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Firearms...the original multi tool?

us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #60 on: November 04, 2018, 11:55:14 PM
I'd be disappointed if Canada banned handguns.

I've never carried a handgun into Canada, but I sometimes entertain dreams of flying to remote bear-infested territory to fish and camp. I know bear-spray is the preferred defense, but I have more faith in a well-placed .44 round.

There was an incident nearby, a few miles to the South-East of me, where a grizzly attacked a bow hunter. He carried bear-spray, but, in pulling it out, the can got turned around and he shot himself in the face.

At least he didn't see what was coming.

He did survive his mauling, and now is planning on making some adjustments to his pepper spray carry.

It's a toss up for me which will be more effective. I went out hiking yesterday and carried only bear spray. When I go out hiking, hunting, or fishing with my buddy, he carries bear-spray, I carry a .44. I'm seriously hoping we 1) never run into a cranky griz, 2) he deters it with a blast of pepper spray, and 3) I ignore my soiled pants long enough to shoot the bear cleanly.

The few encounters I've had with bears, I haven't had enough time to use either bear spray or a handgun. I think they were more freaked out by me than I was by them. (And, yes, I do shower regularly.) So, maybe it's mostly a moot point. But I'd feel better if I at least had the choice to carry a handgun when out chasing wild trout or salmon.


us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #61 on: November 05, 2018, 08:42:33 AM
 :SAKnight:
Apache_revolver by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

More information about the Apache pistol is available via Wikipedia.
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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #62 on: November 05, 2018, 12:25:59 PM
That is a good thing Nix. Your handgun would never cross the boarder with you. Up here, you can only use them at a qualified range. You cannot bring a handgun into the wilderness unless you meet stringent requirements such as being a professional trapper. Reason why very short shotguns carrying slugs are very popular among the outdoor crowds. Oddly enough, our shotgun laws are laxer then those of the US. In Canada, you are allowed to carry a 9 inch shotgun for wildlife protection.  :salute:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.htm
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Leatherman series articles


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #63 on: November 05, 2018, 12:46:20 PM
Another amusing difference between the US and Canada is being able to ship a knife.  In the US you are required to ship a firearm through a bonded courier to a firearms dealer in the recipient's area, at which point they have to go to the dealer and show appropriate identification, licensing etc.  In Canada I can mail someone a pistol directly... through Canada Post.

Maybe for not much longer, but it is currently legal.

Def
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es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #64 on: November 05, 2018, 02:11:45 PM


There was an incident nearby, a few miles to the South-East of me, where a grizzly attacked a bow hunter. He carried bear-spray, but, in pulling it out, the can got turned around and he shot himself in the face.

At least he didn't see what was coming.


well, bear ( :D) in mind that if that bow hunter had carried and grabbed a handgun, and the gun got turned around, he'd have shot himself in the face and he'd be dead now, but he is alive today, so maybe he in partifular was better carrying a spray can than a gun  :dunno:



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us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #65 on: November 05, 2018, 03:10:26 PM
That is a good thing Nix. Your handgun would never cross the boarder with you. Up here, you can only use them at a qualified range. You cannot bring a handgun into the wilderness unless you meet stringent requirements such as being a professional trapper. Reason why very short shotguns carrying slugs are very popular among the outdoor crowds. Oddly enough, our shotgun laws are laxer then those of the US. In Canada, you are allowed to carry a 9 inch shotgun for wildlife protection.  :salute:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.htm


I thought it was more permissive. (Maybe it was?) I once looked into for a motorcycle trip. Back then....you could file paperwork with customs in advance and get a temporary permit. And the barrel had to be....4" or more....or something like like.

Bummer.

Digging through the website, it looks like a visitor could not even borrow a shotgun for purposes of self-defense in the wilderness while fishing.

Looks like visitors need to depend on the forbearance of the bears. 


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #66 on: November 05, 2018, 04:12:59 PM
Well, we’re talking about Canadian bears... they’ll say “eh, sorry” as they’re eating you, at least. :tu:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #67 on: November 05, 2018, 04:45:10 PM
Haven't heard as many stories about Canadian bears, but it seem the bears up in Alaska (and maybe Montana) are becoming more habituated to humans. And the bear population is increasing....which leads to more competition for resources and more contact with humans.

I've heard a few harrowing stories of bears in Alaska of bears attacking fishermen or hunters, right as they get out of a float plane. Apparently some bears have learned that visitors carry coolers of food. And have started attacking in pairs of small groups.

These stories may be exaggerated, but they do speak to an increasing need to learn to live with these big predators. We've had at least 4 bear attacks this year in Montana. I think 3 people have been killed by grizzlies this year, two in Alaska and one in Wyoming.  It's a tragedy when a bear attack leads to a bear (especially a mother sow) being put down. Usually the bears are just doing what bears do. However, two of these incidents appear to involve unusual or predatory behavior. Which leads to speculation.......


si Offline lister

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #68 on: November 05, 2018, 05:49:14 PM
Bear spray is better than a handgun at least in the sense that if you accidentally spray yourself with one the bear gets a nice spicy meal. If you shoot yourself with a gun the best you can hope for is heavy metal poisoning of the bear. I mean if you have to go at least you could do something nice for our animal friends right?  :D
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #69 on: November 05, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
 :facepalm:


be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #70 on: November 05, 2018, 07:07:29 PM
Haven't heard as many stories about Canadian bears, but it seem the bears up in Alaska (and maybe Montana) are becoming more habituated to humans. And the bear population is increasing....which leads to more competition for resources and more contact with humans.

I've heard a few harrowing stories of bears in Alaska of bears attacking fishermen or hunters, right as they get out of a float plane. Apparently some bears have learned that visitors carry coolers of food. And have started attacking in pairs of small groups.

These stories may be exaggerated, but they do speak to an increasing need to learn to live with these big predators. We've had at least 4 bear attacks this year in Montana. I think 3 people have been killed by grizzlies this year, two in Alaska and one in Wyoming.  It's a tragedy when a bear attack leads to a bear (especially a mother sow) being put down. Usually the bears are just doing what bears do. However, two of these incidents appear to involve unusual or predatory behavior. Which leads to speculation.......

Maybe it's humans who are becoming more habituated to bears, assuming they'll be alright as long as they have their bear-spray and/or handgun with them ...  :pok:


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #71 on: November 05, 2018, 10:10:14 PM
Hugh Glass didn't need no bear pepper spray.....   :whistle:
Esse Quam Videri


nz Offline Syncop8r

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #72 on: November 05, 2018, 10:53:21 PM
I've never carried a handgun into Canada, but I sometimes entertain dreams of flying to remote bear-infested territory to fish and camp. I know bear-spray is the preferred defense, but I have more faith in a well-placed .44 round.
So.... you want a right to bear arms?  ::)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 11:37:15 PM by Syncop8r »


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #73 on: November 05, 2018, 11:12:07 PM
I have lived, hiked, fished and hunted in bear country most of my life and I have never had any problems with them.  That's why Canadians don't need to carry guns for protection.  We are tough enough to not need them!   >:D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #74 on: November 05, 2018, 11:30:07 PM
I have lived, hiked, fished and hunted in bear country most of my life and I have never had any problems with them.  That's why Canadians don't need to carry guns for protection.  We are tough enough to not need them!   >:D

Def


I've never had an issue either. I've had several encounters, but no issues. I once found myself between a large sow black and her two cubs. At that point in time I found out what a 'dry mouth' felt like. Nice little cardiac stress test, too.

I once had a grizzly run right past me. I was looking down hill into an opening on the side of a mountain. As I scanned the area, I found myself thinking "that looks like the kind of place a grizzly would pop out of".  Sure enough, a grizzly runs right down the hill behind me and runs into the place I was looking. That was a bit nerve rattling, too. I don't know if he just ignored me or didn't see me as he was busy running downhill. But I had no chance to react until it was too late; he was next to me and then downhill in a flash.

At that point, I had to look uphill and wonder what would make a big grizzly run away..........


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #75 on: November 05, 2018, 11:45:29 PM

At that point, I had to look uphill and wonder what would make a big grizzly run away..........

Grant in a dress...


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us Offline Nix

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #76 on: November 06, 2018, 01:19:48 AM
I was thinking 'Sasquatch', but you're probably right.   :rofl:


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #77 on: November 06, 2018, 07:02:34 AM
 :rofl:

Some call Grant in a dress a "Big Foot".
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #78 on: November 06, 2018, 12:52:13 PM
 :facepalm:

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #79 on: November 06, 2018, 06:28:51 PM
The FP-45 Liberator: The FP-45 was a crude, single-shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass-produced. It had just 23 largely stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. It fired the .45 ACP pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to this limitation, it was intended for short range use, 1–4 yards (1–4 m). Its maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (8 m). At longer range, the bullet would begin to tumble and stray off course. The original delivered cost for the FP-45 was $2.10/unit, lending it the nickname "Woolworth pistol". Five extra rounds of ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip.  .... "The pistol was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance.

FP-45 Liberator
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #80 on: November 07, 2018, 11:28:52 AM
That's why Canadians don't need to carry guns for protection.  We are tough enough to not need them!   >:D

Def

Brits too...



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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #81 on: November 07, 2018, 12:35:45 PM
My but you Brits are aggressive.  You should try just being polite and asking them to cooperate!



Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #82 on: November 07, 2018, 12:48:06 PM
 :like:

I'm a firm believer in the Right To Keep and Arm Bears. :D
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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #83 on: November 07, 2018, 02:17:38 PM
The FP-45 Liberator: The FP-45 was a crude, single-shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass-produced. It had just 23 largely stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. It fired the .45 ACP pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to this limitation, it was intended for short range use, 1–4 yards (1–4 m). Its maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (8 m). At longer range, the bullet would begin to tumble and stray off course. The original delivered cost for the FP-45 was $2.10/unit, lending it the nickname "Woolworth pistol". Five extra rounds of ammunition could be stored in the pistol grip.  .... "The pistol was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance.

FP-45 Liberator


If I remember correctly they were meant as a cheap weapon for partisans/resistance fighters to kill an enemy soldier up close so as to acquire a proper firearm.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #84 on: November 07, 2018, 02:44:35 PM
That is the story I heard too, although I don't know how accurate it is.  I am certain they were used for that, whether it was an intended purpose or not.  :D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #85 on: November 07, 2018, 03:15:17 PM
If I remember correctly they were meant as a cheap weapon for partisans/resistance fighters to kill an enemy soldier up close so as to acquire a proper firearm.

Correct.
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us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #86 on: November 08, 2018, 11:30:28 PM
This is a 'food for thought' post. I am not trying to 'stir the turd' or instigate an argument.
If you don't agree with the post please ignore or reply with information regarding your view of this subject.

I have included an excerpt from No Matter What You Hear, Guns Aren’t Designed to Kill People. "Let’s face it – all guns can be used to kill people. But so can hammers, screw drivers and cars. That doesn’t mean that they were designed for that purpose. There are more than 300 million firearms in the United States. There are about 9,000 murders and 500 accidents committed with those firearms in a given year. Roughly one gun out of 42,000 is used to kill someone. Add in suicides and the ratio becomes 1 in 12,500. If guns were actually designed to kill people, their designers are doing a lousy job.

The next time you read or hear that “guns are designed to kill people”, you’ll know that the writer or speaker hasn’t really thought about what they are writing or saying. They’re spouting a propaganda talking point designed to have you forget about the common uses of firearms, and concentrate on the rare and uncommon."

Weapons Are Just Tools. It's People Who Are Dangerous

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Is it better to carry a 'paddle' or to be "up a creek" without one?


wales Offline hiraethus

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #87 on: November 09, 2018, 06:52:27 AM
Equally, if you don't want to start an argument but are aware that something you post is contentious, why post it at all? :shrug:


us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #88 on: November 09, 2018, 07:44:13 AM
Equally, if you don't want to start an argument but are aware that something you post is contentious, why post it at all? :shrug:

Fair point.  :pok: But then, we wouldn't have much to say on this forum because we all know that SAK's are the best MT there is and the only advantage to 'those other MTs' is a bigger pair of pliers!  :twak:  :whistle:
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Is it better to carry a 'paddle' or to be "up a creek" without one?


us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: Firearms...the original multi tool?
Reply #89 on: November 09, 2018, 01:43:37 PM
Stinger Pen Knife pistol .22 LR Multi-tool (14)

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Is it better to carry a 'paddle' or to be "up a creek" without one?


 

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