Lets talk iconic knives.

[Aloha]

I think overall we are all closer to what is iconic.  We have some distinctions that probably need to be made and foot notes on predecessors but over all we're closer than we think. 

Icon, relevant, famous, would tend to close gaps rather than separate.  Each knife would fall into several categories and maybe falling into several serves to elevate into iconic stature?   

[ThePeacent]

I'm going to have to disagree a little there, El P.

The Ghurka knife is most definitely Iconic.

This is an image that defines the Ghurka soldier. The soldiers made the knife famous and legendary, and the knife is now a symbol...an icon...of the soldiers. Much the way the USMC combat/utility was (and still is) for US Marines. Both of these knives are used as symbols of their respective units. To the same extent, I'd argue that the F-S fighting knife (or variants) became the symbol, icon, of the Commandos or Special Forces.
At least for Americans, the Bowie knife is an iconic knife: it represents the frontier, the Wild West, maybe the cowboy. But some Bowie knives are also 'Famous', for example the Bowie in the Movie "Iron Mistress". A knife that became famous and helped solidify the Bowie knife's iconic status.

absolutely, not disagreeing,
I never meant to say that one knife or blade couldn't fall into more than one of those three groups, in fact most of them overlap and have a bit of each,
the Bowie is certainly iconic, and is famous too, because of films, tales, novels, and stories, but I wouldn't say it was really relevant, almost any other knife would've done what it did (a puukko, a nessmuk, a Khiber...) in the Sandbar battle, and the subsequent survival and fighting tales, fights, outdoors travels and exploration of the wild US

the Gladius is very relevant, it allowed for the Roman empire to fight in their formation techniques, gain terrain in the grounds and lands they invaded, conferred advantage over the weapon styles and designs of their enemies, proved superior to their adversaries defenses...but it's not really "famous" in that if you ask or question people about what a "Gladius" is or if they could draw the main Roman Empire Soldier's sword, they would fail to do so...or "iconic", in that the Roman Shield, Helmet, formation and peplum/armor are as well known and recognised as their Gladius, if not more

finally, a Buck 110 is iconic, because it's a symbol or drawing the shape of which embodies the "folding hunting knife" by itself, and its profile immediately brings to mind the idea and real knife to anybody's mind, it was relatively relevant in that it introduced the first reliable and successful folding knife with a lock back in the US; it sold millions, it was carried by everyone, but to me is hard to say it shaped history or became a necessary tool, as it is, to shape or develop the progress of its country of origin and inhabitants. A drop point liner lock, a trailing point frame lock or a spey blade compression lock of equal strength, at the time, would've been equally successful and also "the first" of all the things he 110 achieved and was

[Nix]

absolutely, not disagreeing,
I never meant to say that one knife or blade couldn't fall into more than one of those three groups, in fact most of them overlap and have a bit of each,
the Bowie is certainly iconic, and is famous too, because of films, tales, novels, and stories, but I wouldn't say it was really relevant, almost any other knife would've done what it did (a puukko, a nessmuk, a Khiber...) in the Sandbar battle, and the subsequent survival and fighting tales, fights, outdoors travels and exploration of the wild US

the Gladius is very relevant, it allowed for the Roman empire to fight in their formation techniques, gain terrain in the grounds and lands they invaded, conferred advantage over the weapon styles and designs of their enemies, proved superior to their adversaries defenses...but it's not really "famous" in that if you ask or question people about what a "Gladius" is or if they could draw the main Roman Empire Soldier's sword, they would fail to do so...or "iconic", in that the Roman Shield, Helmet, formation and peplum/armor are as well known and recognised as their Gladius, if not more

finally, a Buck 110 is iconic, because it's a symbol or drawing the shape of which embodies the "folding hunting knife" by itself, and its profile immediately brings to mind the idea and real knife to anybody's mind, it was relatively relevant in that it introduced the first reliable and successful folding knife with a lock back in the US; it sold millions, it was carried by everyone, but to me is hard to say it shaped history or became a necessary tool, as it is, to shape or develop the progress of its country of origin and inhabitants. A drop point liner lock, a trailing point frame lock or a spey blade compression lock of equal strength, at the time, would've been equally successful and also "the first" of all the things he 110 achieved and was

Hmmmmmm....certainly the Gladius was one of the most important edged weapons in history, for the reasons you note. I think you may be right about the gladius' limited recognition, but, dang, to me it would be iconic. Maybe better to say "the iconic edged weapon of the Roman Army."

I also think the Bowie knife was relevant. To be more precise, the idea of the Bowie knife. At the Sandbar fight, James Bowie is thought to have used a common 'butcher knife'. No one is really sure what that means. After the Sandbar fight he developed the 'Bowie Knife'. (maybe his brother Rezin or blacksmith James Black deserve the credit?)  And no one is really sure what that looked like either.

But the idea of the Bowie knife became popular. It stood for something (self-defense? self-reliance? Capability?). That idea did change history. "Bowie Knives" were in high demand as people started to migrate West. It was the "Bowie Knife" that became popular all along the frontier (and back East, too). When the war between the states broke out (1860-1865), many soldiers equipped themselves with Bowie knives (of every size, shape, and description). After the war, gold miners, cowboys, ranchers, etc..., armed themselves with Bowie knives.

True...other designs could have served just as well--there was no standardized "Bowie Knife". But it was the fame and, I'd say Iconic status, of the Bowie knife that made it relevant in American history. I don't know for sure, but the "KaBar" seems to have been derived from a Bowie design. So too have many hunting knives. I'd say that makes the Bowie relevant, iconic, and famous.

[Nix]

It's interesting to note that even in the age when Mark Twain was writing about Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn (1870's-1880's), the Barlow pocket knife had already achieved an Iconic status:

Mary gave him a bran-new "Barlow" knife worth twelve and a half cents; and the convulsion of delight that swept his system shook him to his foundations. True, the knife would not cut anything, but it was a "sure-enough" Barlow, and there was inconceivable grandeur in that - though where the Western boys ever got the idea that such a weapon could possibly be counterfeited to its injury, is an imposing mystery and will always remain so, perhaps.
- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer

[SteveC]

I thought of one last night that I think is iconic

The original Stanley Utility knife








I still call any utility knife a Stanley knife,  kind of like kleenex for tissues.

Spawned many copies and of course has been improved over time but they still make the original design.

[Nix]

 

[Nix]

I was thinking along similar lines, Steve.

How about the Sabatier Chef's knife?  Iconic kitchen knife......in the West....





On the other side of the globe, perhaps the Chinese chef's knife?

[Aloha]

 

I've always referred to these as utility knives however in other parts this would have referred to a utility fixed blade.  Just a quick glance the Stanley knife is what a lot of folks on both sides of the pond call it, at least in the trades.  Very interesting blade to add to the conversation.   

[Aloha]

@ Nix    great knives to add to the conversation.  The "cleaver" is very recognizable I'd say to any average knife person as is the "chefs" knife.  They are both near and dear to me as I made my living using both for a good number of years.   The "Chinese" cleaver to which many call it is actually as you call it and a very thin knife as opposed to cleavers which have always been meant to be hackers in the kitchen.  I have two such knifes in my kitchen and one is certainly more robust and meant to impact bone while the Chinese chefs knife is clearly made to be a veggie slicing machine.
 
Admittedly I do call my Chinese chefs knife "cleaver" but I know not to use it as such, tho it would do the job no problem.         

[Nix]

@ Nix    great knives to add to the conversation.  The "cleaver" is very recognizable I'd say to any average knife person as is the "chefs" knife.  They are both near and dear to me as I made my living using both for a good number of years.   The "Chinese" cleaver to which many call it is actually as you call it and a very thin knife as opposed to cleavers which have always been meant to be hackers in the kitchen.  I have two such knifes in my kitchen and one is certainly more robust and meant to impact bone while the Chinese chefs knife is clearly made to be a veggie slicing machine.
 
Admittedly I do call my Chinese chefs knife "cleaver" but I know not to use it as such, tho it would do the job no problem.       

"One of these things is not like the other...."





As you can see, my Chinese chef's knife (made in Japan) gets more use......

[Aloha]

One of both the knives mentioned by you certainly are in the kitchens of most if not all.  They are easily recognizable and even when calling the Chinese chefs knife a Chinese cleaver most if asked would retrieve what pictured.  As to the Western Chefs knifes, same goes.  I have two in my kitchen and both are easily retrieved by those who rarely if ever step foot in a kitchen. 

Coming back to iconic status for either.  I'd say yes and what more interesting is this notion of iconic blades.  As I think more on it, the term iconic is beginning to seem more and more . 

The list of blades would certainly include quite a selection.  "Categories" of blades might be a start.  I am rethinking the  guidelines as originally posted. 

It is the knife and for sake of discussion certain "dna" features standing the test of time ( relatively speaking ).  Its what we come to know as the knifes enduring features, not being able to necessarily determine maker that likely is what the average knife person sees as iconic.     

In the case of Spyderco as mentioned earlier, we see a hole in the blade, the leaf blade shape, FRN, and pocket clip.  If the knife is marked JOE KNIFE CO on the blade we'd call it Spyderco instinctively.  Spyderco might be iconic simply as a brand thats so widely recognized by the average knife person .  Like Victorinox, every little red pocket knife irrespective of maker is a Swiss Army Knife to average person.  Only one however IS Victorinox.  Most average knife people will call the little red knife a SAK, hence Victorniox icon as both maker and product.

[Nix]

I like where you are going with this......

[styx]

As an outsider looking into a foreign culture regarding the Bowie knife it seems more that the appeal lies in the romantic notion of an every man's utilitarian rough and tumble tool over the highly structured ways of society. At that time if you wanted a bladed weapon it was the sabre that was the dominant thing and knives/daggers were backups or things of convenience. If you wanted something to dress different game animals with again there were more specialized butchering and skinning knives. If you were looking for utensils, you had your spoons, knives and forks for that as well.
But a Bowie knife sounded less fancy, less specialized, more utilitarian, more common man, more like you and me. A knife that can cut the guy who had 3 aces hiding up his sleeve as well as field dress a boar or a jackrabbit and be used as a fork.
Plus it isn't hard to get those romantic notions today when we have a lot of resources to get information and many things can be tried out in a fairly safe environment. Just imagine how hard would it be to distinguish fact and fiction in those days if you had a strong marketing like CS has or a following like Busse

[Aloha]

Lots of folklore with the Bowie knife.  While I've read a few accounts what certain is James Bowie killed a man with a knife.  Scholars debate as to whether this was what is currently known as the Bowie knife.  The originator is also debated however Rezin Bowies seems to be the inventor and whether or not he actually made it is still debated.  Regardless IMO the Bowie knife as we know it is a knife that is widely known.  John Bowie certainly helped continue to tell tales of his bothers "exploits".  As we know, sometimes even those who witness something retell the occurrence with "creative license".     

[Aloha]

In further thinking about this, scary right?     The term used in both the thread subject line and subsequent attempts to discuss the topic may have began along the wrong path.  The word iconic for me is now to narrow to properly define or attempt to define the blades mentioned. 

I mentioned earlier in the thread a word used to define iconic, formulaic.  I thought this was a path worth looking into.  Take the Khukuri for example.  The Greek Kopi is said to be and by all accounts ( by many ) is the father of the Khukuri.  However the Khukuri stands on its own as a blade and symbol.  Its recognized by most any average knife person and most people in general.  This takes nothing away from the Kopi as a probable father of the Khukuri.  Sharing DNA between them is interesting tho as we've seen with many blades its the tweaks and modifications that tend to make the incarnations their very own.  Each blade certainly stands on their own and are part of a cultures singular identity.  The Kopi being Greek and Khukuri Nepalese. 

So, how shall we then define blades like these?  Iconic certainly for me is sufficient in the most simplistic way.  By definition the word is good for knives like the SAK and Buck 110.  I'd agree that most knives/blades mentioned fall into the category of iconic.  There are some knives/blades however that would tend to be more significant.  Again we can use the example Khukuri.   Yeah yeah nothing is so simple with knife people.  For simplicity sake iconic works.   For blades/knives the push past this definition I'd suggest Historic.  I think this moves closer to where this discussion has been going.  ThePeace broke down in his contribution an interesting subset classification.  I do believe there still could be a "catchall" definition and iconic is probably the simplest.   Iconic vs Historic is closer to that catchall tho even then I'm not certain.  There may not be one word available when describing the vast blades we see as Iconic since some will tend to fall into another category or many.   

The Khukuri is both Iconic and Historic.  The Roman Gladius is said to be derived from the short sword of the Celtiberians.  This Gadius is also both to many.  While the Celtiberians sword may only be historical in nature and neither iconic nor historic.

[Nix]

"Historic" seems darned nebulous. Seems like a semantic trap.

A rusted, twisted Viking blade is, by default, 'historic': it's old and it sheds some more light onto a given period of time. Does that make it historically significant?  Dunno.....  And, in so far as no modern knife stands in isolation, but depends on the design influences of older, previous designs,  any preceding knife must be considered 'historic'. Even a knife made today is 'historic' in the sense it will influence the knife made tomorrow (or the knives outlawed tomorrow) or become a footnote in the history of knives. Even if said knife is a flop and goes the way of the dodo. Where does history start? Ten seconds ago? Ten decades ago? Ten centuries ago?

[Nix]

And the kukri (khukuri) is still relevant today. It's still in use. While there are 'historic' examples of Kukris, it is still a very contemporary knife.

ADD: So, I'd say the Kopis is a 'historic weapon', but kukri is not.

[kirk13]

I've been following this thread with interest.

I'd argue(lightheartedly) that there's fewer than we think....

As a kid,I knew Kukris and commando(Sykes-Fairbourn) knives from the war comics I read(Commando,Warlord,Victor and such). I knew smokers knives. Swiss Army knives I've somehow always known. Bowie knives you always saw in the cowboy movies

The (to me) classic American lock knife,typified by the Buck 110 I'd never known until I started getting my hands on American gun magazines in South Africa.  Tactical folders I'd never really seen,or hadn't been aware of until arriving here. Likewise most classic patterns like Opinels,Mercators,stockmen etc...

I guess it depends on age and where you grew up

[Aloha]

The closer we get the farther we move away  .   There may very well be fewer than we'd like on the "list"  .  I'm certainly enjoying the responses and always enjoy any knife mentioned 

[Aloha]

And the kukri (khukuri) is still relevant today. It's still in use. While there are 'historic' examples of Kukris, it is still a very contemporary knife.

ADD: So, I'd say the Kopis is a 'historic weapon', but kukri is not.

All to which makes a list more involved  .   Heck even the Bowie on display at the Alamo looks nothing like the Bowie as we know it.  Check that, there are iterations that become what we know as the Bowie knife.  Once the tales took legs of their own makers made their "versions". 

Show content

https://youtu.be/cngZF1S-IKU

[RF52]

And the kukri (khukuri) is still relevant today. It's still in use. While there are 'historic' examples of Kukris, it is still a very contemporary knife.

ADD: So, I'd say the Kopis is a 'historic weapon', but kukri is not.

All to which makes a list more involved  .   Heck even the Bowie on display at the Alamo looks nothing like the Bowie as we know it.  Check that, there are iterations that become what we know as the Bowie knife.  Once the tales took legs of their own makers made their "versions". 

Show content

https://youtu.be/cngZF1S-IKU

Cool! I would go and see that

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

[ThePeacent]

  Take the Khukuri for example.  The Greek Kopi is said to be and by all accounts ( by many ) is the father of the Khukuri.  However the Khukuri stands on its own as a blade and symbol.  Its recognized by most any average knife person and most people in general.  This takes nothing away from the Kopi as a probable father of the Khukuri. 

  Iconic vs Historic is closer to that catchall tho even then I'm not certain.  There may not be one word available when describing the vast blades we see as Iconic since some will tend to fall into another category or many.   

The Khukuri is both Iconic and Historic.  The Roman Gladius is said to be derived from the short sword of the Celtiberians.  This Gadius is also both to many.  While the Celtiberians sword may only be historical in nature and neither iconic nor historic.

let's not forget that many historians believe that the Kukri might have also had its roots in the Iberian Falcata, and also that the Kopis might have been an evolution of the Egyptian "Kopesh", adopting both the name and the curved, forward-weight blades with strongly contoured grip and hand protection 

And, the Gladius might be "the" Roman weapon that comes to mind first, but what about the Pugio, the Pilum or the Spatha? They might not be as "iconic" but they sure were relevant and important to them, and as essential as the Gladius in the Roman Empire's success 

[Nix]

let's not forget that many historians believe that the Kukri might have also had its roots in the Iberian Falcata, and also that the Kopis might have been an evolution of the Egyptian "Kopesh", adopting both the name and the curved, forward-weight blades with strongly contoured grip and hand protection 

And, the Gladius might be "the" Roman weapon that comes to mind first, but what about the Pugio, the Pilum or the Spatha? They might not be as "iconic" but they sure were relevant and important to them, and as essential as the Gladius in the Roman Empire's success 

Good points, El P.

Your comments go to emphasize what I was trying to say earlier--bladed tools and weapons are all part of a spectrum of design and technology. Each has evolved in it's own technological time period to meet the needs of the day. They've changed as technology and tasks have changed, but rely on earlier successes and failures. The history of the SAK is a perfect example: the Soldier of 1891 does not resemble the more iconic red Spartan of today.

I think that' why it is hard for me to see any one knife/sword/machete as being more 'historic' than another. Just as T.Rex is historic but no longer a viable animal for the current circumstances.

The term 'iconic' seems to be a more useful descriptor, in so far as some knives and swords seem to stand out as being particularly recognizable or emblematic of their era or uses. As you point out, the Gladius is the weapon that comes to mind, it's Iconic, whereas the Spatha seems less Iconic, though still quite important or relevant from a historical perspective. 

[Nix]

Swords are starting to creep into the discussion. Aloha, do you want to limit this to knives? Or add all edged tools & weapons?

Swords will really open things up, but I think we were trying to develop a list of 'Iconic Knives'? 

Do we even have a list  started yet?   

What the heck is going on here!? 

[Aloha]

I like how this has evolved.  Swords, knives, and everything else that has entered the discussion is wonderful.  Getting back to the theme I will take a step back from over thinking.  Certainly a discussion of iconic swords and knives are double the fun   

Iconic.  In the loosest definition for the average knife person.  I'd say easily and readily recognizable.  A person new to knives or a non knife person might very well be familiar with certain knives and not know their names.  Perhaps those who are new to knives will easily recognize the SAK however not recognize the Opinel.  The average knife person would have done some looking at models and thus be familiar with the Opinel if only by pictures.   

Iconic knife.  There is no prerequisite to own the knife.  You do not need to know its origins or history.  You do not need to know particular makers.  Examples are the Bowie knife and Barlow.     

An average knife person might be described as someone who owns a knife or knives.  Someone who has looked at knives online or locally.  A person who carries a knife and uses a knife other than in the kitchen.  When talking about swords however this very well not apply.  I'd say I am an average knife person yet I dont own a sword or machete.  I am familiar with various swords and cutting tools like the machete and axes. 

           

[pfrsantos]

Here's a few more: Palaçoulo Corta-e-Pica, Caneças (both portuguese) and Pattada (italian).

[Aloha]

Iconic knife in some situations will be all encompassing.  Example, Q-Tip and Kleenex, both are used by a lot of folks to describe a product.  The names however are Brands of products, tissue and cotton swabs/buds respectively.   This might be US only  ?   If I were to ask for a Q Tip or Kleenex I'd be handed the product without regard to the Brand I was actually asking for ( again might be US only ).  If I asked for a Coke and only Pepsi was available I'd be asked if Pepsi was ok.  I mention this because for many these two are very different for most if not all.     

Swiss Army Knife I think is similar to what I am trying to work out in my head.  A CAK would be called Swiss Army Knife by many non knife people unfortunately.  I'd hope the average knife person knows the difference  .  I think so.  That being said, does the average knife person know the different companies that produced Swiss Army Knives?  Wenger and Victorinox specifically?  Is this important?  If we are to include a SAK is it important to name the specific knife model and/or company that produced it?  My thought is, no.  If I say Swiss Army Knife to the average knife person they will instinctively know the knife and envision it ( whatever model and company V or W).     

  We discussed Sypderco.  We mentioned certain models and both the Dellica and Endura were brought up.   What's interesting is I can now identify both however I cannot identify other offerings as easily.  Does this make both the Endura and Delica Iconic?  Probably not as much as the more easily recognizable distinguishing factors of the Brand rather than the specifics of either the Delica or Endura.  The hole in the blade and Spyder logo particularly.   The pocket clip could be removed and the Brand would still be recognizable.  FRN handles are not as important as the hole and Spyder IMO.  I'd even go as far as saying the blade shape is important to easily recognize the knife and Brand.  Spyderco has some recognizable knives without question but in some ways they are more easily recognizable for features on their knives to the average knife person.  Many knife people get duped by these features alone.  In the case of Spyderco has the Brand become iconic or are we to determine a specific model?

Buck knives is a bit opposite.  The Buck 110 is the iconic knife of the Brand.  They are interchangeable in my mind for the average knife person.  I don't think much more needs to be said  . 

On the other end would be the Bowie knife.  While iconic model/pattern there is no need to determine maker/brand.  I'd think similarly with Barlow. 

We might want to keep it to knives only however in the example I've given some knives are more closely attached to Brands rather than models. 

Lastly,  even my suggestion of the Opinel is a Brand and not a model.  If we are to include it which model? 

I suggest eponymous knives should be included.  Bowie, Barlow, Opinel, and others.     

   
       

[Aloha]

Wonderful knives pfrsantos 

[pfrsantos]

Wonderful knives pfrsantos 

Thanks, I think so, too.

 

[SteveC]

Wonderful knives pfrsantos