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Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice

Syph007 · 31 · 1144
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ca Offline Syph007

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Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
on: February 19, 2019, 08:35:07 PM
Had some plans to offer a bunch of Ti scale options but my prototype only lasted about a week in use before it looked like this.  The wave I first started using rusted just like this.  Yes this got damp in my shop when I used it but not super wet and not more than all my other sets of regular pliers which are rust free.  I used the small flat head drivers to pry at things and thats about it.  The 420 series steel they use for these tools just sucks.

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« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 08:38:47 PM by Syph007 »
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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #1 on: February 19, 2019, 08:43:23 PM
Looks like it’s been in a lake for 20 years  :facepalm:
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it Offline balvenie

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #2 on: February 19, 2019, 09:05:53 PM
Mmm..... it seems to me that where you live is really wet or just you left the tools in damp environment. If you let your tools i dry condition nothing happens
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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 09:16:02 PM
You must have something corrosive in your shop for it to rust like that.  :think:
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 10:12:45 PM
Quote from: SteveC on February 19, 2019, 09:16:02 PM
You must have something corrosive in your shop for it to rust like that.  :think:

Nope just damp.  I have about 11 different pliers, side cutters and Saks and theyre all fine in same environment.  My vice is the only other thing Ive found rust on.  I've never had good luck with LM tools. 
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 10:32:47 PM
Djees...

That's a bit too much...
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us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #6 on: February 19, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
That is crazy :ahhh never had that much rust on any LM :o that is even counting the Rebar and ST300 that I used so long at work  ???

I don't think the Wave that powernoodle buried for a year was that bad :rofl:
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #7 on: February 19, 2019, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: Poncho65 on February 19, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
That is crazy :ahhh never had that much rust on any LM :o that is even counting the Rebar and ST300 that I used so long at work  ???

I don't think the Wave that powernoodle buried for a year was that bad :rofl:

 :rofl:
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au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 02:30:14 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o
That's the most rusted LM I've ever seen!  :ahhh
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us Offline gregpost

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 02:30:50 AM
I live in Florida where it's humid and often bike or go outdoors with multitools. I've had a little superficial surface rust that usually wipes off but that's about it. I think Leatherman's dull greyish metal finish has more to do with the rust that forms than the steel. I noticed the more polished parts of the tool or polished tools don't really rust.

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us Online cody6268

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 02:49:14 AM
Quote from: gregpost on February 20, 2019, 02:30:50 AM
I live in Florida where it's humid and often bike or go outdoors with multitools. I've had a little superficial surface rust that usually wipes off but that's about it. I think Leatherman's dull greyish metal finish has more to do with the rust that forms than the steel. I noticed the more polished parts of the tool or polished tools don't really rust.

And that's the same with me. The old tools (PST, Mini, OG Super Tool) rarely rust, yet I had an ST300 rust an hour after being cleaned and left to air dry.  The only older LM I had rust was a PST II that had some tomato sauce from Spaghetti-Os that I didn't notice got left on the can opener.
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 02:56:54 AM
That happened in one week?  :o


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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #12 on: February 20, 2019, 06:58:56 AM
 :o whoa. 
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #13 on: February 20, 2019, 07:49:18 AM
I'm going to have to agree with Steve. Something isn't quite right. That just doesn't happen like that and that quickly without a serious issue. The liners are not the same steel as the pliers and tools either.
Moisture like that would corrode the liners in a sak in a few weeks from my experience. You must be missing a variable in the environment of exposure, moisture treatment, oil problems, etc. It looks like it was sprayed with lemon juice and left out. :think:

I'm thinking it has something to do with whatever oil treatment you are using or not using on different items. My regular tools will spot up with just a tiny bit of moisture when none of the MTs(from saks to LMs, Gerbers to SOGs) I have would. And with oil treatments I do on everything I use and carry, I don't even get rust spots on a wet day.
What are you cleaning the steel with during mod stages? Some cleaners can cause serious issues, even when you think you've washed it off. Example: Ammonia can seriously accelerate corrosion and many cleaners have it in the formula. And, after thorough washing, several oil treatments should be done to help negate the cleaning methods.
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de Offline Shuya

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #14 on: February 20, 2019, 08:11:32 AM
The fact that all your other pliers do not rust has nothing to do with your titanium scales on the knifes.

What happened here is a typical example of galvanic corrosion, where two metals with different electrochemical potentials are in contact with each other while some galvanic sollution (moisture for the most part) is present.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

This can be avoided by simply isolating both metals from each others, eg. by using non conductive washers.

While I have used lots of different knifes, I have not yet seen something like this without seawater around.

The process is used with galvanic anodes in water boilers and stuff, to avoid the tank to be corroded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 08:13:54 AM by Shuya »
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tr Offline ddogu

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 09:06:57 AM
This is just sad...

Quote from: Shuya on February 20, 2019, 08:11:32 AM
The fact that all your other pliers do not rust has nothing to do with your titanium scales on the knifes.

What happened here is a typical example of galvanic corrosion, where two metals with different electrochemical potentials are in contact with each other while some galvanic sollution (moisture for the most part) is present.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

This can be avoided by simply isolating both metals from each others, eg. by using non conductive washers.

While I have used lots of different knifes, I have not yet seen something like this without seawater around.

The process is used with galvanic anodes in water boilers and stuff, to avoid the tank to be corroded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode

 :o  :o :think:


Though, it can also be a wounded, acid-blooded xenomorph is hiding in his shop.  :assimilate:
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 09:09:16 AM by ddogu »
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 11:42:00 AM
Quote from: gerleatherberman on February 20, 2019, 07:49:18 AM
I'm going to have to agree with Steve. Something isn't quite right. That just doesn't happen like that and that quickly without a serious issue. The liners are not the same steel as the pliers and tools either.
Moisture like that would corrode the liners in a sak in a few weeks from my experience. You must be missing a variable in the environment of exposure, moisture treatment, oil problems, etc. It looks like it was sprayed with lemon juice and left out. :think:

I'm thinking it has something to do with whatever oil treatment you are using or not using on different items. My regular tools will spot up with just a tiny bit of moisture when none of the MTs(from saks to LMs, Gerbers to SOGs) I have would. And with oil treatments I do on everything I use and carry, I don't even get rust spots on a wet day.
What are you cleaning the steel with during mod stages? Some cleaners can cause serious issues, even when you think you've washed it off. Example: Ammonia can seriously accelerate corrosion and many cleaners have it in the formula. And, after thorough washing, several oil treatments should be done to help negate the cleaning methods.

Ah cleaners.  Now that isn't something I thought about.  This my was all apart and I scrubbed it well with a few things to clean everything up and I can't remember if I soaked the parts in any oil after to give them a coating. I'm going to assume no since I was prototyping.  I was just shocked how quickly the rust formed.  I guess I'll take this as a warning to keep MT oiled if their going to be used hard.

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au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #17 on: February 20, 2019, 11:44:16 AM
So if the rust issue is taken care of, will there be Juice Ti scales? ::)
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #18 on: February 20, 2019, 01:32:02 PM
I'd be thinking about what chemicals it might have been in contact withl but I'm wondering if there's an issue of the dissimilar materials at play here as well?  :think:  Just thinking out loud.
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #19 on: February 20, 2019, 01:42:12 PM
Well, the good news with it rusting like that, is at least you know it's a genuine Leatherman  >:D

 :P

 :rofl:


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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #20 on: February 20, 2019, 02:01:55 PM
Classic Al   :pok:

 :D
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #21 on: February 20, 2019, 02:12:39 PM
Quote from: AimlessWanderer on February 20, 2019, 01:42:12 PM
Well, the good news with it rusting like that, is at least you know it's a genuine Leatherman  >:D

 :P

 :rofl:

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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #22 on: February 20, 2019, 03:04:39 PM
Quote from: ReamerPunch on February 20, 2019, 11:44:16 AM
So if the rust issue is taken care of, will there be Juice Ti scales? ::)

If I did juice scales I'd put a clip on one as that would be a worthy upgrade I think.

Doing Ti charge scales in a few patterns would be much easier to have people install though since they already screw together. 

Juice has rivets to drill out. I don't know do you think people would want to buy a juice kit that they'd have to drill rivets?

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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #23 on: February 20, 2019, 03:24:27 PM
Drilling the rivets on the juice should be "easy" enough  :dunno:.  I'm guessing if Ti scale were offered you'd certainty have some who would be more than happy to give it a go.  If you supply scales and replacement rivets ( torx ) then I don't see what not  :tu:.   
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au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #24 on: February 20, 2019, 03:32:11 PM
 :iagree:
Especially scales with drawers. :pok:
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #25 on: February 20, 2019, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: Aloha on February 20, 2019, 03:24:27 PM
Drilling the rivets on the juice should be "easy" enough  :dunno:.  I'm guessing if Ti scale were offered you'd certainty have some who would be more than happy to give it a go.  If you supply scales and replacement rivets ( torx ) then I don't see what not  :tu:.

The only problem is that each juice model is different thickness so many different pivot lengths. 
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #26 on: February 20, 2019, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: ReamerPunch on February 20, 2019, 03:32:11 PM
:iagree:
Especially scales with drawers. :pok:

Oh ya that's got potential.

Oh you know what that would work awesome on something like an S2 where the scales sit un even.  The thicker Ti drawer scale would make that scale thicker and make them even.
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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #27 on: February 20, 2019, 04:13:43 PM
I like the idea of the drawers on one of the scales  :tu: :like:
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00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #28 on: February 20, 2019, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: ReamerPunch on February 20, 2019, 03:32:11 PM
:iagree:
Especially scales with drawers. :pok:

I dun get whats a drawer.  :think:
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us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Heres why I gave up modding the LM Juice
Reply #29 on: February 20, 2019, 04:24:54 PM
Quote from: Sam Lim on February 20, 2019, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: ReamerPunch on February 20, 2019, 03:32:11 PM
:iagree:
Especially scales with drawers. :pok:

I dun get whats a drawer.  :think:

Syph designed a Ti drawer into his SAK scales that are spring loaded that allows one to store Vic pen, pin, toothpick and tweezers in the scale and room for more things :tu: Very awesome addition on one of his SAKs :like: and would make an awesome addition to a Juice :o :like:
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 04:26:12 PM by Poncho65 »
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