possible? Are the springs slightly thicker than the tools, allowing the tools to open/close freely even when the springs are fast pressed into the scales?

 :think: :think:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 07:21:21 PM
So you just slammed the pins through??
No drilling them first?
No drilling... found this out by accident, wanted to punch, so I could drill, turns out that there is no need for the drill.

This does NOT work with 58mm celidor (brass collar will tear), 91mm or 93mm (nothing happens with the larger ones, even if I pre drill holes into the wood for the pins to go in), I tried.

This.  Doesn't the head of the pins damage the scale, as you pin them

Awlso, how many (minimum) layers can/must you remove and still manage to pin the SAK back? When you push the pins through the scale, they loose their flat head. You need at least 1mm, maybe more, of round pin to be hammered back into a wider "head" to hold the scale in place, right?
Nope... works really well and its much easier to avoid damage to the scales when compared to drilling

Removing one layer will do the trick... I did not try this but it is possible that you could put it back without removing any layer. After all, the material from the head is still there. I think you need about 0.5mm to peen, it really takes very little.

Honestly, the hardest part is the peening, its also the part that most likely will damage your scales. Oh and the filing, I did put some tape over the scale but I guess you simply could remove the scale and file.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:38:25 PM by Etherealicer »
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ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
As for the peening... for this small guys its really not rocket science. the pins don't need to be particularly round or anything. Just tap... test... tap some more... test again.
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 08:04:27 PM
:like:


us Offline ChopperCharles

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #15 on: September 22, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
The scales are anodized aluminum, so yes you can do that. Easy Off oven cleaner will remove the anodization, but will etch the metal if you keep it on too long. If it's etched, no big deal, you can just polish it up... with a q-tip and mother's aluminum polish to get in all the indentations. Will take a while. But otherwise yeah, it's easy to do.

Charles.


us Offline ChopperCharles

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 08:59:52 PM
To answer your other question... you cannot reassemble a knife, even when removing a layer, with the original pins. You need them to be long so you have leverage to move things around. All the backsprings are constantly putting tension on the pins, pushing them out to the side. When the pins are short, there is no way you can force them into plane to line them up with the holes for the next layer. When they're long, that's easy to do.

Charles.


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 09:19:34 PM
I wonder if I can get one in color and remove the color with a sand paper or sander (it would leave the aluminum without protection for rust??)

Like ChopperCharles says aluminium is typically colored as an extra step during anodization. T

The anodization, and thus the color, doesn't go very deep so sand paper will remove both the color and the anodization. Removing the anodization will remove the protection against pitting, and as the anodized surface is actually hard ceramics, removing it will also leave it less abrasive resistant and with softer surface.

Corrosion as such is less of a problem. Aluminium surfaces corrode extremely quickly, and the new corrosion itself forms a new protective layer against further corrosion. Unlike anodizing this layer will be next to nothing thin. (Just thick enough to prevent further corrosion - which is logical as the reach of corrosion itself goes on to make the protection).

Thus, you can remove color with sand paper, and unless you're in extreme environments corrosion is unlikely to be a problem. You might get pitting over time though, and the less hard surface will leave it more vulnerable to scratches and some chemicals. The surface tone and color will likely become less even. (Just as an untreated piece of aluminium).

« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 09:22:58 PM by Vidar »
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(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #18 on: September 24, 2018, 11:32:47 AM
Thank you awl for sharing!

 :cheers: :hatsoff:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #19 on: September 24, 2018, 01:54:37 PM
To answer your other question... you cannot reassemble a knife, even when removing a layer, with the original pins. You need them to be long so you have leverage to move things around. All the backsprings are constantly putting tension on the pins, pushing them out to the side. When the pins are short, there is no way you can force them into plane to line them up with the holes for the next layer. When they're long, that's easy to do.

Charles.
Of course you can... have done it twice already.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #20 on: September 24, 2018, 02:13:43 PM
To answer your other question... you cannot reassemble a knife, even when removing a layer, with the original pins. You need them to be long so you have leverage to move things around. All the backsprings are constantly putting tension on the pins, pushing them out to the side. When the pins are short, there is no way you can force them into plane to line them up with the holes for the next layer. When they're long, that's easy to do.

Charles.
Of course you can... have done it twice already.
:waving:
Hi from another guys who’s done it (conversion of alox harvester to pioneer, recycled the pins).

The important thing is DONT BEND THE PINS. Put the next liner/scale on before tensioning the tool on the spring, especially with high tension tools like the scissors on a 91mm frame with the skinny 2.5mm pins, and sometimes you need extra pin length to be able to do that, but not always.
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


us Offline ChopperCharles

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #21 on: September 24, 2018, 05:13:15 PM
Hrm, I've not been able to reassemble any Wenger knife with the original pins. Maybe Alox are different?

Charles.


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #22 on: September 24, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
Hrm, I've not been able to reassemble any Wenger knife with the original pins. Maybe Alox are different?

Charles.

You don't have the brass colars in alox knives' pins.

 :think: :think:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



th Offline Niro

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #23 on: September 24, 2018, 09:50:41 PM
Alox can easily be removed with caustic soda, normally used for blocked drains in homes.  I have used it on motorcycle parts. Be careful and read some instruction on how it is done before trying.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #24 on: September 24, 2018, 10:27:33 PM
Hrm, I've not been able to reassemble any Wenger knife with the original pins. Maybe Alox are different?

Charles.
What’s the problem? Bent pins or something? :think:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Color could be removed from alox to get a SILVER alox?
Reply #25 on: September 25, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
Hrm, I've not been able to reassemble any Wenger knife with the original pins. Maybe Alox are different?

Charles.
What’s the problem? Bent pins or something? :think:

Maybe because of the brass colars around the pins.
 :dunno:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



 

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