RANT: The 'F' word....

[GrandpaPatch]

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THIS IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THE IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THIS IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THIS IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

IF YOU ARE READING THIS YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT YOU WERE NOT WARNED

The 'F' word...Firearms
Blame by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr
This also applies to mugging, kicking the living SMURF out of someone, verbally abusing someone, offending someone with a fart, giving someone ‘dirty looks’ and even making sarcastic remarks. All of these are the fault of the PERSON, not the fault of the event, injury, offensive behavior (legal or illegal), smell, or dirty look. If you get injured with your MT, while using your MT, it is not the MT’s fault. It is YOUR fault.

A weapon, or tool, is neither good nor bad. It has no inherent moral trait. It all depends on who uses that weapon. In the hands of law abiding citizens, a weapon used to stop a criminal from doing evil would be considered a good thing. The term "weapon" is not automatically a dirty word. Weapons are good in the hands of good people. As a society, we have become so politically correct and "sissyfied" that many have lost the concept of self defense.

HelpFromAbove by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

I have come to like visiting MTO multiple times per day. I even installed Tapatalk on my phone so that I could keep up with things while I was out and about. I have learned a lot about the history, some really neat tips and tricks about and also just how many different varieties of SAK, MT, and other tools there are. I have laughed a lot with some of the hilarious posts and comments that are scattered across the forum, that were posted by some really funny members. Which does not surprise me, MTO is a great site with some outstanding members who are truly passionate about their own brand of multi tool or the hobby that they do with their multi tool. From whittling some wood with a Swiss Army Knife to taking apart a perfectly good multi tool and modifying it for their own particular likes and needs, MTO has it all.

As the name (MTO) implies, this is a forum about multi tools; Not cameras (The Shutter Shop); not key chain/OPT items that are only a One Piece Tool with multiple purposes and can be used as a weapon(Keychain and One Piece Tools); not power tools, (not even considered a hand tool or a multi tool) which have been used as a weapon (Power Tools); not knives, which are also weapons (single blade knife - fixed or folded) (Edged Tools); not axes (again, single blade) and can also be used as a weapon (The Axe Hole); not cooking items, which have been used throughout history as a weapon (Outdoor Cuisine); not rescue tools (yes, there are a few multi tool rescue tools, but for the most part they are solidly constructed, heavy duty, single function tools that may have multiple purposes) which can also be used as a weapon (Rescue Tools); not outdoor tech, which are those useful electronic items, but are not multi tools and some of these can be weapons also (Outdoor Tech); not watches, although there are some really nice multi purpose watches posted (Watches); not sheaths, bags, packs and carry methods (these items are luggage, not a multi tool, although just sheaths might work for your multi tool) (Sheaths, Bags, Packs and Carry Methods); not flashlights, even though they can also be used as a bludgeoning weapon and can be utilized for multiple purposes (Flashlights). These are just some of the different boards that are within the overall forum of MTO. This doesn’t count the multitude of threads and posts, again scattered all over, that make MTO such as great site.

Then we come to the threads of MTO, which can be a weapon lovers paradise. There are so many posts (topics) that contain links to the item being discuss that it is a virtual catalog for every mall ninja to drool over. Not because they recognize something as a weapon, but because nearly everything on the market today is branded or named ‘Survival H’, ‘Tactical H’ or ‘Emergency Preparation H’. This does not even add the number of items that have the ‘EDC’ label attached to it. EDC…’I have to add that to my kit’, setup, BOB, INCH, whatever term(s) you use. And for those people who do know what they are looking at, regardless of how it is ‘labeled’ or ‘tagged’ there are those items that don’t carry the EDC, Survival, Tactical, Emergency Preparation H, etc..labels AND ARE STILL WEAPONS. Yes, anything and everything can be used as a weapon. David proved that when he struck down Goliath with a rock. And, let us not forget that  thread about slingshots which is posted in The Break Room or the post about Slingshot Laws in UK which is posted the The Outdoor and Survival Section. I can only wonder that since American’s can privately own guns that one slingshot thread is in The Break Room, while the Slingshot Laws in UK thread is posted in The Outdoor and Survival Section since they might need that slingshot for a survival situation, as they do not have access to a firearm? Whiskey and tools: Yeah, that is a safety issue, but we are all supposed to be adults, know better and recognize that the post is all ‘in fun’ and not hurting anyone.

There was already a thread about firearms before I even joined the forum that was 108 pages deep. The thread firearms that was started on August 13, 2014, 11:58:55 PM, by ducttapetech. I created a thread Firearms...the original multi tool; as I have not been into collecting or keeping up with the newest, latest and greatest thing in the multi tool category and wanted to know what the members came up with. Instead of ‘firearms that are also multi tools’ or ‘multi tools that are also firearms’ type posts, the side track posting started with the very first reply. Reply #86 was followed by reply #87 from a Moderator. That caught me off guard, while I was lacking sleep, and I did make a SMURFBUTT type comment back. It still does not change the fact that a Moderator ‘warned me’ with a non-warning statement about ‘why even post contentious material then?’. Another member responded with re: #90 which led to re: #91 This was my first clue that MTO might not be the place to share information about tools of ‘any type’. It is ok to post about our ‘10 car garage dreams’ (which are very deadly tools in the wrong hands) and our ‘defensive knives in open sight to scare off attackers’ (the mere sight off a knife will not scare off a dedicated and motivated attacker), but one post about a firearm gets one of three possible results. 1) it is ignored and basically kills the thread or 2) it is not met with comments or ideas that relate to the subject that is being discussed or is misinterpreted and then turned against the poster that dared to mention a firearm or 3) It is just skipped and everyone continues on like that post doesn’t exist in the conversation.

Knives for defensive carry: You have obviously never been in a knife fight and I hope you never have to be put into that position in your life. Nobody wins a knife fight, gun fight or war. Nobody wins a fight with their trusty SAK, Leatherman, Gerber, SOG, whichever brand of MT that you carry. I have personally been in one knife fight in my entire life. I will not go into lengthy detail as I do not want to derail my rant, but will provide a basic explanation. The knife fight took place while deployed with the US Marine Corps (generically the 1990s). I was wearing a ghillie suit.

For those of you familiar, you know, for those not familiar, I will explain. A ghillie suit is created, not manufactured. Yes, I know that the local mall ninja can order a ghillie suit online or pick one up at the local survival store. Anyways, canvas and burlap are attached to your uniform, via thread, iron on type canvas materials and adhesives. It is then covered in a ‘net’ type’ small cord set up and then strips of material, manmade and natural, are further attached from there. A ghillie suit is not a ‘high speed, low drag’ ninja martial arts piece of clothing. It is big and cumbersome. SMURF happened and I ended up in a knife fight and was lucky enough to not come out as the loser. I do have a minor scar that is still barely visible today. Like I said, a minor scar, but if you look you will notice that it was deep enough to take the coloring of my tattoo out. The thickness and bulk of the ghillie suit is the only thing that stopped that from being a major injury. MTO_KFScar_01 by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

Back to my rant. Knives, multi tools and other inert items for defensive carry? Yeah, good luck with that train of thought. I hope you are taking some serious martial arts and handheld weapons training. But, it is ok to post about a knife or any other ‘tool’ to be used as a defensive weapon. There is even a thread about the legality of slingshots in the UK. I don’t live in the UK, I don’t keep up on UK weapons laws and don’t reply to those threads unless it is something that is generic. Such as my post about a guy shooting his slingshot while riding his skateboard. I did not scream you guys need to change your laws! I didn’t ignore the thread either. I posted a video about a guy shooting his slingshot. Nothing more, nothing less. I have not responded to the response that came from that post. Not my area of the world and not the laws that govern me, so why get riled up about it? I do own a slingshot. I have taken it to the local range, where I get a lot of funny looks...you know those ‘this guy is bringing a slingshot to a gunfight’...as they wonder why the hell is he shooting a slingshot at a pistol/rifle range. Because 1) I can set up my target and have a nice backstop to ‘contain’ my ammunition so that I can save some money 2) It is safer (damn, there is that safety word again) than using it near my apartment complex. Even though my apartment complex is at the very edge of town and right across the street is wide open desert? Yes, because kids ride their bicycles, dirt bikes, play with sticks and do kid stuff out there and I do not want a stray ricochete hitting a kid. So yes, I do target practice a the local range. Do I take my slingshot with me when I load up the Jeep and wander around further out into the desert? Yes, and I do lose ammo, but hey I’m having fun trying to see if I can hit that little lizard over there or whatever it is that I am screwing around with.

I have also posted several things in my thread Grandpa Patch’s Porch, such as the How To Shot Like John Wick. Did I post, you guys have to carry a gun and train like this…..? NO! There is another thread about Most Iconic Lines. Action movies and one line comments were referenced several times. So what is the issue with posting some videos about how preparation for the action scenes were done? Or maybe, if you have the money and desire, go pay to actually learn from some of the best instructors and learn how to shoot like John Wick. I don’t know, but no one has responded to that post either, maybe for fear of even saying the word ‘Gun’, even in typed format discussing a movie.

I am not the world’s leading expert on martial arts, handheld weapons (offensive or defensive), firearms (pistol, rifle, shotgun or other LEO/Military weapons). I have served as a Small Arms Weapons Instructor in the Marine Corps for almost 4 of my 13yrs of active service. I have taught basic weapon operation and marksmanship to correction officers for the AZ. Dept of Corrections (3yrs) and as a certified NRA Instructor taught CCW courses in Arizona, USA (2 1/2yrs) to a bunch of brand new gun owners, who travel south during the winter months and will probably SMURF themselves instead of using their weapon. They will not continue to train or practice. They will load it, put it in its’ holster (or their purse) and go off happily ever after. The next thing they load will be their shorts. And then there are the kids who just turned 21 and buying their very first handgun, mostly so they can show off, act tough or talk about their vast knowledge of weapons that they obtained from a CCW course. They are taught SAFETY, OPERATION OF THE WEAPON, BASIC MARKSMANSHIP and PERSONAL PROTECTION IN THE HOME. Part of that course requires a lawyer or law enforcement officer to teach. I tell them all and I will say it here. Seek further training, practise safely and don’t walk around with a SMURFEDUP holster that is carried openly that screams. I’m cool, I’ve got a gun and don’t know what I’m doing. I am not trying to teach anyone anything, nor do I press my knowledge to the edge and make comments about someone’s chosen weapon of choice vs no weapon of choice, ammunition preferences, Stand Your Ground vs run out the backdoor choice, tactics in the home, hotel, camping tent or walking through the nearest WalMart vs down the street vs through a crowd. I have said and I will say it again. TRAIN WITH WHAT YOU CARRY AND CARRY WHAT YOU TRAIN WITH.

Maybe, just maybe we can all share topics about ‘tools’ and other items of interest’ without some negative comment, response from another member who doesn’t agree with your choice of tool selection or just flat out being ignored. Constructive comments, dialogue, discussion and disagreements are all healthy forms of communication. I do not modify any of my ‘tools’. I do not have the knowledge, workspace or equipment to do that in my apartment, while my grandson is running around. So if I need something done beyond basic sharpening and cleaning I have it done professionally. Yet, I still comment or use the ‘like smiley’ or ‘I AGREE smiley’ for those posts that contain an image or project that I really like or believe the crafter has done a great job with. Why? Because I like MTO and enjoy the members, their knowledge and the information that members have been posting for years.

I have changed my forum signature several times. I have added images/quotes, deleted images/quotes, had Administrators assist me with making some changes and then change it some more.  There is one question that is in my profile and it has been there since the first day I join MTOForums. Is it better to carry a ‘paddle or to be ‘up a creek’ without one? Notice the ‘paddle’ and ‘up a creek’ have ‘  ‘ around them? It allows the sentence to be rephrased into ‘Is it better to carry a ‘gun’ or to be ‘in a dangerous situation’ without one. MY PREFERENCE does not mean I am telling you to carry a gun. It is there to make you think about what you can or need to do to protect yourself, your family and your loved ones. If your choice is to carry XYZ or to not carry at all, fine, that is your choice. Amazing how the people who are pro-gun, pro-carry, and are trained in the use of the weapon and continue to train and learn as much as possible about protecting themselves, their family and their loved ones are ‘targeted’ by those who don’t like guns with comments about this, that and the other thing of how, why, where a gun will not work. A situationally aware pro-gun person who does carry has probably already thought about the when, where, how and if they even pull their gun situations. If they haven’t then they need to start doing some thinking, getting some training and avoiding those ‘dangerous areas’ where they probably shouldn’t be in the first place.

Intelligence by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

So I will ask: Even though I have almost a full tens years of actual weapons instructor experience (Military, Security/Corrections and Civilian combined), have I really taught you anything about weapons or tactics with this post? Or have I just given you some information to think about and then let you determine your own perspectives and what you want to do with the information? If you believe that I just taught you something about shooting or tactics in this post, then you REALLY DO NEED to seek some professional training to further assist you from endangering yourself and others.

[/rant]

[Don Pablo]

I thought this was going to be about Family....

[ezdog]

I thought this was going to be about Family....

Yeah I thought it would be about the real "F word" and making Family.

Gramps, I think your answer is simple.

Politics.

And you have already made your position way more than a little clear.

[pfrsantos]

I thought this was going to be about Family....

I thought about full tang blades...

 

[Chako]

I may add...not just politics...but culture as well. Folks from around the world have varying opinions on things due to their cultural background.

For example...I do not get how Americans talk about firearms for protection. Is the US that unsafe? But then again. I know many of our European members aren't even allowed a smoke pole, and may view my views on firearms as something abnormal or odd. Different strokes for different folks...and a lot of that depends on cultural norms and where you live.

[ezdog]

I may add...not just politics...but culture as well. Folks from around the world have varying opinions on things due to their cultural background.

For example...I do not get how Americans talk about firearms for protection. Is the US that unsafe? But then again. I know many of our European members aren't even allowed a smoke pole, and may view my views on firearms as something abnormal or odd. Different strokes for different folks...and a lot of that depends on cultural norms and where you live.

Agree completely which I was considering to be Politics as well,perhaps without making clear enough.

It all really depends on your point of view.

We in America have a unique set of liberties and with that comes different responsibilities, sadly I think we demonstrate all too clearly at times how at odds these can be.

[Vidar]

I may add...not just politics...but culture as well. Folks from around the world have varying opinions on things due to their cultural background.

That is true. In many countries the opinions and culture also varies a lot within the country, but the laws are usually one-size-fits all and applies to all regardless of differences. Combine that with a complicated matter, and strong opinions both ways, and it is a recipe for a heated subject.

[lister]

Only two things I can say about weapons:

I find them interesting.

High population density and/or high social inequality don't mix well with firearms.

[Mechanickal]

Not seeing alot of replies in gun oriented topics is, according to me, because not alot of places in the world allow to even own them.

So why don't I respond there?
I have ZERO knowledge about them, I have ZERO experience.
The only real gun I've ever seen was on a police officer's belt...

So I can comment like "that looks beautifully made", but that's about all I can do.

Not being interested in a topic or not knowledgeable enough to reply is not the same as being rude or inpolite.

Not every member visits the car topics.
Not every member visits the hand tool sub forums.

Heck, some members never browse outside the specific subforum of their interests. Nothing wrong with that

To me it just seems that you are interested in a very specific niche, that is not interesting to all. Most likely because of the things others mentioned: difference in regulations and culture.

[Top-Gear-24]

Okay, this will be my first and only reaction in this topic ...

When somebody who's been a member here for one month (exactly ONE month) starts a "rant topic" like this, I can't help but think that this person's main reason for joining this place is/was just to start a commotion.  I believe it's well known that politics and religion are a "no go" here, which is one of the main reasons why this is the best place on the net.  And the whole gun debate is highly political in my opinion and, as shown in the past, an easy way to get tensions rising. 

And yes, we do have other things here than multitools, like the axe hole, and the shutter shop, for example.  But in non of those sections have I ever seen anything that even comes close to this topic.  I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone showing his collection of guns here (hell, if I lived in the U.S. I would probably be a gun owner too), but the way I feel it, this topic has nothing to do with showing your love for guns, instead it's all about imposing your opinion on others, and that feeling is starting to irritate me more and more ...

Maybe, just maybe we can all share topics about ‘tools’ and other items of interest’ without some negative comment, response from another member who doesn’t agree with your choice of tool selection or just flat out being ignored. Constructive comments, dialogue, discussion and disagreements are all healthy forms of communication.

You make it sound as if this place is full of negativity ... I love MTO because nobody here makes negative comments on what you post. You can post pics of a very rare and expensive knife, or from an old beat up SAK that you just bought at a flea market, either way, you will always get positive reactions.  If there is any negativity here, it's in topics like this ...

And posting one of these ...

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THIS IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

For me, this just shows that you're only doing this to stir things up, so if you post one of these you can go on and say or post whatever you like without anyone taking offence, I don't think so.

To be clear, I'm not going to voice my opinion on the whole gun debate, because that's exactly what a post like this is trying to provoke.  But it's all the "pro-gun" propaganda in your post(s) that I've had enough of.

Maybe I should've started and ended my post with a [rant] [/rant], and a bit of moving rant warning, just so I wouldn't offend anybody ... 


This next part is to all other members here at MTO, and to Grant and all the Moderators:

Those who know me around here will also know that I'm not someone who likes to post a reaction like this, maybe it's because I love this place and its members so much that I feel like topics like this can harm my (our) safe haven in this otherwise harsh place we call the internet.  In no way is/was it my intention to offend somebody.  And if Grant and/or the mods should decide that I was out of line here, please let me know, or feel free to delete my post. 

Maybe it's just me, and if so, it might be time for me to take a break here ... who knows  .

[ezdog]

Okay, this will be my first and only reaction in this topic ...

When somebody who's been a member here for one month (exactly ONE month) starts a "rant topic" like this, I can't help but think that this person's main reason for joining this place is/was just to start a commotion.  I believe it's well known that politics and religion are a "no go" here, which is one of the main reasons why this is the best place on the net.  And the whole gun debate is highly political in my opinion and, as shown in the past, an easy way to get tensions rising. 

And yes, we do have other things here than multitools, like the axe hole, and the shutter shop, for example.  But in non of those sections have I ever seen anything that even comes close to this topic.  I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with someone showing his collection of guns here (hell, if I lived in the U.S. I would probably be a gun owner too), but the way I feel it, this topic has nothing to do with showing your love for guns, instead it's all about imposing your opinion on others, and that feeling is starting to irritate me more and more ...

Maybe, just maybe we can all share topics about ‘tools’ and other items of interest’ without some negative comment, response from another member who doesn’t agree with your choice of tool selection or just flat out being ignored. Constructive comments, dialogue, discussion and disagreements are all healthy forms of communication.

You make it sound as if this place is full of negativity ... I love MTO because nobody here makes negative comments on what you post. You can post pics of a very rare and expensive knife, or from an old beat up SAK that you just bought at a flea market, either way, you will always get positive reactions.  If there is any negativity here, it's in topics like this ...

And posting one of these ...

WARNING: RANT IN PROGRESS. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE THEN YOU MAY WANT TO SCROLL PAST THIS POST. THIS IS A LARGE POST, SO KEEP SCROLLING UNTIL YOU SEE THE NEXT POST.

Offend by Grandpa Patch, on Flickr

For me, this just shows that you're only doing this to stir things up, so if you post one of these you can go on and say or post whatever you like without anyone taking offence, I don't think so.

To be clear, I'm not going to voice my opinion on the whole gun debate, because that's exactly what a post like this is trying to provoke.  But it's all the "pro-gun" propaganda in your post(s) that I've had enough of.

Maybe I should've started and ended my post with a [rant] [/rant], and a bit of moving rant warning, just so I wouldn't offend anybody ... 


This next part is to all other members here at MTO, and to Grant and all the Moderators:

Those who know me around here will also know that I'm not someone who likes to post a reaction like this, maybe it's because I love this place and its members so much that I feel like topics like this can harm my (our) safe haven in this otherwise harsh place we call the internet.  In no way is/was it my intention to offend somebody.  And if Grant and/or the mods should decide that I was out of line here, please let me know, or feel free to delete my post. 

Maybe it's just me, and if so, it might be time for me to take a break here ... who knows  .

I think you said it well and I thank you for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Top-Gear-24]

I think you said it well and I thank you for it.

I just came back to delete my post ... 

Too late now ...

But thank you for your support my friend  .

[ezdog]

Just call me Johnny Raincloud.

But the Truth is the Truth so no need to delete to me.

I think you said it well and I thank you for it.

I just came back to delete my post ... 

Too late now ...

But thank you for your support my friend  .

[Butch]

 

[pfrsantos]

I think you said it well and I thank you for it.

I just came back to delete my post ... 

Too late now ...

But thank you for your support my friend  .

You're not alone in your opinion, my friend. If not for your post, I wouldn't be posting here again.

Just

 

[gerleatherberman]

+1
I have to agree with TOP-GEAR as well.

It is one of those topics that nobody is going to change their mind about. So, knowing that, it doesn't make much sense to rant about it. There are threads dedicated to firearms too that you could just post pictures and experiences about your firearms. I think you've got common sense, Patch. Surely you know your rant is politically charged and slightly confrontational(even if you didn't outwardly intend it to be so).

I love MT.o, because I love multitools, SAKs, knives, and etc. Great people, all over this blue sphere, make this site great, but there are topics that need to be avoided, and your rant is a good example of what should be avoided. There are tons of sites out there dedicated to firearms debates. MT.o is NOT one of them.

[hiraethus]

Edit: on second thoughts, I'll come back to this later.

[hiraethus]

Right, sorry.  Was in the middle of putting the kids to bed and didn't want to come across as though I was talking to a 3-year old.

MTO is not anti-gun.  It's not really anti-anything.

Members here should feel free to post about whatever they want and are absolutely given the space to do so.  But it works both ways.  Don't complain if you don't get a response, or don't get the response you want.  Don't post contentious topics just to get a response.  Respect other people's opinions and beliefs, and understand that not everyone is into the same things as you.  And don't get upset if someone posts about a subject you don't like.

[AimlessWanderer]

I didn't read it all, well, kinda skimmed through it to be honest. My brain starts to shut down and my eyes start to glaze over when people start discussing firearms to be honest.

However I agree with Eric, that I'm unsure what this was meant to achieve.

I am neither pro nor anti. For me personally, they're just irrelevant. I'm unlikely to ever be looking down either end of a barrel. I have shot clays a couple of times, and have done some pest control. Neither of which made me want to own more, do more, watch more, or have guns as a part of my life in any way.

Clays is a fun day out as a one-off, but I'd be bored out of my tiny mind doing it more than once a year. There's usually a competition at the UK meet, which is which is great fun too ... once a year. So despite what many might assume, I'm not anti, I just don't care.

Some folks like them. Some folks need them. Fine by me. Different people are allowed different ones in different areas, and for different reasons. No sweat off my nose.

Although I do wish people could talk about them as carefully as they use them. Not a comment aimed at anyone in particular.

In a good conversation, or a good debate, both people should leave the arena a little bit wiser. I have yet to see that with firearms. It's one of those topics that just makes everyone dig their heels in more, and shout back louder, whichever "side" they are on. Whenever I'm around such a conversation, even if I'm not taking part, I can feel my IQ level dropping, second by second.

I know it's only a matter of time, before my culture, or someone else's, is admonished or subject to some purile inanity. It's only a matter of time, before what the law should be for whoever and wherever. It's only a matter of time, before I want to say, "find somewhere that does what you want, go there, and leave the rest of us alone, because I don't care", because unfortunately it's one of those topics where emotion rules over rationale on all sides - probably even in what I'm typing right now - and leads to no positive outcome whatsoever - probably just like what I'm typing right now.

Sometimes it is meant with all good intention - just the way I'm typing right now, and when I've finished typing, and when everyone else has finished typing, nobody's mind will be changed, but somebody might be upset.

I'm ambivalent about firearms, but that last paragraph pretty much sums up my feelings on firearm discussions. Some folks say there's no winners in a knife fight, it's just a matter of who loses least. Some discussions can be like that too, no winners, just varying degrees of losing.

And on that note, I will withdraw 

I wish the best for all who venture on in this thread, whatever your culture, and whatever your beliefs. I hope you all come out the other side without feeling any sense of loss, frustration, or grievance

[ironraven]

Honestly, I was expecting a a rant about the use of "WTF" and "AF" without censorship in the media recently. Or perhaps the use of "Flickr" as a curse word, after seeing your image blocks, but I think condemning someone to Photobucket is probably a stronger curse.

As probably one of the most pro-gun members here (might be a couple tied, but unless you're for making nukes unregulated you won't be more so), allow me to say that you've not helped our cause with this. You're not terribly coherent with this post. And I'll admit I didn't read it completely, but I think I've followed- a tantrum. Which reflects poorly on all of us who could have been your allies, and makes at least some of us want to tell people "I'm not with him".

Simply put, MTO is an international and apolitical zone. Like Rick's Cafe, with less gambling and more cutlery. Some of your posts have been very political, as have several of your threads, to the point I walked away from them without even bothering to comment. Your tone is often very off putting- in fact, condescending, like no one here has any experience or knowledge, and you're here to save us and learn us. If I had to sum up the character of the forum in one word, it would be "humility". No one is here to learn from me, or you, or any one person in particular. We're all here to learn from eachother and from the universe. If you can't take having your beliefs challenged, that's troublesome and doubly so with this topic. Anger is not the tone I'd suggest when discussing firearms.

It isn't too late to claim you'd had a bad day combined with cold medication and/or strong drink, and apologize.

[papadan]

I may add...not just politics...but culture as well. Folks from around the world have varying opinions on things due to their cultural background.

For example...I do not get how Americans talk about firearms for protection. Is the US that unsafe? But then again. I know many of our European members aren't even allowed a smoke pole, and may view my views on firearms as something abnormal or odd. Different strokes for different folks...and a lot of that depends on cultural norms and where you live.

The simple answer is YES. But the problem came from our ancestors. Had the US made the same laws and enforced them as Europe did, we would not have the gun problems we have now. Now it is way too late to even think of gun control, there are just too many of them and only the law abiding citizens would give up the guns leaving control to the criminals. When I served, I had never heard of a mass shooting anywhere, now 40 years later, I am always armed and ready.

[badwolf]

All I can offer here is

[gregozedobe]

Living in Australia I find it impossible to truly understand the attitudes towards guns that some (not all) USA people have.  I have also found it extremely difficult to have an intelligent conversation about the unintended side effects of large scale gun ownership in a society, so these days I usually don't bother. 

I definitely agree with others that guns and gun control is a highly charged topic which too often leads to misunderstandings and hostility, and in a friendly forum like MTo it is something best avoided.

[pfrsantos]

[ThePeacent]

unlike some members posting here, I did read your entire post Grandpa,
and like most members here, I totally agree with TopGear's and Ironraven's posts

You've been here short time and more than half of your posts are rants, teachings, recommendations, statements or speeches regarding gun ownership, gun carrying, gun use, gun training, gun control, gun laws, gun adequacy...

And generally they're written in an off-putting, condescending, "holier than thou" or superiority tone.

Like most here, I believe you'd be better writing about the other stuff you've written about (SAK maintenance, whittling, etc.) and integrating in the community rather than trying to set the rules and strong opinions about a subject that:

a. has never been conflicting and cause of much trouble here in the first place 
b. many or most people here could care less about 
c. does have a strong political connotation that this forum is against discussing and getting too heated about 

I do hope you stay with us and keep posting your ideas and thoughts in a more friendly tone and share opinions about things we can all enjoy and talk about at length with mutual respect and enjoyment 

[AimlessWanderer]

To all those who posted after me, particularly Mr Raven, and the vast majority of those who posted before me...

[Aloha]

Let me try a different angle. 

What makes MTO one of the best sites on the net is, self edit.  Its not that topics or post dont get heated or people dont get themselves worked up, its that we tend to edit ourselves for the most part.  If you or anyone begins to post something that even for a nano second makes you think  hmm should I post that? Don't.  What makes MTO work is acknowledging its not worth the fuss nor coming off as an arse.  Yes there are post that do spark lively conversation and even leaves folks upset.  We've had members who admittedly had to take a break.  We've had members leave altogether.  We've even had a few banned.

Its a bummer this happens but theres not going to be a perfect mingling of so many people from all over.  We tend to self edit which by and large makes this place run smoother than most places.  It also about respect.  We are all here to chill, learn, share, have a laugh, show off, camaraderie, hide in the back ground and lurk, participate in the GAWs, and for a whole lot of other reasons.  The one thing I am certain of,  we are not here to take a piss on each other.  To wave our countries flags and tell others how amazing we have it and how smurfty they do.  We represent a wide range of,  well, everything.  We've got Doctors, Lawyers, those not working, blue collar, tech, scientists, laborers, speSmurfpillst,  military, students, teachers, LEO, retirees, and pretty much everything in between.  Its what makes the place so amazing.  There seems to be ZERO ego that I've detected in my years here.       

If I have learned anything from my time here its, we are more alike than different.  Its why this place is what it is.  This community, these people, are what makes this place so special.  Sure we came for the tools and such but for many its become a home away from home.  A neutral zone in this crazy world. 

So if anyone wants to post anything then by all means go ahead but I urge you to self edit in our little cove.  Its not just so we don't get our feather ruffled, its respect.  In the end its Grants house and while he doesn't have many rules we respect the ones he does have.  More importantly we respect the brotherhood and sisterhood we have chosen to share in.  I say again,  self edit if for a nano second you think it may offend or stir up unneeded nonsense. 

I hope you stick around grandpa.   

   

[kirk13]

Very well said Aloha

 

[Aloha]

Very well said Aloha

 

Hi friend.   

[kirk13]

 

Very well said Aloha

 

Hi friend.