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How to determine value...it's difficult 647

No Life Club Posts: 4,393
How to determine value...it's difficult
« on: February 15, 2019, 06:54:20 PM »
I have overpaid and underpaid for SAKs.....at least I think I have.  :think:

It's easier to determine value on the current offerings from Victorinox.
For example, if I buy a SwissChamp for $17-$25 dollars I feel as though I underpaid, especially if it is mint-in-box.

It's those discontinued models that I find it hard to determine the value of them.  Let's take the Scientist for an example.  I'm not sure what they're worth.  :dunno:  Looking at ended auctions can be helpful, but then sometimes there is a bidding war and the value gets inflated.

I wish there was a value guide that gets updated periodically that shows the value of SAKs like they have in the coin community.

Going back to the Scientist example, I would say a mint-in-box version could be worth $175-250.   Or do you think that's high?

Has anyone ever attempted a SAK value guide?
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,790
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 07:40:37 PM »
I agree it is very hard to make a determination on price for those discontinued models.  Keeping a spread sheet noting bidding wars as well as other determining factors is probably the "best" way to keep a handle on price.  There is also the "how bad do I want this" price we all are willing to pay  ;).  I am not familiar enough with SAK pricing to say but I also use the recently sold on flea bay to get an idea of price.   

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 08:03:58 PM »
There is also the "how bad do I want this" price we all are willing to pay  ;).   
I've known that price a couple of times. :facepalm:
Thank you for your thoughts, Aloha!  :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:06:27 PM by FolderBeholder »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,013 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 08:26:04 PM »
My way of valuing things, is imagine the pile of money next to the item. So if a NIB Scientist was sat next to £100, which would I walk away with? I'd take the cash. Others might not. The value is the point at which you'd leave the cash and grab the item. This also allows for my opinion on something's worth fluctuating over time, depending on what my priorities are. Now the value that I put on something, might not be reflected in the market, which probably accounts for why there are some things I never bought, but it also stops me feeling like I've overpaid for things.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,019
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 08:32:35 PM »
Once out of production it's pretty subjective what its value is.  Whatever someone is willing to part with.

- Steve
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 08:41:38 PM »
The value is the point at which you'd leave the cash and grab the item.
That is an interesting way to look at it that I never considered, thank you.  :tu:

Once out of production it's pretty subjective what its value is.  Whatever someone is willing to part with.
:iagree: Yes, I have seen this with my own bidding and what others were willing to pay.  :cheers:
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,790
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 09:33:16 PM »
@ AM, very succinct way to look at value  :tu:.  I tend to leave with the cash usually verse the item since my threshold on "value" of items tends to be low.

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,013 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 09:58:44 PM »

That is an interesting way to look at it that I never considered, thank you.  :tu:


@ AM, very succinct way to look at value  :tu:.  I tend to leave with the cash usually verse the item since my threshold on "value" of items tends to be low.

Thanks, you two :) I find it a safer way to keep perspective on things, particularly with online purchasing, where you aren't physically taking beer vouchers out and handing them over. If you wouldn't feel comfortable handing over that clump of notes for the item in real life, this gives you that same pause to consider before committing. It's very easy online, to feel disconnected with the cash you are parting with, and this makes it real again.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 739
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 09:07:16 AM »
I have overpaid and underpaid for SAKs.....at least I think I have.  :think:

It's easier to determine value on the current offerings from Victorinox.
For example, if I buy a SwissChamp for $17-$25 dollars I feel as though I underpaid, especially if it is mint-in-box.
What's crazy for current offerings, is how close some people are willing to bid to new prices.  For example, I saw *something* mint that went for $66 shipped when it's available right now new for $69.9X shipped.


It's those discontinued models that I find it hard to determine the value of them.  Let's take the Scientist for an example.  I'm not sure what they're worth.  :dunno:  Looking at ended auctions can be helpful, but then sometimes there is a bidding war and the value gets inflated.

I wish there was a value guide that gets updated periodically that shows the value of SAKs like they have in the coin community.

Going back to the Scientist example, I would say a mint-in-box version could be worth $175-250.   Or do you think that's high?
I think that's about right, if you can see the correct labelling on the box.  The Scientist is one of those models that I would only really want *with* the box.  One with good use and patina might be okay...but only desirable  to me with the box. Primarily, because I mod and restore knives I see a mod or clone as 'easy' to do if I ever wanted. And the required donors are relatively inexpensive in mint or MIB condition. The only thing that I *couldn't* reproduce is an original labelled box.  To me, without the box, a mint Scientist is only worth the donor for the Combo tool and the donor Explorer for the rest of the parts maybe new scales too, if it's a SwissBianco translucent scale version.

Another problem with determining prices of rare items is inherent value in the specific rare tools/parts. For example, in a Super Timer there are 3 rare parts: the watch, the watch scale and the liner that fits the watch scale. To me, all the value is in those three parts and their factory installation over a mint SwissChamp. During the time that replacement parts are still available from the factory, knife prices are somewhat capped by the part prices.  That goes out the window once replacement part supplies dry up. Prices could get very unstable after that.


Has anyone ever attempted a SAK value guide?

I've seen guides like that for many collectables...but it would be hard to publish for SAKs with so many variants and spot pricing for rare items. We all know that can get crazy.  I wouldn't want to attempt publishing something like that. (not that I'd be qualified to do it for most varieties anyway)

Another issue is that condition for anything less than mint is very subjective.  I have a good idea what I can clean and what will polish out to be acceptable to my standards when completed. My tolerance for light scratches is pretty high. I'm fairly sure that's not the case with many other collectors.
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2019, 04:03:47 PM »
Thank you for your insights kamakiri, I enjoyed reading them.  :cheers:
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,790
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2019, 04:05:31 PM »
Thank you for your insights kamakiri, I enjoyed reading them.  :cheers:

 :iagree:

Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,209 Ride the Music
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2019, 11:59:32 PM »
Sometimes the bidding on fleabay doesn't make any sense at all.
Like the time I bought a Battle of St Jakob for $20 ,
while a plain Passenger was being bid up to almost $100 (didn't bid on that one).

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


R
Full Member Posts: 194
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2019, 03:29:23 AM »
My way of valuing things, is imagine the pile of money next to the item. So if a NIB Scientist was sat next to £100, which would I walk away with? I'd take the cash. Others might not. The value is the point at which you'd leave the cash and grab the item. This also allows for my opinion on something's worth fluctuating over time, depending on what my priorities are. Now the value that I put on something, might not be reflected in the market, which probably accounts for why there are some things I never bought, but it also stops me feeling like I've overpaid for things.

That’s a very interesting perspective. I like it.
No Life Club Posts: 1,209 Ride the Music
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2019, 03:47:24 AM »


My way of valuing things, is imagine the pile of money next to the item. So if a NIB Scientist was sat next to £100, which would I walk away with? I'd take the cash.

The SAK is more likely to increase in value than the stack of £, unless they bin Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


R
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,013 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2019, 04:20:29 AM »


My way of valuing things, is imagine the pile of money next to the item. So if a NIB Scientist was sat next to £100, which would I walk away with? I'd take the cash.

The SAK is more likely to increase in value than the stack of £, unless they bin Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I don't make the decision based on what the item might be worth to someone else, either now, or in the future. The decision is based on what it is worth to me.

Lets not bring politics into this.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Hero Member Posts: 739
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 06:39:48 AM »
Thank you for your insights kamakiri, I enjoyed reading them.  :cheers:

 :iagree:

 :cheers: Thanks to you both!  I have a problem with overthinking things and analysis paralysis.  :think:

Just easier to hit Buy-it-Now and ponder 'what have I done?' later.  :D

Hero Member Posts: 739
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2019, 04:35:05 AM »
I didn't buy this, but WOW. Bid at $282 for a Fisherman labelled 'Fieldmaster'...not sure what label is on the box, but there's a catalog listing for $14.70 from the '60s...for a Craftsman.



I gotta wonder what the label on the box says.  :think:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-VICTORIA-VICTORINOX-Swiss-Army-Knife-FIELDMASTER-w-Bail-c-1957-68-MINT-BOX-/143122275728

Crazy. I bet the boxes got mixed up almost 60 years ago.
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2019, 01:23:38 PM »
That SAK is a good example of how difficult it is to determine value.  It was obviously valuable to the person who bought it.  Maybe the box does say Fisherman.  :dunno:
The auction ended higher than I thought it would, but then, if I had a Fisherman with bail and lost it, I'd probably bid a fair amount to have an older one again for sentimental reasons.
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2019, 04:24:30 PM »
I started thinking about that box and remembered my Woodsman has the same box. 
I wonder how long they used the box because my large awl Woodsman is original to the box, and I see that the Fisherman is newer without the large awl.  :think:

No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2019, 04:26:14 PM »
As a side note, there was a time when I thought the value of an exposed rivet SAK was $100 per layer.  It held true for some ended auctions that I saw and/or bought.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,286
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2019, 11:54:20 PM »
I started thinking about that box and remembered my Woodsman has the same box. 
I wonder how long they used the box because my large awl Woodsman is original to the box, and I see that the Fisherman is newer without the large awl.  :think:


That's the same box my exposed rivet Champion has

Hero Member Posts: 739
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 02:07:34 AM »
That SAK is a good example of how difficult it is to determine value.  It was obviously valuable to the person who bought it.  Maybe the box does say Fisherman.  :dunno:
The auction ended higher than I thought it would, but then, if I had a Fisherman with bail and lost it, I'd probably bid a fair amount to have an older one again for sentimental reasons.
I certainly understand *that*. I have a problem If I think it's been too long a losing streak with a particular model. At some point I just buck up and pay.

I started thinking about that box and remembered my Woodsman has the same box. 
I wonder how long they used the box because my large awl Woodsman is original to the box, and I see that the Fisherman is newer without the large awl.  :think:

(Image removed from quote.)

Good question and I don't know, but they could be somewhat close in production if that Fisherman is early '60s and yours is at the tail of the exposed pin range in the mid '50s?


That's the same box my exposed rivet Champion has

Nice samples from you both!  :tu: :tu:
No Life Club Posts: 4,393
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 02:35:39 AM »
That's the same box my exposed rivet Champion has
Love that one Vicman!  :cheers: :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,286
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 11:53:19 AM »

Nice samples from you both!  :tu: :tu:

Thanks kamakiri! :cheers:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,286
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 11:53:39 AM »
That's the same box my exposed rivet Champion has
Love that one Vicman!  :cheers: :tu:

Thanks FB! :cheers:
Hero Member Posts: 739
Re: How to determine value...it's difficult
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 06:33:28 PM »
As a side note, there was a time when I thought the value of an exposed rivet SAK was $100 per layer.  It held true for some ended auctions that I saw and/or bought.
That's an interesting rule of thumb. I'll keep that in mind with future purchases or next time I chase one in good condition.  Certainly makes some of mine feel like real steals!


 

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