Alox vs. Cellidor Strength

[this_is_nascar]

Any opinions on which is tougher for hard use?  For example, would a Pioneer or Spartan be more durable for hard and long cutting or would they be equally strong?


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[Steinar]

The 93 mm knives have thicker pins, thicker blades, and the Cellidor is there for looks and ergonomics (as opposed to structural strength). That said, for most uses the 91 mm knives are fine. If we are talking controlled cuts in soft materials, the 91 mm would even be slightly better, as the steel is the same, but the slightly thinner blade would slice a little better. Talking about marginal differences, they also have slightly different blade profiles.

For hard, prolonged use I'd personally prefer a comfortable fixed blade over any folder, though.

[gustophersmob]

Any opinions on which is tougher for hard use?  For example, would a Pioneer or Spartan be more durable for hard and long cutting or would they be equally strong?


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I believe the alox would be tougher. The tools are thicker, the liners and pins are nickel silver instead of aluminum and brass, and I believe the back springs are thicker because there isn't as much material removed to accommodate back side tools. They will also be more chemical resistant than the plastic scales.

But, the question is does all that matter with how you use it? I've seen and read of many cases where people push the cellidor models beyond what I thought they would handle without ill effect. I think if you are using a cellidor knife to the point of breaking, you'd probably be better with a fixed blade than alox.

Still, I don't think it can be argued that alox models (at leat the 93mm ones) are going to be ultimately more robust. That's what they were designed for.

[gustophersmob]

The 93 mm knives have thicker pins, thicker blades, and the Cellidor is there for looks and ergonomics (as opposed to structural strength). That said, for most uses the 91 mm knives are fine. If we are talking controlled cuts in soft materials, the 91 mm would even be slightly better, as the steel is the same, but the slightly thinner blade would slice a little better. Talking about marginal differences, they also have slightly different blade profiles.

For hard, prolonged use I'd personally prefer a comfortable fixed blade over any folder, though.

You beat me to it. I agree with this.

I personally prefer alox over cellidor as I pretty much detest plastic in my edc items, and like the much more solid feel of them (no scale flex, unlike the cellidor models).  I also find them more comfortable to use by a long shot, and I think it's mostly due to the lack of back tools and the back springs being flush with the liners.

[Steinar]

Yeah, it's something really nice about avoiding plastic. Plastics are incredible materials, and sometimes objectively the best option, but it's rarely... nice. (Insert sigh over microplastics in nature here.)

Anyway, 2 out of 2 MT.o posters agree pretty much any structural detail on a 93 mm is tougher than on a 91 mm, be it handles, pins, blades, or backsprings. 

[cbl51]

The 93 mm knives have thicker pins, thicker blades, and the Cellidor is there for looks and ergonomics (as opposed to structural strength). That said, for most uses the 91 mm knives are fine. If we are talking controlled cuts in soft materials, the 91 mm would even be slightly better, as the steel is the same, but the slightly thinner blade would slice a little better. Talking about marginal differences, they also have slightly different blade profiles.

For hard, prolonged use I'd personally prefer a comfortable fixed blade over any folder, though.

This plus a zillion!

I love alox, and if I'm ;eaves tyhehouse on a trip and I'm not sure what I will run into, there's alox in my pocket and a fixed blade in my bag. My old Wenger SI has been my go-to knife for a few decades now, and before that it was an old beat up red pioneer. Before that it was my army issue demo knife that got in the habit.

I consider the plastic a urban/suburban etc knife for those "normal" day to day little jobs that come up. Opening my mail, opening a plastic package, opening a bag of mulch for the garden, trimming some fishing line after tying a new hook on the line. I've had a few plastic scale crack, had one break off a large chunk when dropped on a floor, had one ,let when casein contact with some gun cleaning solvent.

For a keychain size pocket knife plastic is okay, but for the real world at large, give me alox. If I'm going to the woods I'll have a sheath knife on my belt.

[LoopCutter]

Alox ages better with use.  Develops character.

Cellidor as it ages becomes dull and scratched, yet new scales are often easy to locate and be changed, even with a change of color if desired.

If one is going to have ONLY one pocket knife for a lifetime, an ALOX model would a good choice you would not regret.  But good luck with that and continue visiting this forum

[gustophersmob]

Alox ages better with use.  Develops character.

Cellidor as it ages becomes dull and scratched, yet new scales are often easy to locate and be changed, even with a change of color if desired.

If one is going to have ONLY one pocket knife for a lifetime, an ALOX model would a good choice you would not regret.  But good luck with that and continue visiting this forum

I agree! 

[Rapidray]

  if only one SAK - Alox.
I’m just glad we are not stuck to only one SAK. Some have a special usages while others cover a bigger area. Outdoor vs indoor.

[MacGyver]

Alox ages better with use.  Develops character.

Cellidor as it ages becomes dull and scratched...

Well... that's very subjective as always... 

I'm a bit the opposite... i really dislike the colored alox wear... the silver dings on the scales and the rubbed/flaked/faded/worn off paint... I just don't find it appealing at all, sorry... 
The only "worn" alox i kind of like is the silver one.

I like the worn in (not abused) cellidor look and feel, i like it when it starts to develop that "satin" feel and look, micro scratches/rash from normal pocket wear... I like that feel a lot more than the shiny, glossy, brand new out of the box cellidor feel 

[Sawl Goodman]

Alox ages better with use.  Develops character.

Cellidor as it ages becomes dull and scratched, yet new scales are often easy to locate and be changed, even with a change of color if desired.

Both materials develop character IMO. I prefer to buy used SAKs because of it. I, too, like the dull patina of well used cellidor. The shiny finish, beautiful and attractive as it is in shop displays, is too hard - if not impossible - to maintain. I feel the old solid cellidor scales age better than the newer hollow ones - and they feel nicer, too.

I wish I'd got into SAKs before the OC was discontinued. I'd love to have a red alox Pioneer or Farmer from then showing a lifetime of my personal carry and use.

If one is going to have ONLY one pocket knife for a lifetime, an ALOX model would a good choice you would not regret.  But good luck with that and continue visiting this forum

Or stop visiting all forums if you wish to remain monogamous with your knife!

[Huntsman]

Still, I don't think it can be argued that alox models (at leat the 93mm ones) are going to be ultimately more robust.
That's what they were designed for.

Yep the original name for the Pioneer Alox series back in the 50s was the Sturdy Boy series

[theonew]

If I worked in a more physically demanding occupation than IT I would probably carry something in Alox but for me cellidor and the scale tools are the best match.

[this_is_nascar]

Thanks for the replies, but it's turned into a "how it looks" conversation, instead of what it was intended to be.

Bottom line, forgetting the fact that one may look better, feel better in the hand, not be the right tool for the job, etc, all I wanted to know is if one was structurally stronger than the other.


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[hiraethus]

Alox is stronger.

[Don Pablo]

Alox is stronger.

Alox for the tough tools (knife, bottle opener, etc), celidor for the ‘other’ tools (like the cyber tool, saw, etc)

Pack it up everyone, the problem is solved. We’re going home! 

[gustophersmob]

nm

[MacGyver]

Thanks for the replies, but it's turned into a "how it looks" conversation, instead of what it was intended to be.

Bottom line, forgetting the fact that one may look better, feel better in the hand, not be the right tool for the job, etc, all I wanted to know is if one was structurally stronger than the other.


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While my preference always goes to cellidor for regular edc, and also for what is in my mind the "Swiss Army Knife"/ "Swiss pocket knife"  look/function/feel should be, Alox it's obviously both structurally and metallurgicaly (types of metal used for manufacture) tougher and stronger, no shred of doubt about it. It can take more abuse  in tougher conditions, it can resist to harsher substancies better too, that's what it was designed for in the first place. 

[Huntsman]

Thanks for the replies, but it's turned into a "how it looks" conversation, instead of what it was intended to be.
Bottom line, forgetting the fact that one may look better, feel better in the hand, not be the right tool for the job, etc, all I wanted to know is if one was structurally stronger than the other.

Did you not read the replies to your OP?
It is pretty clear if you do which is stronger - They also explain why!!
...... They also don't crack if you drop them

EDIT PS: You could also check SAKWiki for some guidance -
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+93mm
Although if you had checked yesterday it might not have been so clear            

[AimlessWanderer]

I'l another that doesn't need any additional strength above what a 91mm offers. Aside from breaking scales through dropping a knife, I've never broken a 91mm or used it beyond its limits. I do tend to reach to fixed blades for heavier use conditions though.

[Gath]

Thanks for the replies, but it's turned into a "how it looks" conversation, instead of what it was intended to be.

Bottom line, forgetting the fact that one may look better, feel better in the hand, not be the right tool for the job, etc, all I wanted to know is if one was structurally stronger than the other.


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By the volume of your posts you ought to know that the instant a question is answered satisfactorily:

The 93 mm knives have thicker pins, thicker blades, and the Cellidor is there for looks and ergonomics (as opposed to structural strength). That said, for most uses the 91 mm knives are fine. If we are talking controlled cuts in soft materials, the 91 mm would even be slightly better, as the steel is the same, but the slightly thinner blade would slice a little better. Talking about marginal differences, they also have slightly different blade profiles.

For hard, prolonged use I'd personally prefer a comfortable fixed blade over any folder, though.

We will initiate thread derailment immediately, unless we strongly disagree. After all we got the toughness question down, may as well compare other features.

[cbl51]

I don't have any problem with the strength and structure of the 91mm's, but I do have a problem with how thin Victorinox has made the newer plastic scales to save a bit of money. My tinker fell out of my pocket pulling on my pants one morning and hit the bathroom floor from about a bit les than waist hight.

About the top third of the scale on one side sheered off and went scattering across the floor. When I retrieved the broken off part, I was really shocked at how paper thin the red plastic was on that tinker. It broke in a clean line across where the more hollow part was and a reenforcing rib that was molded into the scale. I think Victorinox has screwed up in the name of saving a cent or two per knife in giving us really thin hollowed out handle scales. Now expect for keychain size SAK's, I go alox all the way. I have abandoned all use of plastic scale 91mm SAK's. Maybe it Victorinox brings back he solid plastic scales I'll reconsider the 91's. My 84mm use is filed with my cadet.

[this_is_nascar]

Thanks again everyone.  Appreciate the responses and feedback.


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[GeoTsai]

Something to also consider is the fact that Alox scales don't deform under high temperatures. All it takes is for one to put their entire collection of SAKs into a dishwasher to learn this lesson (ask me how I know) 

[Don Pablo]

Something to also consider is the fact that Alox scales don't deform under high temperatures. All it takes is for one to put their entire collection of SAKs into a dishwasher to learn this lesson (ask me how I know) 

My condolences.
I hope that it wasn’t many SAKs. 

[Gee.B]

Alox ages better with use.  Develops character.
(...)
If one is going to have ONLY one pocket knife for a lifetime, an ALOX model would a good choice you would not regret.

I think you nailed it here. i'm no collector, or at least I never meant to be a collector 🙃. I always come back to my Alox despite a few less tools than a Cellidor model like a Hiker. It juste feels stronger and timeless.
but then i'm a one-thing man. Some have dozen pairs of shoes . i just swear by the timeless Clarks Desert boots. it's the same for knife. One model. so it has to age well, look well and be sturdy

[Swisster]

Stay Glow scales are nylon and don’t chip or crack like cellidor does. Where is the Blue Stay Glow scales Victorinox ?  Why don’t the nylon scales on SAK’s have steel shields ?  Paint shield’s look cheap and where off.