I like 1095 just like the next knife person. I have a few wonderful 1095 knives that are quite a joy to use. Heat treat aside, is anyone else thinking some prices are just not reasonable, $150 upwards .
1095 is wonderful. A custom will cost and would be well worth it to whomever order one. I was mostly being vague for curiosity sake. A 1095 production fixed blade at 150 and above in the 5 inch blade size used for say camping
Who's charging a premium for 1095 steel? I have some folders made with 1095 that some might consider expensive. It is the craftsmanship and materials that make them expensive not the 1095 steel.
Fair point, Sak-six-oh.(Image removed from quote.)This feels more like a knife that should be in the US $60-$80 price range. Sure, it has some historical importance and an iconic relevance, but it is basically a modified butcher's knife with couple of scales. Back in the day, this knife would have cost an astonishing $5. But that was then. I don't think my pockets are deep enough to hand over $120 for a fairly crude and unrefined knife (As said by a big Kephart fan.).
One examle:I would think the new BK62 is overpriced for thin stock and a couple of wood scales. One seller says msrp of $182 selling for $136.Yes very slightly tapered tang but currently at the sale price that would be a $190 AUD knife without shipping.
Quote from: Nix on February 09, 2019, 01:38:41 AMFair point, Sak-six-oh.(Image removed from quote.)This feels more like a knife that should be in the US $60-$80 price range. Sure, it has some historical importance and an iconic relevance, but it is basically a modified butcher's knife with couple of scales. Back in the day, this knife would have cost an astonishing $5. But that was then. I don't think my pockets are deep enough to hand over $120 for a fairly crude and unrefined knife (As said by a big Kephart fan.).I agree totally
There's a guy with a Youtube channel doing some testing that will change your mind completely.....I love 1095, it's a steel that almost defines steel, just iron and carbon.Simple fact is we're mostly talking about production knives, and the information emerging seems to point out that many of these super steels we're paying through the nose for are not heat treated to maximize that potential performance.Thus, properly heat treated, 1095 could be on the heels of these super steels.
I love 1095, it's a steel that almost defines steel, just iron and carbon.
Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on February 11, 2019, 09:07:08 AMThere's a guy with a Youtube channel doing some testing that will change your mind completely.....I love 1095, it's a steel that almost defines steel, just iron and carbon.Simple fact is we're mostly talking about production knives, and the information emerging seems to point out that many of these super steels we're paying through the nose for are not heat treated to maximize that potential performance.Thus, properly heat treated, 1095 could be on the heels of these super steels.To that I say Smurf Poop. Sounds like a man with an agenda not a man looking for facts.Mostly I would not pay any attention to some guy on you tube.There's the guy who does a lot of testing but admits he's not the best sharpener. That alone makes his results meaningless. There's the guy that can't seem to stay sober thru a 20 min. video.There's the guy that thinks he has to chop in all his tests. Good chopping and good edge retention are two entirely different things. A lot of manufactures run a steel soft by design GEC's 1095 is - 57-59 HRC., Kabar Mark 1 – is 56-58 HRC. Very different knives designed with very different uses in mind. The old saying goes “there is no bad steel just the wrong steel for the job”. To that I would add there is also a wrong steel for the user. If you're happy sharpening with a natural stone CPM S90V is a bad steel choice. If you want the better edge retention, 1085CV aka CV is bad steel choice.As far as heat treat goes “you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear”. Case heat treats their 420HC to 54-56 HRC, Buck heat treats their 420HC to 58 HRC. Neither can hold an edge as well as GEC's 1095 at 57-59 HRC. The difference in Case 420HC and Buck 420HC might be 30%.Heat treat makes a difference but it can not work miracles on steel. If two blades have the same profile and good heat treat, blade alloy wins the edge retention game. Every time. Both heat treat and geometry being optimal, the concept that 1095 edge retention can compete with some of the so called super steels is just wrong. Steel is a compromise at best. I know I can cut 120 feet of cardboard with a 1095 GEC, 220 feet with Queens D2 and easily cut 500 plus feet with S90V. What I gain in edge retention with S90V, I loose in toughness. If for some reason I would want to chop with a S90V blade, it's to brittle and will chip or break. 1095 is much better suited to such tasks. If I want a stainless knife with most of the qualitys of 1095, I'll pick A2.1095 is a good steel and has stood the test of time it is not a cheap steel. 1095 is an inexpensive steel, it's easy to manufacture and easy to work with.For those reasons alone I would not pay a premium for it.
There's the guy that can't seem to stay sober thru a 20 min. video.
I don't think A2 is a stainless steel. I do like A2, and have a couple knives made with it. But it's just a tool steel. Seems like it would be nice to work with, since it is an air-hardening steel.
Quote from: Dean51 on February 11, 2019, 04:12:59 PMThere's the guy that can't seem to stay sober thru a 20 min. video.I suspect we're talking about this guy. Personally, as a part-time knife maker, I really appreciate his contribution to the knowledge base. Though it doesn't bother me, but I do wish he could get out his message without getting a bug up the smurf of people like you.The point I'm trying to make is you need to differentiate between custom and production knives. Steve has joked that Spyderco will send a hitman after him, and as a sprintrun owner I'm not exactly happy to find out they're not getting the most all the steel they use.Knowing that 12C27 with a good heat treat can play with the big boys makes me so happy, because I just finished two knives and I have a whole sheet of 14C28n left, and a digital kiln to get the most out of it.So, is 3V a potentially better steel than 1095?Yes.Are you sure that 3V you are paying a premium for is heat treated to maximize it's capabilities?If not, you could do just as well, or better with 1095.Go check how cheap knife steel is, it's all about labour, material costs come into the picture once you start using Damasteel, even here in deepest darkest africa I can get M390 for the same price as 14C28n, which is about double the price of same size stock D2 or N690
I saw a AUS-8 vs D2 test and according to the tester D2's edge retention wasn't much better than AUS-8. That made me question his results, so I did my own test. I used two Rat 2's one D2 and one AUS-8. Both sharpened on a KME with at 17° and a 20° micro bevel. I taped the blade and only used 1.5” of the blade. Straight push cuts thru new cardboard onto a mouse pad to insure no extra blade damage.The AUS-8 would no longer cleanly cut paper at 120 feet. The D2 went 220 Feet before it would no longer cleanly cut paper. That's almost double and showed me the testers method was severely flawed.
Quote from: Dean51 on February 12, 2019, 04:22:51 PMI saw a AUS-8 vs D2 test and according to the tester D2's edge retention wasn't much better than AUS-8. That made me question his results, so I did my own test. I used two Rat 2's one D2 and one AUS-8. Both sharpened on a KME with at 17° and a 20° micro bevel. I taped the blade and only used 1.5” of the blade. Straight push cuts thru new cardboard onto a mouse pad to insure no extra blade damage.The AUS-8 would no longer cleanly cut paper at 120 feet. The D2 went 220 Feet before it would no longer cleanly cut paper. That's almost double and showed me the testers method was severely flawed.My own experience leads me to agree with your conclusions, Dean. However, your testing doesn't really take into account how the Rat's were heat-treated either. Perhaps ESEE did a better job with the D2 heat-treat, than they did with with AUS-8? One can start chasing his or her own tail with these sorts of things. I've found that some steels, especially well established steels like 1095 and 154CM, work well for many manufacturers. In general I've had good luck with S3V blades, too. I think it pays to stick with good makers who take their heat treats seriously. I can understand a maker not wanting to reveal his or her heat treat process, especially if that maker feels they have optimized the treatment for a particular knife & steel. Fehrman used to do some amazing things with S3V. We are lucky that in this day and age, a maker's reputation and ability becomes well known, fairly quickly. LT Wright has a great reputation for a well made knife. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up an S3V knife from him. Although, I find 154CM to be such a great all-around steel, I think that would be an excellent choice, too.
Heat treat can not make AUS8 perform way out of it's class. It will never be the equal to D2 or S90V. for that to happen the heat treat would have to be worse than bad.
Quote from: Dean51 on February 12, 2019, 05:41:50 PMHeat treat can not make AUS8 perform way out of it's class. It will never be the equal to D2 or S90V. for that to happen the heat treat would have to be worse than bad. As an aside, I recently got my first knife in S90V, a Spydie Manix 2. So far I like it, but I haven't used it much. I'll be interest to see how it is to sharpen....once it needs it. I like sharpening. One of the reasons I don't get hung up on a particular steel (aside from a bit of a steel-crush on 154CM... ) is that I enjoy the sharpening process and keeping a knife sharp. 1095 (with a good heat treat, yes) sharpens easily and well. It takes a great edge. And that makes it fun to work with and use. Conversely, steels like Maxamet seem almost ridiculous to work with. Which steel would I rather own/use? Probably a nice 1095 blade. It's something I know I can keep razor sharp. I don't go cutting tough materials for hours on end. I don't need a knife that can whittle a tree into a toothpick. I'll be home sharpening before that happens. So a tough steel that takes a great edge, but doesn't have the ultimate wear-resistance, is actually more of a 'premium steel' for me. I'm sure that one day a Maxamet blade will find it's way into my pocket, but if all I ever use from now until the big sleep is a 1095 knife, I think I'd still be a happy man.