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Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer? 798

No Life Club Posts: 3,184
Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« on: October 08, 2018, 02:27:37 AM »
I know I would. The SAK blade shape and geometry, in carbon steel. :dd:



Chop On, Rise Up, and Hail Southern!
No Life Club Posts: 1,081
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2018, 03:31:32 AM »
Yes! I would love that :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 1,118
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 04:30:21 AM »
Naaa!

I love the whole thing about SA's being a great wet weather knife. I like water. The Atlantic, the Potomac river, the Gulf Of Mexico, The Shenandoah River, the Rogue River, the Guadalupe river, the san Gabriel river, Lake Georgetown, Lake Travis, just to name a few of the bodies of water I have been in or go in. I love that I can cut bait then reach over the side of the boat to swish the SAK around in the water to clean it, and not worry about it till the next day. If then.

I've had carbon steel in my former life as a life nut. Been there, done that. I don't want to worry about maintenance at my age. I don't know how much longevity I have left, but what ever it is, I don't ant to use a lot of it keeping up with maintenance. My guns are stainless, my kitchen knives are stainless, and so are my SAK's. 

Don't get too serious, just enough will do.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,027
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 05:18:47 AM »
I dig carbon and wouldn't pass on one. 

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 3,051
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 05:49:51 AM »
This is a favorite conversation between my son and I. He loves carbon steel, doesn’t like stainless. He loves wood scales, and doesn’t like plastic or metal. I can live with any scale material.
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,027
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 04:02:47 PM »
Theres something to be said for SS however carbon still has its place in my world  :tu:.  I've seen SAKs with corrosion, theres a thread here on MTO with a video.  Those liners and brass pins can take a beating from what I've seen personally.  Now in all fairness I'm sure the owners were not caring for their knives.  WHICH brings me to say a SAK isn't maintenance free.  You will certainly have less care than a carbon knife of similar style.  I do pause tho, as I've seen some of the knives posted here that are in wonderful condition.  I am not sure your fathers or grandfathers fussed incessantly in the care of them  :dunno:

 Would I use a carbon knife for a fishing knife?  No.  I have 2 carbon folders.  Both in wonderful condition with little care.  One came to me used from an unknown owner at the fleamarket.  It was dirty but in serviceable condition.  I wont argue that carbon does more require care vs a SAK  :salute:.  I just wont go as far to say in my life carbon is not a viable option.  Lets not forget there are some wonderful examples of carbon historical knives that have been unearthed.

 

Esse Quam Videri
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,488 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 04:04:52 PM »
Bung in a hollow rivet and it's a massive YES!  :cheers:

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf

'Derail a thread and we'll come at you like a block of cheese'. Captain Mags and Sergeant Fuzzbucket of the Anti Derai.... mmmmmmm cheese
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,253 I'm blue!
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 05:21:12 PM »
I have a few damascus blades, some stainless and some carbon steel. But for SAKs I want stainless. A friend of mine who carries a Sentinel every single day would like one in 1095 though.
Full Member Posts: 114
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 05:32:07 PM »
I love traditional carbon steel pocket knives, but prefer SAKs exactly as they are.
However, a carbon pioneer/farmer with steel bolsters and ebony covers would grab my attention  :climber:
Hero Member Posts: 650
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 05:49:35 PM »
Might buy one as a collector piece, but for real use I'll stick with SS.

- Steve
No Life Club Posts: 3,051
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2018, 06:03:45 PM »
I love traditional carbon steel pocket knives, but prefer SAKs exactly as they are.
However, a carbon pioneer/farmer with steel bolsters and ebony covers would grab my attention  :climber:
Ebony...as in real ebony wood...yeah, that would get my attention real quick... :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 2,059
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 11:06:47 PM »
Vic steel in my mind, performs like a carbon steel, but with really good corrosion resistance--in other words great edge retention, but easy to resharpen. For me, carbon=EDC, stainless=camp, fish, cook, work. But, sure, I'd be open to a carbon steel model. Maybe a throwback to the old 100mm Soldiers.

I'd love for them to use SK-5 or 1085. The old Boker USA knives used that and they are some tough old knives and hold an edge very well. Boker's Plus-line replicas of their USA-era war blades like the 155 have used SK-5 as an alternative to the 1085, and from what I'm hearing, it's just as good if not a little better.
No Life Club Posts: 1,397 Douglas's papa
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 11:48:00 PM »
SS, yes. plastic, yes. Carbon steel, yes............is it a gun or a knife???????? I'll take it.......... :D :dunno: :drink:

Shoot low sheriff, they're riddin' shetlands
SAKMC unit number BR549
137% Redneck
Taylor Swift  is stalking me..... (@.@)
Just a small personal observation.  ...........I would not be at all surprised that when God created the Earth & the heavens, that the SwissChamp was the tool he used. .............. :hatsoff:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,926

Nix us

******* * *
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 12:20:57 AM »
 :iagree:


But a Carbon Steel SAK? YES!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,930 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 12:50:41 AM »
I have two carbon steel pocket knives that I carry. Both are Sheffield made, one was a gift and is the knife I've owned the longest, and the other is a lovely looking knife that I picked up at a shop in town. I really like these two, and both get carry time.

I'll never buy another!

I've gotten rid of a few other carbon steel folders, and have a couple of carbon Opinels around somewhere which I never use. They impart a taste on food, can rust just by being caught in a rain shower with the knife in your pocket, and are generally more hassle than they're worth. Stainless holds an edge just fine, most of the ones I buy are easy to sharpen, they don't impart tastes on food, and are a lot less hassle. I carry a pocket knife to make life easier, so why should I carry one that makes life less easy than another one? I have carbon steel fixed blades too, but hardly use them either. Too much hassle.

I don't see any benefit to carbon steel, or any advantage or appeal over stainless. The two I carry have meaning to me beyond just being a pocket knife, purely because of the city I happened to have been born in, and one was a gift. They are great knives, and both earn their keep without relying on the other emotive aspects, but they are no better for being carbon, and are just more demanding in respect of maintenance.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,926

Nix us

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Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 01:00:39 AM »
Carbon steel knives take a keener edge. And they tend to hold an edge well. Vic's SS is....soft, and not really suitable for long-term use. Now, I might take a SAK with a ZDP-189 or S35V blade over a Carbon Steel version, but that's another question........
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,930 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 01:23:59 AM »
I don't tend to have to sharpen my stainless knives any more often than my carbons. If a knife edge seems particularly short lived, I'll put a slightly less acute angle on it, or convex it. Fixed or folding. I know some people feel some functional improvement, but I don't.  :dunno: as to finer edges, the only thing I need a real fine edge on is my open razor, which is carbon steel, but I use that for occasional "novelty" use. I wouldn't want to use that everyday either.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,926

Nix us

******* * *
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 01:29:44 AM »
I use my O-1 razor approximately every 7-9 days.

Which reminds me........
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,250
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 01:39:24 AM »
If you've seen my posts in any of the traditionals threads, you know I love carbon blades. 

But keep my SAKs SS please, unless they're really old.


- Terry

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me...
No Life Club Posts: 3,051
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 03:31:04 AM »
If you've seen my posts in any of the traditionals threads, you know I love carbon blades. 

But keep my SAKs SS please, unless they're really old.


Not bad at all  :like:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,871 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2018, 01:14:41 PM »
Carbon steel knives take a keener edge. And they tend to hold an edge well. Vic's SS is....soft, and not really suitable for long-term use. Now, I might take a SAK with a ZDP-189 or S35V blade over a Carbon Steel version, but that's another question........

http://www.knifecommand.c...9-swiss-army-style-green/
http://www.knifecommand.c...wiss-army-style-rosewood/

Long time famous Japanese company  :salute:

My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,027
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2018, 03:16:16 PM »
Interesting SAK TheP, anyone try one you know?   


Esse Quam Videri
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,250
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2018, 04:26:40 PM »
That Sakai looks well made.

- Terry

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me...
Hero Member Posts: 848
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 01:26:26 AM »
Nope. The Vic stainless to my untrained eye, is pretty much the same as 1095 with the advantage of being a stainless steel. Takes a wicked edge, a quite easy to touch up. An alox Vic, such as an electrician, is just about bulletproof.

I do have a few carbon steel traditional folders I carry on occasions, but I prefer stainless about all of the time.

But I do get why folks enjoy their carbon blades. Always room for all at the knife/mto table.

🇨🇭
No Life Club Posts: 1,081
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 02:25:03 AM »
I quite like SAK stainless steel. I usually keep a very fine edge (8 - 10 degrees per side with a slight microbevel) on them and they work great for a good long time on most of the tasks I encounter. I would welcome a point or two of higher hardness but there is something to be said for them being nearly impossible to chip or snap. The thing is that with higher fraction/bigger carbide carbon steel even when the blade would be dull by SAK steel standards, you can still slice effectively because the edge still has some bite. This is most pronounced when cutting abrasive materials like cardboard in my experience.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,250
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2018, 10:23:46 AM »
Nope. The Vic stainless to my untrained eye, is pretty much the same as 1095 with the advantage of being a stainless steel. Takes a wicked edge, a quite easy to touch up.

My experience is that Vic steel doesn't hold an edge quite as long as 1095 but the easy touch-up makes up for the difference and does indeed take a keen edge.

- Terry

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me...
No Life Club Posts: 3,051
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2018, 02:03:52 PM »
Nope. The Vic stainless to my untrained eye, is pretty much the same as 1095 with the advantage of being a stainless steel. Takes a wicked edge, a quite easy to touch up.

My experience is that Vic steel doesn't hold an edge quite as long as 1095 but the easy touch-up makes up for the difference and does indeed take a keen edge.
:iagree: 110%
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,871 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2018, 03:08:34 PM »
Interesting SAK TheP, anyone try one you know?   

review in German and English (below)
 :tu:

https://chriscustomworks....i-fieldman-trekking-tool/

I haven't had a Sakai SAK-style knife  :dunno: but I have several other G.Sakai made folders and one fixed blade, 8)
and they are well known and widely discussed in the Spyderco forums where I also am a member.

They have made knives for Spyderco for decades and they're a famous, reputable manufacturer  :salute:

My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,027
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2018, 05:41:14 PM »
I see a few post here on MTO about that knife.  No-one seems to have gotten one. 

Back to topic.  A Carbon steel Pioneer would be cool.  From what I have read a knifes steel can be defined as Carbon when the content is within certain percentages.    Low within 0.05 to 0.3 percent, medium ranges between 0.3 and 0.6 percent, and high from 0.6 to 1.5 percent.  Cromium would have to be lower if we are talking non stainless steels.  There are a lot of good Carbon steels that fall into the description. 

5160, D2, A2, 52100, CPM M4 just to name a few.  I might very well be wrong but Carbon doesn't have to mean rusting is guaranteed or high level of care must be taken.  Steels have come a long way since 1095 or whatever from days past. 

SAK steel is great.  Theres better and some just like options while other do require more edge retention.   
     

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 3,184
Re: Who would buy a carbon steel Pioneer?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2018, 07:26:48 PM »
I would not throw away all of my stainless SAKs for sure. I think that may be how I came across in the OP. Vic has a good steel, I would just love to see a 1095 or a 5160.

Chop On, Rise Up, and Hail Southern!

 

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