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Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed. 1698

No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« on: February 15, 2019, 11:20:17 AM »
I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...

I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything.  I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US)  didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..

Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:

This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.

A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be



 
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,988 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 11:31:12 AM »
I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...

I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything.  I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US)  didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..

Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:

This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.

A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be
That's bad news Sam  :facepalm: Sorry you had such poor service from Gerber.

What do you plan to do now?

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf

'Derail a thread and we'll come at you like a block of cheese'. Captain Mags and Sergeant Fuzzbucket of the Anti Derai.... mmmmmmm cheese
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 12:03:37 PM »
Hmm.. I honestly do not know.. Its just one tool and its not like its a top range expensive kind of thing. Its the frustration and the many months and the shipping cost to and fro, twice..  :rant:
Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 56,234
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 12:25:18 PM »
That sucks, Sam :( I would not be happy either but also wouldn't try to send it again :facepalm: Not cool on Gerber's part that they can't check tools that they send out as warranty :dunno: Hope you end up finding a cheap reaplacement instead of having to mess with that one anymore, buddy :salute:
No Life Club Posts: 1,221
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 01:46:16 PM »
I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...

I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything.  I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US)  didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..

Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:

This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.

A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be

This is a sadly incredible video, quite disappointing :(


Can other owners of Diesel confirm this? Maybe the pliers have been this way all the time?
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,038 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 01:59:17 PM »
That's a shame, Sam. I like the Diesel too, and thankfully mine aren't that bad. I just checked mine, and they are closer than yours. I can't poke a piece of paper through like you can, but if I try to cut a single piece of paper, it will fold into that gap. Once there, it is clamped, and won't slide out with the pliers closed. If I try to cut a piece of paper folded double, it will cleanly cut one thickness, and fold/clamp the other. It will cleanly cut thin card though.

The only encouraging thing that I can think to say, is that in time it may improve if the two mating faced of the plier head wear, allowing the cutters to come closer together. However that doesn't help much if you don't use the pliers because the cutters won't do what you need  :-\



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,325 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2019, 01:09:44 PM »
This is odd- I have only ever dealt with Gerber's warranty department once and they went above and beyond for me, even possibly breaking some in house rules to make me happy.

I had a similar problem with Leatherman once- I had sent them a broken Juice model and they replaced it with an even more broken Juice.   Then when I sent that one back they lost it and refused to replace it until I brought in the big guns, telling them who I was and suggesting that maybe instead I should be talking to someone higher up... people I have direct contact info for.   >:D

In Leatherman's defense, this was not their screwup, but the company they have contracted to manage their business in Canada, which made it much more important for them to look after customers since they are a contract agency with minimum standards to meet.

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2019, 02:12:00 PM »
This is odd- I have only ever dealt with Gerber's warranty department once and they went above and beyond for me, even possibly breaking some in house rules to make me happy.

I had a similar problem with Leatherman once- I had sent them a broken Juice model and they replaced it with an even more broken Juice.   Then when I sent that one back they lost it and refused to replace it until I brought in the big guns, telling them who I was and suggesting that maybe instead I should be talking to someone higher up... people I have direct contact info for.   >:D

In Leatherman's defense, this was not their screwup, but the company they have contracted to manage their business in Canada, which made it much more important for them to look after customers since they are a contract agency with minimum standards to meet.

Def

Well, I didn't have any issue with the warranty/customer service dept. They were helpful enough and I do appreciate what they have done. They responded to my queries very quickly and they do make you feel assured that u are been taken care of. In this instance, I am not too sure I can say the same for their QC. I do really hope that I am so lucky that I got 3 lemons... I have absolutely no problems with their other models either and will continue to buy and collect them. Perhaps staying away from just Diesels at the moment..
No Life Club Posts: 3,564
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 08:21:09 PM »
Sorry to hear about the poor service Sam, very disappointing. I does make you wonder what QC steps they take in production? It should be a simple check to test the cutters, even before they assemble the plier head into the handles.  :facepalm:
Global Moderator Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here... Posts: 41,044
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2019, 09:54:51 PM »
That's a bummer Sam  :(
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2019, 02:24:31 PM »
Sorry to hear about the poor service Sam, very disappointing. I does make you wonder what QC steps they take in production? It should be a simple check to test the cutters, even before they assemble the plier head into the handles.  :facepalm:

I only have trouble with Diesel(s). The rest of the Gerber models I have are excellent. Needs no checking. I can literally just grab one and put them to work straight away, and I am confident they will perform as they should.
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2019, 02:24:56 PM »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2019, 03:40:57 PM »
Sam,

Are the jaws themselves misaligned(or splitting open side-to side during cutting), or are the aligned(with no play) and the cutters not touching?

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2019, 03:51:11 PM »
It does seem their customer service is good. As far as checking specific things for someone, you have to keep in mind that they likely process tens of thousands of warranty claims a month, with the entire system mostly automated. That is why the representative couldn't make the request. I doubt Gerber even repairs many tools, but instead, just replaces the bad ones and recycles the damaged/defective tools(they do have the US military contract warranty claims as well). :(

They probably don't even bother doing any real QC on the Diesel, as they moved production overseas to keep the Diesel profitable.  :ahhh

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2019, 06:06:09 PM »
Sam,

Are the jaws themselves misaligned(or splitting open side-to side during cutting), or are the aligned(with no play) and the cutters not touching?

They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
Hero Member Posts: 872 "Southbound Whatchya Leave Behind Ya?"
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 08:54:20 PM »
I am surprised to hear of the troubles with the Warranty Dept..Personally I would try one more time maybe speak personally to someone again? As for the Quality I have had good luck with the Diesel and so have others who have asked me in day to day conversations about a good Multi for a Resonable Price

"It seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time"
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2019, 02:02:33 AM »

They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
Ouch. Must be a casting flaw.  I wonder if these flawed Diesels are just a bad run and you have the worst Diesel luck? :think:

I wonder if you could use a punch and knock the cutter edges in a bit. :think:
I had some luck with worn tools with damaged cutters doing that before. But, that said, I have not tried it on a Gerber. Gerber plier/tool steel is the hardest MT steel I've used. :ahhh

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,038 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2019, 03:29:54 AM »

They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
Ouch. Must be a casting flaw.  I wonder if these flawed Diesels are just a bad run and you have the worst Diesel luck? :think:

I wonder if you could use a punch and knock the cutter edges in a bit. :think:
I had some luck with worn tools with damaged cutters doing that before. But, that said, I have not tried it on a Gerber. Gerber plier/tool steel is the hardest MT steel I've used. :ahhh

I don't see it as a casting flaw.

I assume that they grind the mating face of the two halves before they assemble and rivet them. It appears they're simply not quite grinding enough off, and not getting down to the cutter surface. They just need to check they're grinding far enough.

Now as this process is automated, it might be that variations in casting batches, means the grinding head has to go to a different height in order to assure that full clean up, but standard first component inspection and periodic instage inspection sampling should verify that this is happening. The other potential is accumulating wear on the fixture that holds the castings, so over a few thousand components, they are gradually sitting lower (or slightly out of square) in the jig, but again batch sampling should be finding these problems and prompting intervention.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:32:28 AM by AimlessWanderer »



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2019, 03:43:39 AM »
Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.

Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:45:27 AM by gerleatherberman »

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,038 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2019, 04:21:53 AM »
Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.

Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:

Well, we're only talking about half the thickness of a sheet of paper on each casting half, so I'm not sure anyone would notice. And the outermost faces should be ground after assembly, so they'd still be flush, and the tips would still align too.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2019, 04:45:58 AM »
Very true. Thanks, AW! I just looked at my Diesel and it has slightly uneven decorative "cut-outs". Not really something most people would care about if the pliers/cutters operated properly. Fortunately my Diesel has very low cutter tolerance.

For the life of me, I would like to know WHY they let so many defective plier heads leave the facility? Would the cost of scrapping the defective pliers cost more than the amount of warranty claims/shipping costs/customer service work?

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2019, 05:24:04 AM »
Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.

Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:

Well, we're only talking about half the thickness of a sheet of paper on each casting half, so I'm not sure anyone would notice. And the outermost faces should be ground after assembly, so they'd still be flush, and the tips would still align too.

50, my bad if I misunderstand you. The cutters mating side are not grounded flat like scissors. The cutter's side I would think that they are casted.. Pardon me if I am wrong. I have next to zero mechanical knowledge.

A closer look at my specimen. The pliers tip are aligned and there is no play in the pivot.

U can actually see the gap from here.


Perfect tip


With my next to zero expertise on this, I am thinking that this side is is casted.. I am pointing to a indent that starts to slope downwards.


You can see the giant gap from this pic.


I have to say that though my 2 previous pieces have this problem with the gap, this is by far the most ridiculous on I have come across...

I am not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, It is easy to forget the whole thing and move on. Most garbage MT that comes from China have this problem. In Gerber's defense, I have absolutely no problem with their other models. I may be just be the very lucky one to experience this 3 times in a row. Gerber, if this is a problem with your manufacturing process on the Diesel, u have things to sort out. It is a current model that u are still selling..
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2019, 05:32:27 AM »
Sam,

That cutter problem just seems absurd, especially with the photos. Almost like they are intentionally sending you the worst Diesels. :-\

Now I'm thinking that the machining couldn't be adjusted, even a paper sheet's worth, because of the way the pliers sit in the opening mechanism. If the Diesel head is cast like the MP600 pliers, then there isn't any room for them to compensate and they'd have to order new castings from modified molds. Maybe they thought they'd chance it to keep from starting the batch over? I am just throwing out hypotheses at this point.

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,038 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2019, 05:56:03 AM »
Thanks for those pics, Sam. That is appalling!

GLBM was right, they're bad castings.

The inside faces don't necessarily need to be ground, as they don't need to rub like scissors, but they should be FLAT, not angled like that, UNLESS the design intention WAS to grind them, and then the angle would give a clear visual indication of the grinding progression up to the apex of the cutter.

I would email that picture to Gerber, and show them what you've been sent. Tell them this is the third tool in a row that's had this problem, and that you're not prepared to incur any further postage costs, as you've already had to pay for the return of two tools.

Actually... no, wait...

Here's a pair of MP600 cutters to show what they should look like. Can you take a similar picture of the Diesel head open, showing an end view of the cutters please? That might be a better image to send to them, along with a comparative image (use this one if you want) to show what they should look like.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2019, 05:59:04 AM »
Sam,

That cutter problem just seems absurd, especially with the photos. Almost like they are intentionally sending you the worst Diesels. :-\


 :tu: Lucky me eh. Any one keen to take this as part of their collection? Could worth something in future.  >:D
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2019, 06:17:58 AM »
AW,

Whenever Sam can post the head on photo of his Diesel, we can compare it to this one. My June 2015 Diesel.



The pivot is notably less quality than the 600 pivot you pictured. sheesh, I am starting to not like the Diesel. that is an ugly pivot at the bottom of those jaws. :facepalm:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2019, 06:29:17 AM »
Dec 18 Diesel. I think.. 0871218K




Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,465 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2019, 06:37:55 AM »
Sam,

Very perplexing to say the least. Yours looks nicer than the pivot on mine, but it also indicates different casting molds. Maybe someone thought they were fixing the ugly pivot and forgot about the cutters. :rofl:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,038 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2019, 06:53:02 AM »
Pic of my BO diesel (2014?) attached.

Sam, your cutters don't actually look that bad towards the pivot, they seem to be pretty close to centreline, but they go a bit wayward towards the gripping area. Do they cut fine wire close to the pivot?

GLBM, yours seem fine. A bit of a poor complexion :D but otherwise, they seem to be on centre.



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,988
Re: Gerber Diesel - Utterly disappointed.
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2019, 07:18:17 AM »
Pic of my BO diesel (2014?) attached.

Sam, your cutters don't actually look that bad towards the pivot, they seem to be pretty close to centreline, but they go a bit wayward towards the gripping area. Do they cut fine wire close to the pivot?

GLBM, yours seem fine. A bit of a poor complexion :D but otherwise, they seem to be on centre.

They don't.. They only cut insulation and folds over the copper wire.. even when all the way in. I cant even hold paper in there. pulls straight out.  :dunno:

 

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