The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread

[Don Pablo]

Not to keep bringing this up, or to call BS on someone.

But I have been using the Philips driver of my 111mm soldier quite a few times and have applied a good bit of torque on it.

I don’t see mine showing anything that would suggest it is close to failing or close to what he experienced.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Could it be that he just had a bad one?


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He did it on two totally different SAKs, the second time with a torque wrench to check the torque at which it failed.
The first time could have been a one-off, especially since it was a mod. The second time, repeating force applied, resulting in an identical failure on a stock SAK, is what convinced me.

[Ron Who]

I´d like to be in this thread but I don´t have any stupid questions.

[Mechanickal]

Stupid answers are welcome too

[MMR]

He did it on two totally different SAKs, the second time with a torque wrench to check the torque at which it failed.
The first time could have been a one-off, especially since it was a mod. The second time, repeating force applied, resulting in an identical failure on a stock SAK, is what convinced me.

Yeah I found that surprising as well that he was able to get an identical failure on two SAKs.

Maybe Victorinox has improved on their design since 2010?

I don’t know, I’m just guessing.

It just seems pretty extreme what he experienced. To be honest; I have never seen or heard of any identical / similar failures to what this guy experienced, unless it was similar to someone applying their body weight to the multitool/SAK or something like that which they were never designed to tolerate anyway

EDIT:

If anything; the can opener/ small screwdriver is the one showing the most signs of being twisted / torqued too hard.





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[MMR]

Stupid answers are welcome too

What is the meaning of life?


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[Fortytwo]

What is the meaning of life?


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Fortytwo? Now for the question...

[MMR]

Does anyone else SAK not like dirt / dust at all? ...and I do mean; AT ALL.


I was out doing some work on a hunting property that I am part of yesterday and it was super dry and dusty yesterday as well.

I had my LM Surge and my 111mm Soldier with me, I used the Surge over and over and it didn’t seem to mind the dust / dirt at all.

But my 111mm Soldier got totally locked up from the dirt / dust and I have seriously spend an hour last night and an hour this morning cleaning it out....I had to wash it out with hot water, let it dry...soak it in WD40 and leave it over night and I have been cleaning it with tissues and trying to re oil it with tool oil....but it’s still kind of crusty when I try to open the tools in it.





I am kind of surprised that being a “Soldier” and claimed to be a standard army issue in the Swiss Army, that it isn’t more resilient to dust / dirt.

Again it didn’t bother my LM Surge at all.


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[pomsbz]

Talking of inline phillips, are they paired with anything other than the magnifying glass or could they be paired with anything else?

[Don Pablo]

Does anyone else SAK not like dirt / dust at all? ...and I do mean; AT ALL.


I was out doing some work on a hunting property that I am part of yesterday and it was super dry and dusty yesterday as well.

I had my LM Surge and my 111mm Soldier with me, I used the Surge over and over and it didn’t seem to mind the dust / dirt at all.

But my 111mm Soldier got totally locked up from the dirt / dust and I have seriously spend an hour last night and an hour this morning cleaning it out....I had to wash it out with hot water, let it dry...soak it in WD40 and leave it over night and I have been cleaning it with tissues and trying to re oil it with tool oil....but it’s still kind of crusty when I try to open the tools in it.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I am kind of surprised that being a “Soldier” and claimed to be a standard army issue in the Swiss Army, that it isn’t more resilient to dust / dirt.

Again it didn’t bother my LM Surge at all.


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Victorinox has much smaller tolerances than Leatherman, so it takes less to lock them up. 

[MMR]

Victorinox has much smaller tolerances than Leatherman, so it takes less to lock them up. 

To a surprising extend as it turns out....it’s pretty much a night and day kind of difference between the two


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[Max Stone]

Same is said for the AK47. You can bury one for years and the weapon would still fire without so much as a wipe down due to the relaxed tolerances.

I guess MMR this is a theme you will find across a range of tools? But it can be a serious consideration for a multitool that gets used in a dirty environment.

I wonder what Victorinox would say to your findings? 

[McStitchy]

To a surprising extend as it turns out....it’s pretty much a night and day kind of difference between the two


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This is the playground for Gerbers... the dirty boys of all MT's (no, I don't have one yet, but I've heart so  )

[AimlessWanderer]

Talking of inline phillips, are they paired with anything other than the magnifying glass or could they be paired with anything else?

A light. Here's a top view pic of my Voyager Lite.

Also, a pic of my Wenger mod that I built with a carabiner, as I'm no fan of the alligator wrench.

[AimlessWanderer]

To a surprising extend as it turns out....it’s pretty much a night and day kind of difference between the two


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It's not just tolerances, but mating surfaces. The tool tangs are tight up to the liners, as are the full length of the backsprings. Far more close contact surface are than just the little washers on the Leatherman

[Don Pablo]

This is the playground for Gerbers... the dirty boys of all MT's (no, I don't have one yet, but I've heart so  )

Ah, yes. In the gun analogy, I believe the Gerber's are the actual AK-47s.

[McStitchy]

Ah, yes. In the gun analogy, I believe the Gerber's are the actual AK-47s.

 

[MMR]

Same is said for the AK47. You can bury one for years and the weapon would still fire without so much as a wipe down due to the relaxed tolerances.

I guess MMR this is a theme you will find across a range of tools? But it can be a serious consideration for a multitool that gets used in a dirty environment.

I wonder what Victorinox would say to your findings? 

That’s a good analogy, I remember when I was in the military and we were doing a training exercise with some guys in the polish army.

Denmark uses a Canadian licensed copy of an M16 called a “Diemaco C7” (Danish military designation is M95, since they have been in Danish military service since 1995), the one I had had an ELCAN optic on it, it was actually a really nice shooting rifle.

Anyway, when we were doing the exercise, it had rained every day for the last 2 weeks and it was just deep mud EVERYWHERE, plus it was super cold...a typical November day in Denmark...and it sucked BIG TIME!

And our M16rifles didn’t like mud at all, I’d almost say they are allergic to it, but the Polish guys with their AK rifles had almost zero jams during the whole exercise ...and even when they had a jam they could just take the top cover off, hold open the bolt; and  poor some water from their water bottle into the chamber and firing mechanism, put the top cover back on, reload; and the AK would fire as if it was brand new again.



I honestly didn’t believe my own eyes at first, when I saw it


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[MMR]

It's not just tolerances, but mating surfaces. The tool tangs are tight up to the liners, as are the full length of the backsprings. Far more close contact surface are than just the little washers on the Leatherman

It really is, not exactly ideal on a “Soldier” knife or any SAK one would bring into the woods.

It’s a good SAK the soldier and it’s a good edc knife as well, but I will think twice about bringing it with me to anywhere where it might see dirt / dust / mud from now on.

It’s a shame really, because the saw in the 111mm frame is amazing for its size and super handy because it’s quick and easy to open up; saw what needs sawing; and fold back up.

And it’s a nice long and thin design as well, which makes it even handier in tight areas / spots.

It’s a very aggressive saw as well, I usually don’t like the saws in MT / SAKs because I think they are too small (which is one of the only things I don’t like about my LM Surge) but the one in the 111mm SAK is amazing.


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[MMR]

This brings me on to my next stupid question:

These tight tolerances, are they the same on the 130mm SAKs?

I really want to get a 130mm SAKs due to its larger saw and knife, which would be perfect for me as a “Bush walking” / “Bush Craft” knife.

The 130mm frame SAKs gets highly recommend by a lot of the outdoors channels on YouTube and they seem to do extremely well then they field test them, plus there are some who work on a farm / plantation who say they use them there every day.

(And omg just look at how good the rangerwood 55 looks)

But I am going to think twice about getting one for myself, if it is as intolerant to dust / dirt / mud as my 111mm Soldier is..


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[Fortytwo]

It really is, not exactly ideal on a “Soldier” knife or any SAK one would bring into the woods.

I have considered this and the "alternative history" where Switzerland wasn't neutral in WWI and I believe that if the early model 1890 had been issued to the trenches we wouldn't have SAKs today in the way we know them. I just don't think they would have held up to frontline use in the mud and that the Swiss army would have stopped issuing them. Without the army contracts the brand recognition would be much less valuable and having a solid army contract must have helped immensely with the financial aspect of production.

[gregpost]

In the Wenger blackout series did any of the models have scissors?

[AimlessWanderer]

It really is, not exactly ideal on a “Soldier” knife or any SAK one would bring into the woods.

It’s a good SAK the soldier and it’s a good edc knife as well, but I will think twice about bringing it with me to anywhere where it might see dirt / dust / mud from now on.

It’s a shame really, because the saw in the 111mm frame is amazing for its size and super handy because it’s quick and easy to open up; saw what needs sawing; and fold back up.

And it’s a nice long and thin design as well, which makes it even handier in tight areas / spots.

It’s a very aggressive saw as well, I usually don’t like the saws in MT / SAKs because I think they are too small (which is one of the only things I don’t like about my LM Surge) but the one in the 111mm SAK is amazing.


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I used to work in heavy engineering, where there were lots of metal particles, and contaminated oils and greases, which could turn a Swiss knife's walk and talk into crunchy gritty mess. They always flushed out and cleaned up well with a little effort though.

It might be worth experimenting with different oils on the tools. While oils necessary to keep the tools working smoothly, can/will trap airbourne particles, thus exacerbating the problem, a heavier oil may help to prevent ingress of those particles into the workings. The only thing I'd recommend not doing, is using the same knife for food prep. Partially, as you might end up needing an oil that isn't food safe, plus there'll still be some of the grit and grime in and around the tool. Also, I would consider whatever tool is assigned to that environment as a beater, and accept that in time, a few years working life may be shaved off it - but if that does happen, it means the knife has worked it's arse off, and you shouldn't feel bad if any tool in that environment has a reduced life, any more than tyres or shoes wearing out quicker on different terrains.

[SirVicaLot]

It really is, not exactly ideal on a “Soldier” knife or any SAK one would bring into the woods.

It’s a good SAK the soldier and it’s a good edc knife as well, but I will think twice about bringing it with me to anywhere where it might see dirt / dust / mud from now on.

It’s a shame really, because the saw in the 111mm frame is amazing for its size and super handy because it’s quick and easy to open up; saw what needs sawing; and fold back up.

And it’s a nice long and thin design as well, which makes it even handier in tight areas / spots.

It’s a very aggressive saw as well, I usually don’t like the saws in MT / SAKs because I think they are too small (which is one of the only things I don’t like about my LM Surge) but the one in the 111mm SAK is amazing.


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Have you ever tried a swisstool in tough dirt/dust situations? Would be interesting to compare that to a Leatherman 

[Antti Lammi]

Have you ever tried a swisstool in tough dirt/dust situations? Would be interesting to compare that to a Leatherman 

On my test what involves concrete dust and rainy weather showed me that Spirit didnt manage so well on those tests, after use it felt bit clumpy, tools didnt lock easily without cleaning tool, luckily i was saved my wave.


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[SirVicaLot]

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience 

[MMR]

I used to work in heavy engineering, where there were lots of metal particles, and contaminated oils and greases, which could turn a Swiss knife's walk and talk into crunchy gritty mess. They always flushed out and cleaned up well with a little effort though.

It might be worth experimenting with different oils on the tools. While oils necessary to keep the tools working smoothly, can/will trap airbourne particles, thus exacerbating the problem, a heavier oil may help to prevent ingress of those particles into the workings. The only thing I'd recommend not doing, is using the same knife for food prep. Partially, as you might end up needing an oil that isn't food safe, plus there'll still be some of the grit and grime in and around the tool. Also, I would consider whatever tool is assigned to that environment as a beater, and accept that in time, a few years working life may be shaved off it - but if that does happen, it means the knife has worked it's arse off, and you shouldn't feel bad if any tool in that environment has a reduced life, any more than tyres or shoes wearing out quicker on different terrains.

You actually bring up a very good point here.

Personally I have been using on all my MT and SAKs, but if they really saw heavy use I let them sit overnight soaking in WD40, and then give them a round of tool oil the next day.

I will say though that WD40 doesn’t seem to have the same affect on SAKs as it does on leathermans.

But I always make sure to have all the excess oil wiped off and that the tool is dry before putting it back in use. Otherwise like you said, they will just become magnets for contaminants.

I do use my Soldier as my edc knife and my Surge as my tool for when I am either doing something around the house or in the field.

My Soldier has seem a lot of usage, but this was my first time really exposing it to dust and dirt




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[MMR]

Have you ever tried a swisstool in tough dirt/dust situations? Would be interesting to compare that to a Leatherman 

I I’m afraid not, I don’t own a SwissTool


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[MMR]

This brings me on to my next stupid question:

These tight tolerances, are they the same on the 130mm SAKs?

I really want to get a 130mm SAKs due to its larger saw and knife, which would be perfect for me as a “Bush walking” / “Bush Craft” knife.

The 130mm frame SAKs gets highly recommend by a lot of the outdoors channels on YouTube and they seem to do extremely well then they field test them, plus there are some who work on a farm / plantation who say they use them there every day.

(And omg just look at how good the rangerwood 55 looks)

But I am going to think twice about getting one for myself, if it is as intolerant to dust / dirt / mud as my 111mm Soldier is..


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Any thoughts on this anyone?


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[MMR]

Any thoughts on this anyone?


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[Don Pablo]

I've never had a 130mm SAK.
So my default guess is that it's the same.