Leatherman Free Series

[gadgetman7]

I’ve posted a lot of negatives but I should clarify something. While I don’t like the current configuration, this could absolutely best the Wave/Charge with just a few changes. P2/P4 still has the best lock and the design has all of the elements to be great. I hope there’s a version 2 that addresses our complaints.


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[Happy Gilmore]

Seriously, I love Leatherman and this tool is incredibly novel. However, if you take out deployement the tools themselves are significantly behind something like the Spirit. Because of this they should have marketed it a long side of the hard core tools as an EDC compliment, NOT a replacement...because it isn't. That's all I am saying.
Cheers

[AimlessWanderer]

I’ve posted a lot of negatives but I should clarify something. While I don’t like the current configuration, this could absolutely best the Wave/Charge with just a few changes. P2/P4 still has the best lock and the design has all of the elements to be great. I hope there’s a version 2 that addresses our complaints.


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I've not exactly been positive myself but I too like the looks of that locking mechanism. I think they could prevent the accidental tool deployment with it too, while still keeping the tool one hand opening, with a bit of tweaking of the tool tangs. That would be a big step towards improving the safety. (You'd have to release the locks to deploy the tools, but it would be no difficult that one hand closing, which nobody seems to have an issue with)

The tapered drivers are a noob error that should never have happened, but they keep repeating that for some reason (I think the Rebar was the first tool they did it on). Reducing handle splay was another improvement they made here, but it sounds like they ruined it with pokey bits. I'm surprised it took them so long to bring the handles nearer. I'm not holding out much hope of them stopping impeding the main gripping area either. That's another flawed (in my opinion) design element that they keep repeating. I really cannot understand why they do that. There seems to be no benefit to it whatsoever.

They did get some stuff right on this tool, there's just too much that's badly wrong (including the price) for me to get any benefit from the design improvements though. 

[PiterM]

I try to like P series. For me the biggest problem here in EU is price... for the price of P4 I could get here BOTH  Surge and Super Tool 300, both with premium sheaths. In the same shop (local distributor). Not kidding.

Also I can tell you...  metal file and magnets on the same tool is a terrible idea in a long run

[ReamerPunch]

for the price of P4 I could get here BOTH  Surge and Super Tool 300, both with premium sheaths.

 

[PiterM]

And I'm not kidding... here's a screen. You can purchase: Super Tool 300, Surge and extra bit kit for Surge (or premium sheaths for both) and in total same price as P4.

So as much as I like Leathermans (got Surge, Wave, Skeletool CX, Minitool, PST, Micra) I simply don't understand P4 pricing pattern here:

[SirVicaLot]

Oh wow... At the current rate the P4 would be around $220 for you. 

[Happy Gilmore]

And I'm not kidding... here's a screen. You can purchase: Super Tool 300, Surge and extra bit kit for Surge (or premium sheaths for both) and in total same price as P4.

So as much as I like Leathermans (got Surge, Wave, Skeletool CX, Minitool, PST, Micra) I simply don't understand P4 pricing pattern here:

(Image removed from quote.)

Holy moly!

Honestly if we are just talking tools, I'd pick the surge every single time at those prices. I really love that Leatherman is pushing the boundaries, and there is major potential here..but the Free is not like the PST in its time. The frame is solid, the mechanism is great, the ergo needs a slight modification, and Some of the internal tools could be upgraded..but its an exciting time for Leatherman and multitools. After finding the Leap which is one of the newer showings, I have a lot of hope for what they can provide.

Especially with the other projects happening here on MT.org. Two things need to happen for me to invest...price drop (because I will have to spend a lot more to mod it properly), and a true Diamond/Cross cut file over the serrated blade.

Cheers,
H.G.

[Dutch_Tooler]

[Wspeed]

Nice 

[gerleatherberman]

Nice 

+1 

[Dutch_Tooler]

  thanks guys

[JonesE]

Quick question? Is any one else looking forward to the release of the Free “T” series? I am curious to see how these are going to be received.

JonesE

[gerleatherberman]

Quick question? Is any one else looking forward to the release of the Free “T” series? I am curious to see how these are going to be received.

JonesE

I'm excited, but I think the excitement for the rest of the Free line has been dampened a lot from the high amount of criticism of the P2/P4's price and not being like the Wave.
Hopefully that'll die down a bit for the T and K series.
Personally, I think the P4 is the best fidget factor multitool out there. LM really smurfed up by comparing it to the Wave, which is a pure user tool. I still play with the P4 nearly everyday and keep it by the computer monitor. But, that said, my Charge has been going to work with me.
The prices of the T and K look pretty competitive as it stands and I think those are going to be more popular since they aren't so expensive.

[PiterM]

Just to backup my observations..... I realised how well the Super Tool 300 is positioned price-wise. So... just got one! Yeah... Free series needs to wait a bit these days

[Wpgwave]

I'm excited, but I think the excitement for the rest of the Free line has been dampened a lot from the high amount of criticism of the P2/P4's price and not being like the Wave.
Hopefully that'll die down a bit for the T and K series.
Personally, I think the P4 is the best fidget factor multitool out there. LM really smurfed up by comparing it to the Wave, which is a pure user tool. I still play with the P4 nearly everyday and keep it by the computer monitor. But, that said, my Charge has been going to work with me.
The prices of the T and K look pretty competitive as it stands and I think those are going to be more popular since they aren't so expensive.

If Leatherman would have released this under different brand name, I doubt there would be so much hate.



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[gerleatherberman]

If Leatherman would have released this under different brand name, I doubt there would be so much hate.
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There is that as well indeed, though that assertion will be vehemently denied.

I wouldn't want to brand everyone who has criticized the P2/P4 as haters, as most have had reasonable concerns. However, the over-zealous nature of a few concerns made me realize that there is a deep seeded issue on MT.o with regards to Leatherman. Seems a vibe of genuine or inadvertent want to paint modern-Leathermans as overpriced/lower-quality, while painting Victorinox as flawless(I don't generally see the issue with other big brands).
Oh well, it ain't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. 

[AndyTiedye]

Leatherman, If you're listening,

SURGE FREE TTI

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[SirVicaLot]

If Leatherman would have released this under different brand name, I doubt there would be so much hate.



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I don‘t think the issue is the name. Yet the name is kind of ironic, don‘t you think?

[gerleatherberman]

I don‘t think the issue is the name. Yet the name is kind of ironic, don‘t you think?

I think he means the Leatherman brand. Like if Vic, Gerber or SOG would have produced the Free P2/P4, there wouldn't be as many bookoodles of posts shining a negative light on the tools, particularly from some who haven't handled one.

That was how I understood it anyway.

[Happy Gilmore]

There is that as well indeed, though that assertion will be vehemently denied.

I wouldn't want to brand everyone who has criticized the P2/P4 as haters, as most have had reasonable concerns. However, the over-zealous nature of a few concerns made me realize that there is a deep seeded issue on MT.o with regards to Leatherman. Seems a vibe of genuine or inadvertent want to paint modern-Leathermans as overpriced/lower-quality, while painting Victorinox as flawless(I don't generally see the issue with other big brands).
Oh well, it ain't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. 

From what people have said, the tools are definitly not low quality. However, the actual design of the internal tools leaves me  Leatherman has a ton of experience with their other tools already. The Philips and Flat drivers seem excellent, the scissors seem excellent, as do the other longer implements. My only grip is are thinner implements. I'd feel personally much more confident if they had fewer, more robust tools. I have come to the conclusion that my favorite MTs have been those that are specialized like the Crunch/Signal/Raptor etc. When it comes to doing the most possible with the strongest tools...how do you compete with the Surge/ST300/SwissTool/Spirit? It is true that the P4 has a ton of functions technically, but even for a MT they are massively compromised tools.

Even with the thinner tools I don't think $140MSRP is too expensive at all. Not for a %100 USA made tool of this quality. If I could get a diamond/Cross cut file instead of the serrated blade and the new 4mm bit driver being designed in the other thread I would be super excited. For now though I'll hold off because of how happy I am with my Wave/Rebar Hybrid, Surge, Spirit, and Signal. Especially since I've modified the spirit and Rave to be nearly completely OH operational.

I have a very very unusual viewpoint. What I want to ask those who have the P series is would you recommend it to someone who has no multi-tools at all?

I wonder if they cool factor alone is the gateway drug Leatherman is counting on.

Cheers,
H.G.

[gerleatherberman]

Good points, Happy Gilmore!

Answering the recommendation question:
I always recommend a LM Rebar or Gerber MP600. Solid, US made, excellent strength, reliable, and low maintenance. And just $30(for Gerber)/$50(for Rebar) on sale or $20-$30(Gerber)/$30-$40(LM) used.

[Happy Gilmore]

Good points, Happy Gilmore!

Answering the recommendation question:
I always recommend a LM Rebar or Gerber MP600. Solid, US made, excellent strength, reliable, and low maintenance. And just $30(for Gerber)/$50(for Rebar) on sale or $20-$30(Gerber)/$30-$40(LM) used.

That brings up really good point. As amazing as the Free is...is $140 justifiable for entry level? Probably not. I feel like the crowd they are really looking to target are the same individuals going to knife shows and spending $350 on a single folding knife.

[gerleatherberman]

That brings up really good point. As amazing as the Free is...is $140 justifiable for entry level? Probably not. I feel like the crowd they are really looking to target are the same individuals going to knife shows and spending $350 on a single folding knife.

Indeed. From the beginning, that has been what I felt. It is worth $140 to me, because I am a hardcore multitool enthusiast and really enjoy fidget/fiddle factor. I have almost every practical multitool available, but find stuff like the Free P2/P4, SwissTools, SOG PowerAccess, and such to be a lot of fun to play with and use; even though they aren't practical for my work.

[gadgetman7]

If they’re going after the high end knife crowd, yes I’m one, I think they blew it with the blade steel and exclusion of the bit driver. If you look at the reviews by the most popular/watched knife enthusiasts they’re mostly split but leaning towards the negative.

There are a lot of comments about the lack of a bit driver and the multiple flat head drivers as well as the “inexplicable” choice of an inferior steel. Most of these folks prefer the Wave or Charge.


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[gerleatherberman]

Edit: rant removed

[AimlessWanderer]

If Leatherman would have released this under different brand name, I doubt there would be so much hate.

I'm not a hater, as I often get labelled, but I am certainly a sceptic of the brand. However, that's only through trying stuff and being repeatedly dissatisfied with it. While I have tried several newer tools, and handled several others, the older LM designs (and build quality) suit my preferences better.

I think all my main concerns have already been justified from buyer feedback, with the exception of the lugs on the plier head that take all the force. I didn't like the looks of that type design when I had my Rangergrip 90, but never used it hard enough to discover its limits. I didn't like that tool (I did try, but it wasn't happening, mainly due to the fat arsed scales which killed the handling) and sold it on, but the Traveller is still my favourite pocket carry Swiss knife. I've sold on and criticised plenty of Wengers, Victorinox, SOGs, Gerbers, CRKTs and several others too, but its only the LM comments that tends to get folk chasing me with pitchforks 

While it's only natural that we do build up a bias (positively or negatively) from our previous experiences with a brand, I do try to judge tools on their own individual strengths and weaknesses. I have said several positive things about the tool through the course of this thread, but I guess my concerns and criticisms of this tool tend to be more prominent for some readers.

[Wpgwave]

I think he means the Leatherman brand. Like if Vic, Gerber or SOG would have produced the Free P2/P4, there wouldn't be as many bookoodles of posts shining a negative light on the tools, particularly from some who haven't handled one.

That was how I understood it anyway.

This.

If leatherman created a new brand name like
“Patriot Multi-Tool” “Freedom P2/P4”, with no mention of leatherman , I honestly think the criticism would have been far more supportive. It is unlike anything that has been made in the last 30 years. It’s a good tool, it is innovative and for the first batch, I think they did a great job.

Nothing is perfect, I have many issues with my Charge+, but I really like the overall feel of the P2.


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[gerleatherberman]

 

Hey, we like the P series, and no matter how long the same exact criticisms stay on repeat like a broken record, it doesn't change the fact that the P2 and P4 are really good tools for certain markets.

[Top-Gear-24]

I'm not a hater, as I often get labelled, but I am certainly a sceptic of the brand. However, that's only through trying stuff and being repeatedly dissatisfied with it. While I have tried several newer tools, and handled several others, the older LM designs (and build quality) suit my preferences better.

I think all my main concerns have already been justified from buyer feedback, with the exception of the lugs on the plier head that take all the force. I didn't like the looks of that type design when I had my Rangergrip 90, but never used it hard enough to discover its limits. I didn't like that tool (I did try, but it wasn't happening, mainly due to the fat arsed scales which killed the handling) and sold it on, but the Traveller is still my favourite pocket carry Swiss knife. I've sold on and criticised plenty of Wengers, Victorinox, SOGs, Gerbers, CRKTs and several others too, but its only the LM comments that tends to get folk chasing me with pitchforks

While it's only natural that we do build up a bias (positively or negatively) from our previous experiences with a brand, I do try to judge tools on their own individual strengths and weaknesses. I have said several positive things about the tool through the course of this thread, but I guess my concerns and criticisms of this tool tend to be more prominent for some readers.

 

I believe one of the main issues here is the difference in price between the U.S. and elsewhere.  I know this might not (totally) be the fault of Leatherman alone but that means nothing to people buying Leatherman tools over here.  And that might be why some Americans have a hard time understanding where some of the comments from Leatherman fans around the world come from.

For example, let's say that the Free P4 would cost $99.95 in the U.S., while the Spirit would cost $199.95 over there, wouldn't you guys say something about the insane difference in price ?  Wouldn't multitool enthusiasts in the U.S. expect the Spirit to blow the Free P4 away, considering the huge price difference ?  And would you guys like it if expressing your feelings/concerns about this would only end up with you being labeled as "Victorinox Hater" (in case of this example), even after you've paid at least double the price for each Victorinox Tool in your collection (again, in this example) ... ? I can only speak for myself, but for me, that hurts, plain and simple ...

By the way, that example is exactly how it is over here, my P4 cost me 199,95€, while I can easily find a brand new Spirit for 99,95€.

But I feel like I keep repeating myself here, trying to explain my point of view, maybe I should just throw in the towel on this subject  .

Here's where I stand on the P4, I've been carrying my P4 during my free time (no pun intended ) for several weeks now and it hasn't let me down yet, but in all honesty I have to admit that I haven't come across anything really challenging for it either.  I feel the P4 is a bit like Harvey Two-Face in the Batman series, one side looks great (the one with the Phillips and the big flat driver/pry bar) while the other ... well, not so much  .

But like I said, it hasn't let me down so far, and I do like the looks/feel and fiddle factor of it.  But for some reason I still take my Wave + with me on my belt when I go to work .

P.S.: I don't think the name Free has anything to do with all of this, people here are not that shallow.