Swisscard - illegal UK knife carry?

[VictorinoxEDC]

Is a Swisscard UK legal?

Now I don't believe it is due to the fact that the blade contained within every Swisscard is of fixed design. Ie - it's not a folding blade.. True, it's so small that you'd be hard pushed to hurt another person with it, but nevertheless, the law is the law and this little blade falls outside of what is clearly defined as being a legal carry knife (without good reason, of course).

Am I right or wrong?

[ReamerPunch]

They arrested someone because he had a potato peeler in a park. it's not looking good for the SwissCard.

[Rapidray]

 
I’m watching to see how our Knights are doing over there. I’ve heard even the Boy Scouts can’t carry a knife anymore.

[GoatDragon]

I used to live in California and the law there did not allow you to concealed carry fixed blade knives (open carry was allowed). The wording of the law specifically outlawed what could be considered a "dirk or dagger". I remember reading about how, legally, most any fixed blade could be considered a dirk or dagger, so if you were going to carry one it had to be visible. While the knife in the Swiss Card is usually carried in a concealed manner, I would laugh hysterically (and then proceed to cry hysterically) if anyone in their right mind would consider it a "dirk or dagger".

However this is California, not the EU. But maybe look up the wording of your relevant local laws and see how you interpret it (and if you want to be safe, how you expect authorities might interpret it).

[VictorinoxEDC]

UK Government Laws on knives:

It illegal to carry a knife in public without good reason (ie, in connection with your employment), unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less.

[Mechanickal]

With that wording...

I'd say that a biro licking bobby will throw you in the slammer for a Swisscard, yes.

[Don Pablo]

I’m watching to see how our Knights are doing over there. I’ve heard even the Boy Scouts can’t carry a knife anymore.

I don’t know about Scouts in the UK, but I am one here in Ireland, which arguably has more restrictive knife laws.
Most of them seem to carry while on camps, and hikes out in the country. Which is technically allowed, especially if you’re a scout.
Carrying knives in the country: fine. Carrying knives as a scout on scout business in the country: even more fine.

The Irish laws say that knives in public are prohibited unless the person carrying them has a good reason. Camping is considered a good reason to have a knife out in the country, but not in the town shop.
Work (such as an electrician) is considered a good reason to have a knife, but only if you are currently in the business of carrying out your work.
Etc....
There are plenty of camping shops selling Victorinox, etc.  Even in the big city. (Nevermind that it’s over priced.  )

I bought three Moras through a scout group buy early this year.  one of which was for my scout brother, and the other is in Texas ( I think).

Technically, the ordinary person doesn’t seem to have to worry about the knife law technically saying that it’s illegal to EDC a SAK. The law is open to interpretation by the police as to what constitutes a good reason to carry a knife, so just don’t do anything stupid/illegal while carrying a small knife such as a Classic, and don’t bring it to the bar, events, etc, and you should be fine.

[Peter1960]

However this is California, not the EU. But maybe look up the wording of your relevant local laws and see how you interpret it (and if you want to be safe, how you expect authorities might interpret it).

Don't mix up EU with UK; there are even great differences in knife laws among EU-countries and as far as I know California and New York are also not comparable in law situation ... you see the point. Therefore looking in the local laws is always good, as you said.

[Don Pablo]

The schengen area law that says you can take knives with a blade of under 6cm on board a plane is pretty good. 
Now if only security got the memo....

[Rapidray]

I’m watching to see how our Knights are doing over there. I’ve heard even the Boy Scouts can’t carry a knife anymore.

I don’t know about Scouts in the UK, but I am one here in Ireland, which arguably has more restrictive knife laws.
Most of them seem to carry while on camps, and hikes out in the country. Which is technically allowed, especially if you’re a scout.
Carrying knives in the country: fine. Carrying knives as a scout on scout business in the country: even more fine.

The Irish laws say that knives in public are prohibited unless the person carrying them has a good reason. Camping is considered a good reason to have a knife out in the country, but not in the town shop.
Work (such as an electrician) is considered a good reason to have a knife, but only if you are currently in the business of carrying out your work.
Etc....
There are plenty of camping shops selling Victorinox, etc.  Even in the big city. (Nevermind that it’s over priced.  )

I bought three Moras through a scout group buy early this year.  one of which was for my scout brother, and the other is in Texas ( I think).

Technically, the ordinary person doesn’t seem to have to worry about the knife law technically saying that it’s illegal to EDC a SAK. The law is open to interpretation by the police as to what constitutes a good reason to carry a knife, so just don’t do anything stupid/illegal while carrying a small knife such as a Classic, and don’t bring it to the bar, events, etc, and you should be fine.

Thanks 

[K9medic]

Sadly I would have to agree that the Swisscard is illegal under UK law without good reason in public.

[VictorinoxEDC]

Sadly I would have to agree that the Swisscard is illegal under UK law without good reason in public.

Utter madness, but yup - that's my thoughts too. Damn UK laws. Useless and only serve to batter the law abiding citizen.

[Don Pablo]

Sadly I would have to agree that the Swisscard is illegal under UK law without good reason in public.

Just take out the knife! 
Or get the knife-less swisscard, that has a glass nailfile in place of the knife.

[ReamerPunch]

A bladeless SAK could be the answer, but the law also extends to scissors, awls, and probably saws as well. Not a lot of tools left.

[AimlessWanderer]

While not catered for in the "sub 3" non-locking provision", I think it would be a very bored copper who was strangely eager to do some unnecessary paperwork (or very silly behaviour by the owner) to lead to confiscation of a Swisscard blade that was carried in the card, in a wallet, in the pocket, let alone anything more severe. With common sense as to the where and when (not airports, schools, etc), and responsible behaviour, I really don't see a Swisscard as anything to fret over.

[SAKPal]

you don't need a bladeless sak in the UK

I carry daily either a small traditional peanut or a 84mm SAK - anything from a small tinker to a walker

there is no issue carrying in on your belt or in your bag/pocket - but on your belt may draw attention to it.

Either way it is very unlikely the police will give you an issue unless you are being anti-social, drunk, or argumentative the chances of them stopping and searching you are virtually zero - in the 25 years I've worked and traveled around London the only time I got stopped was in the days after the underground bombing and I had a small shrade pocket knife on me at the time and it wasn't given more than a quick look

but i do agree the swisscard blade could be an issue under the UK law - whether they would drag you to the station would depend on the circumstances of the stop, they may ignore it, they may advise you of the law, they may confiscate it or they may arrest you, the law is the law but how it is applied is all about the situation

[VictorinoxEDC]

I've carried the Swisscard in my wallet for around three years, but only removed the blade and put it into storage around 2 years ago when a Police Officer warned me that I could be arrested for carrying it. Luckily, I was was in work at the time and it was a friendly warning.

[Don Pablo]

I've carried the Swisscard in my wallet for around three years, but only removed the blade and put it into storage around 2 years ago when a Police Officer warned me that I could be arrested for carrying it. Luckily, I was was in work at the time and it was a friendly warning.

Yes, you COULD be arrested, but see Al’s post for the caveats with that statement.

[cody6268]

A Swisscard in my wallet is a backup tool, but I have started leaving the blade out as most government offices don't allow them, and I always fear taking my knife and MT out and leaving them in the car, but not the Swisscard's blade.   If Vic replaced the blade with let's say, a medium (400) grit diamond file (the Nailcare currently has a glass nail file replacing the blade), as an option, that would be great.

[GoatDragon]

However this is California, not the EU. But maybe look up the wording of your relevant local laws and see how you interpret it (and if you want to be safe, how you expect authorities might interpret it).

Don't mix up EU with UK; there are even great differences in knife laws among EU-countries and as far as I know California and New York are also not comparable in law situation ... you see the point. Therefore looking in the local laws is always good, as you said.

Psh, what's the difference? 


JK, you're right, my bad! 

[Peter1960]

However this is California, not the EU. But maybe look up the wording of your relevant local laws and see how you interpret it (and if you want to be safe, how you expect authorities might interpret it).

Don't mix up EU with UK; there are even great differences in knife laws among EU-countries and as far as I know California and New York are also not comparable in law situation ... you see the point. Therefore looking in the local laws is always good, as you said.

Psh, what's the difference? 

Well, come over travel around EU and learn ...  . But hurry up as next year UK will be no longer part of EU.

[PTRSAK]

The Swiss Card is technically illegal here in Australia, or should I say Nannystralia, because it falls into the description of "Knives designed to resemble or concealed in some other object."  A rule intended to cover the likes of 'sword sticks'.

[Aloha]

Interesting conversation.  Like GoatDragon mentions, here in California a fixed blade maybe carried tho it must be visible.  I'd have a hard time believing an officer when looking at the blade of the Swisscard would be a hard arse  .  If I lived in an area with laws that were not enforced to the letter especially with regards to knifes, I'd error on the side of caution. 

Is a Swisscard UK legal?

Now I don't believe it is due to the fact that the blade contained within every Swisscard is of fixed design. Ie - it's not a folding blade.. True, it's so small that you'd be hard pushed to hurt another person with it, but nevertheless, the law is the law and this little blade falls outside of what is clearly defined as being a legal carry knife (without good reason, of course).

Am I right or wrong?

I think this summarized it best for me.  Even tho I have the legal right to carry a fixed blade here in Cali, I tend to limit where and when I do carry one.  My goal is never have contact with an officer if I can help it.  If you feel there is any possibility of being searched I would not carry items that fall subject to an officers discretion.  Stay legal at all times.     

[captain spaulding]

I’m watching to see how our Knights are doing over there. I’ve heard even the Boy Scouts can’t carry a knife anymore.

I don’t know about Scouts in the UK, but I am one here in Ireland, which arguably has more restrictive knife laws.
Most of them seem to carry while on camps, and hikes out in the country. Which is technically allowed, especially if you’re a scout.
Carrying knives in the country: fine. Carrying knives as a scout on scout business in the country: even more fine.

The Irish laws say that knives in public are prohibited unless the person carrying them has a good reason. Camping is considered a good reason to have a knife out in the country, but not in the town shop.
Work (such as an electrician) is considered a good reason to have a knife, but only if you are currently in the business of carrying out your work.
Etc....
There are plenty of camping shops selling Victorinox, etc.  Even in the big city. (Nevermind that it’s over priced.  )

I bought three Moras through a scout group buy early this year.  one of which was for my scout brother, and the other is in Texas ( I think).

Technically, the ordinary person doesn’t seem to have to worry about the knife law technically saying that it’s illegal to EDC a SAK. The law is open to interpretation by the police as to what constitutes a good reason to carry a knife, so just don’t do anything stupid/illegal while carrying a small knife such as a Classic, and don’t bring it to the bar, events, etc, and you should be fine.

This is the problem with this law and others around the world. When a law is left to interpretation of a police officer or judge it is a gamble every time you step outside of your home. It reminds me of the (I believe) gravity knife law that somewhat recently went into affect in some states in the USA and I think Canada. If you can flick the blade out to deploy it, it is considered a gravity knife. The problem lies in each individuals ability to do this. The owner of the knife may have the blade tightened enough to not be able to do this or have the proper technique for that matter. I have heard of instances where police stopped a man, could not flick the blade out. The police handed the knife around to other police trying to deploy the blade with a flick which none were able to do, then they held the man until a very large, very experienced officer arrived and flicked it open, the man went to jail because of this.... I personally find this sort of treatment and act by the police to be a disgusting show of improper law making. Leaving laws to be interperated by the people who benefit from putting you in jail is in my eyes is criminal at best.

[Aloha]

If its up to the "discretion" of an officer, why take the chance?  I'd rather not debate legality of grey matters with an officer.   

[captain spaulding]

If its up to the "discretion" of an officer, why take the chance?  I'd rather not debate legality of grey matters with an officer.

I do agree with you but it’s affectively banning these knives by scaring people into not “taking a chance”. In my opinion any and all laws should be clear as day with no room for interperitation from anyone, let alone a police officer. Just to be clear, I respect police and honor them for doing what they do on a daily basis. It’s not them but the lawmakers that I think need a wack in the head.

[Don Pablo]

If its up to the "discretion" of an officer, why take the chance?  I'd rather not debate legality of grey matters with an officer.

I do agree with you but it’s affectively banning these knives by scaring people into not “taking a chance”. In my opinion any and all laws should be clear as day with no room for interperitation from anyone, let alone a police officer. Just to be clear, I respect police and honor them for doing what they do on a daily basis. It’s not them but the lawmakers that I think need a wack in the head.

For the most part, I agree with you. But life is too complicated for absolute laws.

Take speeding. Say that there was a law saying that speeders should be written up, etc, the whole nine yards, no exceptions, to make things nice and clear for the law enforcement officers.

What happens when an officer pulls over a man for speeding at night, and his wife’s in labour in the back, and they were rushing to the hospital because it started suddenly and is progressing too fast to wait for an ambulance? The man is at fault for speeding certainly, and we can argue the morality of that in another post.
The officer can’t let them go and give them an escort to the hospital because the law is clear.

They can’t wait for the ambulance, because the wife’s labour is, again, progressing too fast.
The only outcome is a roadside delivery, that could end up imperilling the life of the mother and child.
That doesn’t seem optimal.

[Rapidray]

True!
But have you seen what is happening in China? They are tracking everyone by 2020 thru cameras and it’s showing everyone your credit score. If its good enough you get perks and discounts. But if you been bad...nothing and we won’t go if you even have a record.

[Don Pablo]

True!
But have you seen what is happening in China? They are tracking everyone by 2020 thru cameras and it’s showing everyone your credit score. If its good enough you get perks and discounts. But if you been bad...nothing and we won’t go if you even have a record.

A case of 1984’s “there are no rules, only things that big brother doesn’t like”?

[Rapidray]

True!
But have you seen what is happening in China? They are tracking everyone by 2020 thru cameras and it’s showing everyone your credit score. If its good enough you get perks and discounts. But if you been bad...nothing and we won’t go if you even have a record.

A case of 1984’s “there are no rules, only things that big brother doesn’t like”?

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