(Not) My Design for a Multitool

Tom Munch · **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:30:16 PM

Posted some quick pics of the Knipex Plier Wrench.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=884.msg10338#msg10338

J-sews · **Reply #31 on:** March 11, 2007, 02:07:18 AM

Are you still thinking of using the plier-wrench head in a multitool mod Tom? It looks like it would be a tricky project.

Tom Munch · **Reply #32 on:** March 11, 2007, 03:09:38 AM

I think it would be very tricky, but there are several ways to do it - folding handles, half folding handles, extending handles, etc.

Tom Munch · **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:43:52 PM

So I want to work on the design of a tool with the Knipex Plier Head at the core. I'm also thinking of having a ratcheting bit driver that can separate from the tool for true plier & screwdriver operation on a screw & nut. This WILL be tricky.

Tom Munch · **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2007, 05:15:18 PM

I have a couple Sears ratchets that might be adaptable.

damota · **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2007, 11:52:52 PM

I have started to carry a Draper ratchet driver very much like the top one in your photo Tom. I just tuck it down beside the bits in one of the pouch's. If the plastic piece on the top pulls of to reveal a ¹/₄" socket driver they are probably the same rebadged.

Dave

J-sews · **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2007, 01:52:54 AM

I can hardly wait to see what you come up with Tom. I'm thinking that attaching non-folding handles (which have various folding blades and tools in them) would be an achievable goal. And a ratchet device on the end of one handle is doable. Do you plan to use handles from an existing multitool, or fabricate your own from scratch?

Tom Munch · **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2007, 01:59:31 AM

I'd have to talk to my machinist friend to come up with handles from scratch. I'm really interested in a detachable ratcheting screwdriver too.

Tom Munch · **Reply #38 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:01:58 AM

Boy, this is daunting. I need to think a lot before I start this.

J-sews · **Reply #39 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:19:30 AM

EEEK!

Don't use the word "daunting." Or the word "intimidating." Or any other words like that which could lead down the path to saying, "Aw, the heck with this project...."

Seriously, I'd like to see you hang in there and make a go of it. Yes, lots and lots of careful planning will be in order. Maybe trace the components onto some heavy cardstock, cut them out as templates, then puzzle out how they should all fit together. You could do all that before ever cutting actual metal.

Tom Munch · **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:03:13 AM

I'm really hoping the manufacturers are watching our words & are thinking of prototypes that we can't produce. Personally I may be just as happy with the separate tools I'd be mixing for this project.

But back to the design, here's the list of things I'd like to have on this tool (or my dream tool).

Knipex Plier Wrench (with wire cutter if there's a way to do it)
One-hand blade (preferably with replaceable utility blade)
Detachable ratcheting screwdriver/bitdriver & at least 4 bits
Bottle opener
File (preferably diamond)
?

Tom Munch · **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:28:25 AM

I picked up an even smaller Knipex Cobra Plier today. I'm wondering if this might be a better starting point for a multitool.

J-sews · **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:27:13 AM

The Cobra looks like a very capable/versatile plier too. Seems like the real bugger is going to be, how to attach different handles to it?

Tom Munch · **Reply #43 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:04:24 AM

Now I'm thinking of folding the handles over the head of the plier like the SwissTool & making it a little longer to allow a longer main blade - still one-handed like the Kershaw. I like the idea of having the bit driver detachable like the (I think it was) Coleman tool. I'm having trouble drawing or describing this. The bit driver could have a fold-out extension that could fold out 90 degrees for extra leverage. The whole thing would come out of one side of the handle to enable better use & two-handed plier & driver operation. The other handle would have bottle opener, file, ?? The knife might have to be in that side as well if the bit driver is big enough to get a good grip on. I need to try to draw this.

Tom Munch · **Reply #44 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:12:16 AM

Yes I found the Coleman pictures in another thread here. Imagine at least one side being a bit driver that is detachable like the Coleman cartridge.

Then imagine having a fold-out like the blade that is hollow & the width of the inside dimension for leverage. Might as well put a ratchet in there too.

Then imagine the other side having no cartridge & instead a one-hand blade, file, can/bottle opener, & awl. We could even make it user-changeable.

Does that sound good?

J-sews · **Reply #45 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:26:10 AM

Quote from: Tom Munch on March 25, 2007, 01:12:16 AM

.....Imagine at least one side being a bit driver that is detachable like the Coleman cartridge.......Then imagine having a fold-out like the blade that is hollow & the width of the inside dimension for leverage.

So it would first detach, then fold out into a T-handle driver, right?

Quote from: Tom Munch on March 25, 2007, 01:12:16 AM

....Might as well put a ratchet in there too......

Excuse me, a ratcheting T-handle driver.

Am I following you correctly on this?

Tom Munch · **Reply #46 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:29:26 AM

Yes, either a T-handle or an L-handle would work. Detachable like the Coleman. The ratchet would be in the tip.

Tom Munch · **Reply #47 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:35:25 AM

I'm also thinking the plier could stick through the handle like the Crunch if it needs to.

Tom Munch · **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2007, 03:07:59 AM

So the whole thing would resemble a SwissTool (outside opening tools) with a Knipex head, a detachable cartridge ratcheting bit driver & bits in one handle, & a one-handed knife & whatever tools desired in the other handle. It would be the width of the Knipex plier at least. I would prefer the knife to actually be a replaceable utility blade. It will be difficult to get that into the handle unless it is quite a bit wider. That may mean the driver side has to be narrower to make the handle not too wide overall.

J-sews · **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:02:09 AM

I see what you mean about the plier sticking through the handle.....that Knipex head doesn't lend itself very well to fitting multitool handles around it. (Multitool handles which are loaded with blades and drivers that is)

Not to pick on the Knipex head. The same difficulty would apply to any channel-lock type plier head. And yet the pictures you've shown have clearly demonstrated the advantages of that type of plier.

Hmmmm, there's gotta be a way!

damota · **Reply #50 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:36:44 AM

How about folding it like a SOG Paratrooper but without the head being folded into the handle. Not ideal but could be done.

Dave

Tom Munch · **Reply #51 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:46:50 PM

It's going to be a really beefy tool just to get that plier head in. That's okay with me if it is truly useful. The Cobra is lighter than the Plier Wrench & a little more compact. Either has narrow enough jaws that two good-size blades can lay alongside them on either side like the traditional multitool does.

The middle tools will have to be shorter like a Gerber, so the handle may have to be a little longer to incorporate longer tools. They won't nest as nicely as a needlenose, so we're looking for something more along the lines of the Crunch.

I'd like a short extension on the bit driver for reach too. I find I use that a lot on a bit driver. I'd sacrifice the ratchet for an extension if I had to since a detachable driver with an L or T on it would be plenty maneuverable.

I need to get a cad program or make a wood mockup to see the mechanics of this.

J-sews · **Reply #52 on:** March 25, 2007, 01:57:20 PM

Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this Tom.

ps ~ I remember reading somewhere about this guy who made cardboard models of his first multitool design.....

Tom Munch · **Reply #53 on:** March 25, 2007, 05:47:16 PM

Yah, Bob, more thought than my wife would like me to. I don't really have the tools & time to do a project like this, much less the know how, but I really want to encourage manufacturers to innovate, so I can at least make a few cardboard models.

I wish we could get a few patented designs together from companies like Knipex, Wiha, Victorinox, SOG, etc. to make a multitool we can all proudly carry that gets real work done. I love the current designs, but I keep lamenting here that they are just toys when you have a real job to do. Maybe I'm missing the point of a multitool, but I want a real tool for more of the real work I do each week.

Tom

supratentorial · **Reply #54 on:** March 31, 2007, 07:23:45 AM

Quote from: Tom Munch on March 25, 2007, 05:47:16 PM

...I keep lamenting here that they are just toys when you have a real job to do. Maybe I'm missing the point of a multitool, but I want a real tool for more of the real work I do each week.

What makes you feel that they are toys? What real work couldn't the multi-tool perform? Were the implements on the multi-tools inadequate toys or did you just need a tool that wasn't available in a multi-tool?

Much of the discussion in this thread has been about pliers. If you compare the head of a combination pliers to the head of a PowerLock or SwissTool, I think you'll be hard pressed to say that the PowerLock or SwissTool pliers are toys by comparison--especially if you're comparing the multi-tools to a Craftsman or Ace brand combination pliers.

The combination pliers on a multi-tool isn't a toy just because it's not a PlierWrench. A combination pliers and a plierwrench are two different types of tools with different uses. There are some jobs that are better suited for one or the other. How would you cut wire with a PlierWrench? I've held fish hooks, pulled burs from dog fur, and pulled a metal shard out of my hand with the needle nose on my SOG multi-tools. A PlierWrench wouldn't be particularly well suited for those tasks. Although a combination pliers could be used to remove nuts and bolts, it shouldn't be used for that purpose...atleast in my opinion. The PlierWrench would be much more appropriate for that task.

The wire cutters might be a poor performer on some multi-tools--not all though. I'd say most multi-tool cutters are especially poor for cutting stranded wire but some regular tools are designed for stranded or solid wire, not both.

Although some multi-tool manufacturers have made steps in the right direction, multi-tools do lack the ergonomics of dedicated pliers but that's a new topic.

If you feel that multi-tools are toys because of the quality or design of the drivers, I'd agree in some cases. Does Klein or WIHA or any other major tool company make a regular screwdriver with a head shaped like the Phillips on a SwissTool?

The box on a Klein screwdriver says "precision-machined tip for exact fit". Why is it the most tool manufacturers take this seriously but multi-tool manufactures tend not to take it seriously? There are exceptions (i.e. Leatherman Core Flat drivers and SOG Phillips drivers) but most multi-tool drivers lack the quality of most regular drivers.

BTW, I had some gift money to spend and I bought one of the Knipex PlierWrenches and some other tools. I got the PlierWrench today and love it.

Have you seen the Eifel Geared PlierWrench? I can't remember all the implements but I think it had interchangable jaws, a cutter, a flat driver, and a pry bar but I could be wrong. I have one lying around somewhere but I'm not sure which toolbox its in!

Back on the subject of the modified tool... I wouldn't chuck my combination plier-based multi-tools out the window, but I'd love to have a Knipex PlierWrench head and ratchet driver on a multi-tool. Bring on the designs!

Tom Munch · **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:10:19 PM

Supratentorial,

The pliers on multitools ARE real tools, but I don't pick up a needlenose or even a lineman's plier for most work I need to do. I pick up a pair of water pump pliers or locking pliers or even slip-joint pliers. I usually need wider jaws. That's why this thread turned that way & why I want a different plier at the heart of a multitool. As far as cutters, I think it would be feasible to have a cutter built into another type of plier, it just hasn't been done yet. I think we can design a multitool with a combination plier that is much more versatile.

I hope you're enjoying your Plier Wrench. It's quite a piece of nice design, huh?

Tom

supratentorial · **Reply #56 on:** March 31, 2007, 11:14:51 PM

It's a gem. I bought it with gift money but I probably would have bought it anyway since $36 isn't bad for a quality tool that should last a lifetime.

I don't have experience with CAD software but sourceforge might be a good place to search for freely available software. Just taking a quick peak, I found http://sourceforge.net/projects/avocado-cad--don't know if its any good though. Cardboard models are a good starting point also--architects often begin with similar models.

Tom Munch · **Reply #57 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:46:17 AM

I finally started to put my ideas down for this tool. Here's a sketch.

Tom Munch · **Reply #58 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:48:12 AM

The driver in the top snaps into the handle. Handles probably have to be longer.

Tom Munch · **Reply #59 on:** April 09, 2007, 02:00:26 AM

Turns out Wiha makes a water pump Cobra plier too.

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(Not) My Design for a Multitool

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