Quote from: Don Pablo on February 03, 2019, 08:47:07 PMQuote from: twiliter on February 02, 2019, 03:13:53 PMI drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble. All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way. I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world. Just curious, what was the rough route of that 1000 mile trip? I bet I could find charging stations along it.It was actually a 7000 mile trip from Atlanta to the San Francisco Bay Area and back. I suppose I could have found places to charge or plug in too, but the point is that it's a 9+ hour ordeal to recharge, while I can gas up and be rolling in 5 minutes.
Quote from: twiliter on February 02, 2019, 03:13:53 PMI drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble. All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way. I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world. Just curious, what was the rough route of that 1000 mile trip? I bet I could find charging stations along it.
I drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble. All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way. I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world.
You can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.
Quote from: pomsbz on February 04, 2019, 06:16:09 AMYou can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me.
Quote from: twiliter on February 04, 2019, 05:30:40 AMQuote from: Don Pablo on February 03, 2019, 08:47:07 PMQuote from: twiliter on February 02, 2019, 03:13:53 PMI drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble. All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way. I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world. Just curious, what was the rough route of that 1000 mile trip? I bet I could find charging stations along it.It was actually a 7000 mile trip from Atlanta to the San Francisco Bay Area and back. I suppose I could have found places to charge or plug in too, but the point is that it's a 9+ hour ordeal to recharge, while I can gas up and be rolling in 5 minutes. In the interests of accuracy:If you had a fancy Tesla Model S, with a 70kWh battery, driving from Atlanta to San Francisco would require 43 hours of driving, with an extra 13 hours of charging time on top. Total trip time (not including sleeping, breaks, some of which you could do during the charges) would then be 56 hours.I don't know anything about driving from Atlanta to San Francisco, does the 43 hours of driving sound correct?https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=b0qy91s9
Quote from: twiliter on February 04, 2019, 03:48:46 PMQuote from: pomsbz on February 04, 2019, 06:16:09 AMYou can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me. I think that the times you are using are specifically assuming that you will not be making stop offs for food and bathroom breaks over that time in the gas powered car. If you organise the breaks with the charging the difference is going to be considerably less.Oh and can I express jealousy for how cheap your gas is? 500 miles for $22. Price is 3-4X that here.
Does anyone remember the original Honda Civic with the first CVCC engines?Those things were able to get the same mileage somehow that the Hybrids seem to get now?You could buy the HF version here for the most economy and least performance as an option even.Then Poof they vanished for some reason and the Hybrid is what we were left with?I still have no clue what happened to them and why we had to accept the Hybrid as the replacement but the Tech was clearly there for that kind of mileage back then so......?I did have a Fit a few years ago and did really like it but it was just too Tiny for me in the end too.My friends Kids though LOVE it as their first car and it does keep plugging along despite a team of Teens trying to kill it!
Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon. One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: MMR on February 04, 2019, 08:57:27 PMPersonally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon. One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?
They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S.
Quote from: ezdog on February 04, 2019, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: MMR on February 04, 2019, 08:57:27 PMPersonally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon. One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn't own mine for long,it was just too small for me really and I also drive trucks.Toyota sells Hybrid SUVs though and so does/did GM,even the big ones!I work for and with car dealers though a lot and it is pretty widely accepted that the Toyota Prius is maybe the most reliable platform that they sell,thats all I was trying to say.They have not just evolved that way either but from the very start the Prius have been oddly reliable it seems so the idea that the complexity of the Hybrid system is an issue does not seem to be the case.Sure it would be pricey to replace a main battery pack but even these have proved to last a lot longer than expected it seems.Quote from: MMR on February 05, 2019, 08:48:31 AMQuote from: ezdog on February 04, 2019, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: MMR on February 04, 2019, 08:57:27 PMPersonally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon. One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: ezdog on February 05, 2019, 01:21:59 PMI didn't own mine for long,it was just too small for me really and I also drive trucks.Toyota sells Hybrid SUVs though and so does/did GM,even the big ones!I work for and with car dealers though a lot and it is pretty widely accepted that the Toyota Prius is maybe the most reliable platform that they sell,thats all I was trying to say.They have not just evolved that way either but from the very start the Prius have been oddly reliable it seems so the idea that the complexity of the Hybrid system is an issue does not seem to be the case.Sure it would be pricey to replace a main battery pack but even these have proved to last a lot longer than expected it seems.Quote from: MMR on February 05, 2019, 08:48:31 AMQuote from: ezdog on February 04, 2019, 10:09:15 PMQuote from: MMR on February 04, 2019, 08:57:27 PMPersonally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon. One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt’s actually a lot easier than one would expect to replace the battery pack on a Prius
I suppose I should say why I'm so biased towards electric cars. I live on an island the size of South Carolina. And I'm lead to understand that's small by American standards.From the capital city to the farthest point of land is about 350km. Most of the electric cars on the market can manage that without a recharge. And why would I drive to the literal lands end without spending a few hours there that I could use to recharge my hypothetical electric car? And if I take my electric car to the mainland on a ferry, I'm about three recharges away from about 5 different countries.Plus, with petrol being expensive, and diesel looking to be banned in the city in the near future.....So, that's my bias.
Blah blah blah about gas millage and range per charge...(Image removed from quote.)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can always just buy a smaller turbodiesel car, if you are no longer needing the solid axles.