EDC a different SAK every day for 31 days #10 - Soldier and Soldier-like

[Syem]

Day 286

E-stamped Soldier '1908' model

The (probably) first non-Victorinox/Elsener/Wenger knife of the year. It is an official SAK and I'm not sure what that E stands for but as I understand its not Elsener. If anyone has any info on that I'd be very happy to know more.

[Rapidray]

Day 286

E-stamped Soldier '1908' model

The (probably) first non-Victorinox/Elsener/Wenger knife of the year. It is an official SAK and I'm not sure what that E stands for but as I understand its not Elsener. If anyone has any info on that I'd be very happy to know more.

Well that is an interesting Soldier, an E stamped. I can’t help but will be on the sidelines. 

[Borg]

My guess would be the E signifies a civilian model blade,  i see the WK but is it possible the other mark is a repair stamp if they changed the blade? i have seen a P but never seen an E before, nice knife 

17,

 Note to a future MTO'er born in 2017-  i have your bysak 

[Rapidray]

Ok, found this in another post...and they list an E - Extra ... a Wenger...hope this helps.

[NutSAK]

My guess would be the E signifies a civilian model blade,  i see the WK but is it possible the other mark is a repair stamp if they changed the blade? i have seen a P but never seen an E before, nice knife 

17,

 Note to a future MTO'er born in 2017-  i have your bysak 

(Image removed from quote.)

The P doesn't replace the tang stamp where it appears though, like this E example does.

[Syem]

About the E, it is listed in "others" (or not Victorinox nor Wenger) on the "couteau du soldat" website... Now theres also a W in that list but there are many others (including "R" and "II") so unless we find some definitive evidence about what these are there's no telling for sure...

I'll have another tricky one on Saturday... Way more awesome and quite intriguing

[Syem]

Day 287

Elsener Soldier '1908' model - 1949

My dad's BYSAK

The Elsener Schwyz tang-stamp is a bit faint but still discernable...
The scales seem to be held onto the rivets by a kind of resin as if they'd been removed at some point. Or its just a weird mixture of solidified rust and wood-fiber goo... Any ideas?

Sorry about the lousy outside picture; That pop-up electrical panel had to be in the shot if I wanted the knife to be in the light and to see the faint blurry rainbow in the Jet d'Eau.

[wengercollector]

About the E, it is listed in "others" (or not Victorinox nor Wenger) on the "couteau du soldat" website... Now theres also a W in that list but there are many others (including "R" and "II") so unless we find some definitive evidence about what these are there's no telling for sure...

I'll have another tricky one on Saturday... Way more awesome and quite intriguing

I`m pretty sure that E stands for Elsener, like W stands for Wenger. You can see those stamps also with a SMV Stamp on the other side.

The II stamp stands for second class elsener knives, about that I`m really sure.

[fred2892]

Did this (above^^^^^^) remind anyone else of this (below vvvvvv)

       

One of my favourite tv shows from the late 60s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Syem]

I`m pretty sure that E stands for Elsener, like W stands for Wenger. You can see those stamps also with a SMV Stamp on the other side.

The II stamp stands for second class elsener knives, about that I`m really sure.

Thanks for the information! I've just searched a bit and found this thread and the below video :


Do you have other sources?
There seems to be quite a bit of speculation but I'm thinking the theory in the thread is quite realistic; E and W-stamped knives were made by other swiss makers which sent knives to Elsener or Wenger for quality control. As for the R the video states it is believed to be Röthlisberger, another big member of the SMV.
I don't see any reason why Elsener and Wenger wouldn't use their normal tang-stamps (like on the other thousands of knives) and the fact some come with the SMV stamp reinforces this line of thought.

[Syem]

Did this (above^^^^^^) remind anyone else of this (below vvvvvv)

        (Image removed from quote.)

One of my favourite tv shows from the late 60s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'd never seen or heard about this before

[Rapidray]

Day 287

Elsener Soldier '1908' model - 1949

My dad's BYSAK

The Elsener Schwyz tang-stamp is a bit faint but still discernable...
The scales seem to be held onto the rivets by a kind of resin as if they'd been removed at some point. Or its just a weird mixture of solidified rust and wood-fiber goo... Any ideas?

Sorry about the lousy outside picture; That pop-up electrical panel had to be in the shot if I wanted the knife to be in the light and to see the faint blurry rainbow in the Jet d'Eau.

Interesting for sure and your dads....cool. 

[Rapidray]

(Image removed from quote.)

Did this (above^^^^^^) remind anyone else of this (below vvvvvv)

        (Image removed from quote.)

One of my favourite tv shows from the late 60s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I remember that series! It was ok.

[Borg]

The P doesn't replace the tang stamp where it appears though, like this E example does.

Good point, i failed to notice that 

It's home from its Swiss holiday  Props to Victorinox repair department, excellent job, i'm delighted with it 

[wengercollector]

I`m pretty sure that E stands for Elsener, like W stands for Wenger. You can see those stamps also with a SMV Stamp on the other side.

The II stamp stands for second class elsener knives, about that I`m really sure.

Thanks for the information! I've just searched a bit and found this thread and the below video :


Do you have other sources?
There seems to be quite a bit of speculation but I'm thinking the theory in the thread is quite realistic; E and W-stamped knives were made by other swiss makers which sent knives to Elsener or Wenger for quality control. As for the R the video states it is believed to be Röthlisberger, another big member of the SMV.
I don't see any reason why Elsener and Wenger wouldn't use their normal tang-stamps (like on the other thousands of knives) and the fact some come with the SMV stamp reinforces this line of thought.

The problem with soldier knives (and all vintage swiss knives) is, that not much certified info is available. Also the common and known books contain some false informations. Why? Because of the lack of certified infos, everybody is looking for hints and sometimes, the hints lead to a wrong direction. For example the R should stand for Roethlisberger. You see a R on a vintage soldier blade, than you`re looking for a knife maker that name starts with an R. And because Roethlisberger is the most known, hubbil says its maybe Roethlisberger. Fact is, at that time, there were many other swiss knife makers with a name that starts with an R. For example ROTH, RIETHMULLER, ROLLI, RIZZI, RENZ, RAIS. The factory of Roethlisberger is very mall by the way, compared to the facilities of elsener or wenger. So I dont see any evidence that those knives with the R are made by Roethlisberger. By the way, I have never seen a 1908 soldier knife with just a R on the blade - but I`ve seen some of them with Victoria on the front side and a R on the other side.

What I heard (no evidence) is, that during the days of the SMV, the knife makers worked together as an unit to supply the army with the amount of knives they ordered. The price was fix, so they wanted to produce them as cheap as possible. They split the production to different companies. So one company produced the awl, another one the blade, some smaller campanies assembled the knives and so on. Because they worked as an unit, they put the SMV logo to the front. The letter on the back was there to track the knives back when there was any problem with it later. Maybe it was like this, that the bigger companies like elsener and wenger produced most of the parts of the knives and send them to the smaller companies for assembling. After that they went back for quality control, that means for a small knife maker, knives with a W back to wenger, knives with an E back to elsener. Then they sent the knives to the army.
So thats why I think E stands for elsener and W for wenger, but that does not mean, that the whole production was made by those companies. Maybe the smaller companies didn`t have the capacity to assemble the ordered numbers from the army, so wenger and elsener made some totally in-house productions and because those knives were not part of the SMV as a unity, they marked them only with E or only with a W.

Victorinox changed the name quite a few times. Over 100 different tang stamps are known.

[VICMAN]

Day 287

Elsener Soldier '1908' model - 1949

My dad's BYSAK

The Elsener Schwyz tang-stamp is a bit faint but still discernable...
The scales seem to be held onto the rivets by a kind of resin as if they'd been removed at some point. Or its just a weird mixture of solidified rust and wood-fiber goo... Any ideas?

Nice pics Syem!

[VICMAN]

The P doesn't replace the tang stamp where it appears though, like this E example does.

Good point, i failed to notice that 

It's home from its Swiss holiday  Props to Victorinox repair department, excellent job, i'm delighted with it 

Nice pics Borg!

[Syem]

Day 288

Elsener Soldier '1961' model - red 1973

Freshly arrived... I bought it "blind" (just a closed blurry pic from the top in a lot with other SAKs) and got rather lucky; Except for the slightly reshaped 1973 (!!) blade, all the tools are in great condition.

[Syem]

Interesting for sure and your dads....cool. 

Well the knife is mine I may gift it to him at the year's end...

[Syem]

Good point, i failed to notice that 

It's home from its Swiss holiday  Props to Victorinox repair department, excellent job, i'm delighted with it 

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Gorgeous! Well done! I've had mixed results with sending them red OC knives... Sometimes I get brand new red OC scales and sometimes they put back the old worn ones even though I asked them to replace the scales.

[Syem]

Nice pics Syem!

Thanks VICMAN! Can't wait to see you post a soldier/soldier-like

[Rapidray]

Interesting for sure and your dads....cool. 

Well the knife is mine I may gift it to him at the year's end...

His birthday? That would be nice.

[Syem]

The problem with soldier knives (and all vintage swiss knives) is, that not much certified info is available. Also the common and known books contain some false informations. Why? Because of the lack of certified infos, everybody is looking for hints and sometimes, the hints lead to a wrong direction. For example the R should stand for Roethlisberger. You see a R on a vintage soldier blade, than you`re looking for a knife maker that name starts with an R. And because Roethlisberger is the most known, hubbil says its maybe Roethlisberger. Fact is, at that time, there were many other swiss knife makers with a name that starts with an R. For example ROTH, RIETHMULLER, ROLLI, RIZZI, RENZ, RAIS. The factory of Roethlisberger is very mall by the way, compared to the facilities of elsener or wenger. So I dont see any evidence that those knives with the R are made by Roethlisberger. By the way, I have never seen a 1908 soldier knife with just a R on the blade - but I`ve seen some of them with Victoria on the front side and a R on the other side.

What I heard (no evidence) is, that during the days of the SMV, the knife makers worked together as an unit to supply the army with the amount of knives they ordered. The price was fix, so they wanted to produce them as cheap as possible. They split the production to different companies. So one company produced the awl, another one the blade, some smaller campanies assembled the knives and so on. Because they worked as an unit, they put the SMV logo to the front. The letter on the back was there to track the knives back when there was any problem with it later. Maybe it was like this, that the bigger companies like elsener and wenger produced most of the parts of the knives and send them to the smaller companies for assembling. After that they went back for quality control, that means for a small knife maker, knives with a W back to wenger, knives with an E back to elsener. Then they sent the knives to the army.
So thats why I think E stands for elsener and W for wenger, but that does not mean, that the whole production was made by those companies. Maybe the smaller companies didn`t have the capacity to assemble the ordered numbers from the army, so wenger and elsener made some totally in-house productions and because those knives were not part of the SMV as a unity, they marked them only with E or only with a W.

Victorinox changed the name quite a few times. Over 100 different tang stamps are known.

Well that's certainly very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing!

I was wondering if maybe Victorinox has an historian which may know more about this aspect of the 1908 model production. It also occured to me that the SMV may still exist (101 years commemorative knife) and that there may exist some records about these production methods and mechanisms...

[VICMAN]

Day 288

Elsener Soldier '1961' model - red 1973

Freshly arrived... I bought it "blind" (just a closed blurry pic from the top in a lot with other SAKs) and got rather lucky; Except for the slightly reshaped 1973 (!!) blade, all the tools are in great condition.

Nice pics Syem!

[VICMAN]

Nice pics Syem!

Thanks VICMAN! Can't wait to see you post a soldier/soldier-like

Here you go!

Click on pictures for best pictures

[Syem]

Day 289

Forges L & C Vallorbe Soldier '1908' model - 1908

It obviously has the scales of an 1890 model but due to the clip-point blade I'm calling it a 1908. Due to the fact its sharing these features with both I'm going to assume it must have been one of the first 1908 models made by this knifemaker. There surely must be an interesting story behing this knife but as usual we are left to guess and wonder

[Syem]

Here you go!

Click on pictures for best pictures

Very cool Pioneer with the Charles Elsener signature! What's the story behind this one? It's the first time I've seen it!
That 2011 is nice too! Thanks for sharing!

[VICMAN]

Here you go!

Click on pictures for best pictures

Very cool Pioneer with the Charles Elsener signature! What's the story behind this one? It's the first time I've seen it!
That 2011 is nice too! Thanks for sharing!

When the book THE KNIFE AND IT'S HISTORY was written on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of Victorinox I ordered one and the knife came with the book.

[VICMAN]

Day 289

Forges L & C Vallorbe Soldier '1908' model - 1908

It obviously has the scales of an 1890 model but due to the clip-point blade I'm calling it a 1908. Due to the fact its sharing these features with both I'm going to assume it must have been one of the first 1908 models made by this knifemaker. There surely must be an interesting story behing this knife but as usual we are left to guess and wonder

Cool knife and nice pics Syem!

[Syem]

Day 290

Wenger Soldier '1961' model - 1967