Leatherman Free P2/P4 Club and Feedback Thread

[gerleatherberman]

How is the Free’s hand comfort when pressing down in pliers mode, compared to the Charge/Wave/Rebar?

The lock release tabs seem like a possible hot spot?

I also see 2 strange little nubs sticking out of the handle in the grip area?

I have mid-large hands and do not feel the little alignment 'nubs'. The lock tabs don't present themselves to my hands when gripping, but some people grip it differently. I'll get some grip pics up in a bit.

For those of you that have gotten your Free series tools already, can you open the implements with leather work gloves on?

 From what I've been reading it sounds like you can actually use everything one handed (which is enough of a selling point for me to buy one) but I was curious if they work with gloves.   I may give the P4 a shot at replacing my ST300 for work EDC.  Thanks!

The long tools would be workable OHO with gloves, but the smaller tools may take some technique to use with gloves one-handed. 

I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...

Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is?  No...

The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).

I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.

The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman  importer should help me with that without extra cost this time  ).

But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it.  In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.

Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.

Just to clarify, I don't think any of us think it is a game changer. Not that I know of anyway. I am a bit dense sometimes.

The lock system is really easy for me, but mainly because I got accustomed to it during the PowerAccess challenge. It also uses lock tabs that pull away from the pivot. Give it a week and it should be easier. Hypothetically anyway.

I thought the same about the thinner tools, but then realized I have done some crazy smurf with the big driver on the Wave, which is kind of thin. And with the large flat driver/pry tool on the P, I wouldn't need to use the other tools for prying. Time will reveal the outcome of the thin tools though.

I'd keep the Surge too, if only one tool could be kept. It is damn near indestructible.

I like the P scissors, but still think the 91mm scissors on the Swisstool(not the silly scissors on the smaller spirit) are better. The P scissors could probably cut thicker material, but the 91mm vic scissors are so much better cutting thin material, and thin material is a majority of my cutting tasks.

[Monrogue]

Thanks for the picture of the tool pocket riding with clip. Much appreciated.

Is the clip removable? 

Does it hinder the feel at all when holding either the P2 or P4?

I liked the clip on my Wave as an option to carry, but not when using the tool, the clip just felt in the way to me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is removable by the looks of it.  I actually like it in the position it’s in as it is a place for my thumb to rest in plier mode.

[Monrogue]

I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...

Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is?  No...

The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).

I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.

The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman  importer should help me with that without extra cost this time  ).

But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it.  In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.

Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.

I hear you on your points.  It won’t completely replace my Wave either, but it certainly will be a top tool in my “rotation”.  Also I can one hand open my Wave’s pliers, although it’s not as enjoyable as the Free’s.  I’m happy having a OHO knife and pliers, so the Wave fits too, and it has the diamond file.  So yeah, overall the Wave may edge out the Free in that respect, but the P2 fits me perfectly well for my needs. 

[ZapWizard]

This is NOT a photo!

I may have gone a bit overboard on how much detail I ended up putting into my 3D model of the Free P4. I did it as sort of skill building exercise.
I photographed each component, and along with calipers modeled each one from scratch in Solid Edge. The render was done in Keyshot.

I will use the model to plan a few forthcoming mod ideas, as well as a form fit holster design.
 Click for the 4K wallpaper size

[gerleatherberman]

AMAZING modeling/rendering, ZapWizard! 

It really does the quality of the P2/P4 justice.

[gerleatherberman]

O.K. I have been enjoying the P4 since I got it a few days ago. But, one thing has made me feel like the P4 was a bit too 'alien'(for lack of a better word). So, I got brave and tightened the screws that mount the pliers head. Just a tad, but the results are great. The tool feels a bit sturdier and the 'click in' of the pliers feels nicer to me. If you haven't dealt with loctite before, and want to tighten/loosen P series pivots, please go read the threads about it on the forum. Nobody likes a stripped out screw/post. 

[JustinCase]

A butane lighter will do the trick. Just heat the screw for a few seconds and it will turn very easy

[gerleatherberman]

 
Good advice, Justin!

ADVISORY: THE PLIERS MOUNTS ARE LOCATED NEAR THE ELASTOMER CUSHIONS. USE CAUTION WHILE HEATING.
They are heat resistant(as Aimless pointed out), but too much heat will damage them.

I use a soldering iron, but not everyone has one of those. Butane lighters can be had for a few bucks or less.

[Raoul Octav]

I used a regular hairdryer when i hade ti unscrew my LMNs, or hot tap water

[ReamerPunch]

This is NOT a photo!

Are you a wizard?

[Poncho65]

It's in his name so he must be That is one awesome model  of the P4

[gerleatherberman]

I'd like to go over some of my observations again.

The P2/P4 are of the highest possible fit & finish I've seen on an MT.
The OHO on all tools is very nice, and the no-fingernail system works as advertised.
The pliers system is robust and well thought about. While the pliers opening isn't as large as the Wave's, it is still wider than their Swiss competitor's pliers. The cutter blades, which have a good track record, seem well incorporated and function well.
They are extremely satisfying to operate.
The price, at least in the US, is reasonable for the level of QC I see on the P2 and P4 I received.
For the features and effort that is involved with the P2/P4, the tools are well-packages and have a nice profile. The P2 pocket clip, which will be available for sale at some point, works equally as well with the P4. Neither tool is excessively heavy, if your a full-size MT EDC guy.
The drivers are better than anticipated, with the phillips well-formed and flat-drivers nicely ground for extra biting ability.
The sheath, moving on from jokes and not being horizontal carry, is well made and a good design for EDC in my opinion. The grey color fits the tool design nicely.

Some criticisms:
On the P4, the saw is somewhat tedious to extract with the thumb, because of the strong tool locks. The SE blade is somewhat difficult to extract, compared to the PE. Hopefully some break-in will help with that. I can still open them with my thumb, but it isn't as easy as opening the PE blade.
When extracting the awl, a little caution is needed, as opening it requires you to push the side with the edge on it. People with really soft skin should be careful not to slide the thumb on it when pushing open.
When the handles slam together in the pliers-open position, via cutting hard wire or snapping the handles together too fast, the drivers can pop out and say peekaboo. It only happened to me a few times, and it seems to have stopped happening with the pivots loosening up. Now, if they say peekaboo, they are pulled back in by the magnets right away. Note: the long blades cannot pop out, because the pliers engagement locks then in place.
The magnets, while a cool idea and super fun, will attract metal particles. The only way to deal with that is to periodically make a little roll of packing tape and dab the metal particles off of the magnet housing.
The pocket clip and lanyard attachment should have been included with both versions from the factory, since both the P2 and P4 work well with either attachment.

In short, if you're on the fence about buying one, then I recommend only buying one if you want a tool to play with and get moderate use out of. The Wave and Charge are still better EDC tools overall in a heavy-duty work environment. The P series would serve you well, but it wasn't designed or produces to replace the Wave/Charge. The marketing tactics were unfortunate and set the P series up for a lot of conjectured criticism. I hope Leatherman will not talk crap about their current lineup while promoting a new model in the future. The Free P series isn't for diehard Wave/Charge lovers, and Leatherman didn't respect that fact during promotion.
For moderate users who appreciate a sweet and useful 'sidepiece', the P2/P4 is a good option. Lots of unique features and awesome precision quality construction. IMO, the P4 makes the Vic Spirit look and feel a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, and barring whatever design concerns you may have, the P2/P4 are outstanding in that regards.
I know I don't need to recommend the P2/P4 to collectors, but it is worth having. If only just for the fact it is unique and represents the different direction that so many people whined about LM not taking. They did a great job on the Free P overall, but there are some quirks like most MTs have. The price is reasonable, as far as US pricing goes(foreign market markup is ridiculous though), considering it is completely made in-house in the US. If you think it is overpriced, then there are many cool NEW unique design options from Ganzo and Roxon these days, for a third the cost. You just don't get the ultra modern design/style, all OHO no-fingernail function, LM brand, US build, or excellent warranty. But, hey, you saved a hundred bucks right?
Gerber and SOG still make pliers based MTs for a lot less money as well. They're just not going to be anything all that different to what you may already have.
Love your Vic Spirit and aren't much of a fan of LM? Maybe save the money for some more SwissTools/SAKs? That is what I'd do in that position. If I weren't big-time into MTs, I'd probably read this thread and move on to something else. I do remember the days when I was happy with a Vic Explorer and Gerber Pinchy. But, nowadays, I am always looking for special, unique, fidget-factor, and hopefully high-quality tools. The Free P2/P4 fits my current requirements for purchase.

Note: Sorry for any typos, run-on sentences, possible contradictory statements . I stayed up all night watching youtube videos and drinking coffee, while surfing MT.o.

Edit:

Hoping the future pocket clips for sale will be the same as the one that came on the P2. I went ahead and put the P2's clip on the P4. After the Surge challenge, the P4 is gonna get some hip time to see the extent of the possible steel dust issue at work.

[Monrogue]

Well said GLBM
I definitely fall into the category of wanting a fidget favor MT as a moderate (probably even less) user, and I really dig my P2. 

[gerleatherberman]

Well said GLBM
I definitely fall into the category of wanting a fidget favor MT as a moderate (probably even less) user, and I really dig my P2.

Thank you, Monrogue!

[roamingcat]

Very informative and helpful insight, particular to those who hasn't had the opportunity of owing or using one yet, like me  . Thank you GLBM for taking the time to share this with us.

[Etherealicer]

I'm not sure...

We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...

A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.

H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.

I) Combination of F & H. They have settled but try to give new tools a chance, just to confirm that what they have is the best

[gerleatherberman]

Very informative and helpful insight, particular to those who hasn't had the opportunity of owing or using one yet, like me  . Thank you GLBM for taking the time to share this with us.

Thank you for the kind words and you're welcome, roamingcat. 

I'm a bit surprised that there weren't more early buyers of the P series here on MT.o. Hopefully we will see some more input as more members get theirs in.

[Top-Gear-24]

I'd like to go over some of my observations again.

The P2/P4 are of the highest possible fit & finish I've seen on an MT.
The OHO on all tools is very nice, and the no-fingernail system works as advertised.
The pliers system is robust and well thought about. While the pliers opening isn't as large as the Wave's, it is still wider than their Swiss competitor's pliers. The cutter blades, which have a good track record, seem well incorporated and function well.
They are extremely satisfying to operate.
The price, at least in the US, is reasonable for the level of QC I see on the P2 and P4 I received.
For the features and effort that is involved with the P2/P4, the tools are well-packages and have a nice profile. The P2 pocket clip, which will be available for sale at some point, works equally as well with the P4. Neither tool is excessively heavy, if your a full-size MT EDC guy.
The drivers are better than anticipated, with the phillips well-formed and flat-drivers nicely ground for extra biting ability.
The sheath, moving on from jokes and not being horizontal carry, is well made and a good design for EDC in my opinion. The grey color fits the tool design nicely.

Some criticisms:
On the P4, the saw is somewhat tedious to extract with the thumb, because of the strong tool locks. The SE blade is somewhat difficult to extract, compared to the PE. Hopefully some break-in will help with that. I can still open them with my thumb, but it isn't as easy as opening the PE blade.
When extracting the awl, a little caution is needed, as opening it requires you to push the side with the edge on it. People with really soft skin should be careful not to slide the thumb on it when pushing open.
When the handles slam together in the pliers-open position, via cutting hard wire or snapping the handles together too fast, the drivers can pop out and say peekaboo. It only happened to me a few times, and it seems to have stopped happening with the pivots loosening up. Now, if they say peekaboo, they are pulled back in by the magnets right away. Note: the long blades cannot pop out, because the pliers engagement locks then in place.
The magnets, while a cool idea and super fun, will attract metal particles. The only way to deal with that is to periodically make a little roll of packing tape and dab the metal particles off of the magnet housing.
The pocket clip and lanyard attachment should have been included with both versions from the factory, since both the P2 and P4 work well with either attachment.

In short, if you're on the fence about buying one, then I recommend only buying one if you want a tool to play with and get moderate use out of. The Wave and Charge are still better EDC tools overall in a heavy-duty work environment. The P series would serve you well, but it wasn't designed or produces to replace the Wave/Charge. The marketing tactics were unfortunate and set the P series up for a lot of conjectured criticism. I hope Leatherman will not talk crap about their current lineup while promoting a new model in the future. The Free P series isn't for diehard Wave/Charge lovers, and Leatherman didn't respect that fact during promotion.
For moderate users who appreciate a sweet and useful 'sidepiece', the P2/P4 is a good option. Lots of unique features and awesome precision quality construction. IMO, the P4 makes the Vic Spirit look and feel a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, and barring whatever design concerns you may have, the P2/P4 are outstanding in that regards.
I know I don't need to recommend the P2/P4 to collectors, but it is worth having. If only just for the fact it is unique and represents the different direction that so many people whined about LM not taking. They did a great job on the Free P overall, but there are some quirks like most MTs have. The price is reasonable, as far as US pricing goes(foreign market markup is ridiculous though), considering it is completely made in-house in the US. If you think it is overpriced, then there are many cool NEW unique design options from Ganzo and Roxon these days, for a third the cost. You just don't get the ultra modern design/style, all OHO no-fingernail function, LM brand, US build, or excellent warranty. But, hey, you saved a hundred bucks right?
Gerber and SOG still make pliers based MTs for a lot less money as well. They're just not going to be anything all that different to what you may already have.
Love your Vic Spirit and aren't much of a fan of LM? Maybe save the money for some more SwissTools/SAKs? That is what I'd do in that position. If I weren't big-time into MTs, I'd probably read this thread and move on to something else. I do remember the days when I was happy with a Vic Explorer and Gerber Pinchy. But, nowadays, I am always looking for special, unique, fidget-factor, and hopefully high-quality tools. The Free P2/P4 fits my current requirements for purchase.

Note: Sorry for any typos, run-on sentences, possible contradictory statements . I stayed up all night watching youtube videos and drinking coffee, while surfing MT.o.

Edit:

Hoping the future pocket clips for sale will be the same as the one that came on the P2. I went ahead and put the P2's clip on the P4. After the Surge challenge, the P4 is gonna get some hip time to see the extent of the possible steel dust issue at work.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I've noticed that you have a bit of a habit of refering to the Swisstool/Spirit in a negative way, that it's an old design, no replaceable cutters, no OHO knives and of course, the scissors on the Spirit ... But then again, your nickname is gerleatherberman, it isn't gervicleatherberinoxman (and that's probably a good thing, since that would be a pain in the ... to type  ).

Anyway, all of the above are personal opinions/preferences and it's not on me to convince you otherwise, but saying that the Spirit looks and feels a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, since the P4 came out ...?  If somebody said this to me before I bought my P4, I would've been extremly disappointed when I held it in my hands for the first time.  Even now, I was a bit dissapionted at first, since it just doesn't feel quite as sturdy as I expected, it actually felt a bit ... cheap.

Fit and finish is extremely good ... for a Leatherman. 

I mean, my Swisstools all score extremely good on fit and finish, but I wouldn't even mention this if I did a review on them since I'm so used to them being perfect.  Leatherman tools on the other hand ...  .  Let's just say that the older ones all had great fit and finish, but at one point Leatherman started to drop the ball more often than not ... That's also why I was so pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish on the "+" models, which I've stated here on numerous occasions (and now once more).  All of my "+" models (2 stainless Waves, one BO Wave and 2 BO Charges) came absolutely perfect, and I can say the same for my P4.  But ...this should be normal again for every Leatherman, just as it is for every Victorinox tool/SAK.  The Leatherman brand owes it to itself to bring back that level of quality, it's what we should expect from them, just as in the old days.

And having played around with the P4 for a couple of days now, I'm more and more under the impression that the Leatherman design team had a Swisstool present during one of their brain-storm meatings.  I mean, on some points the resemblance is quite stunning.

For example, the can opener.  Here's a pic from the P4, the Spirit and the Wave.  Which ones look more alike ?



Same can be said about the pry bar tool, if that isn't a lookalike from what you find on the Swisstool and the Spirit I don't know what is.  And I guess the flathead on the awl is only there because they thought it would be a bit too much to put in on the can opener (which would've been better, I mean, look at it ... how easy it would be to fit a small flat head on top of that without causing an issue while using the can opener).

And while the opening and closing of the pliers is fun, and it does sound a bit like the closing on the Swisstool/Spirit pliers, this is not achieved by mechanics as it is on the Swisstools, no, that's what the magnets are for.  When you put a rally exhaust on a Dacia Sandero, it will sound (more) like a rally car, but still, it won't be a real rally car...

The magnets are a solution for the handle problem on modern Leatherman tools.  On the old tools the handles closed with a nice click, and stayed closed (at least when they were new).  But on the last models of the previous model Wave for example, one of the handles would often "fall open" a bit when the tool was closed (I own a stainless and a BO one, and both have the same problem, tightening the screws on the plierhead fixed this, but then the outside tools would become hard to open).  Strangely enough, the older Waves (of the same, previous Wave version) don't have this problem, both of my 25th Anniversary Waves are just fine.

And you can see that they were having trouble with this, hence the small locking lever on the MUT, or that sliding lock thingy on the Signal.  If I don't slide that thing to the closed position, one of the handles will fall open on both my Signals, and even though these "locks" work just fine, it does require an action from the user (making the "problem" stand out a bit), in come the magnets, no more interaction from the user required, problem solved ...

Hope you guys can follow what I'm saying, it's late at night here, I've had an average of 4 hours sleep for the last 5 days (and same for the night to come), and it's hard to explain what you mean in a language that's not your own ...

I do want to point out that I DO NOT think the P4 is a bad tool, I really like it, it's fun to play with, it did everything what I wanted it to do up until now, and fit and finish is excellent.  But you won't hear me say that it makes the Spirit look any cheaper than it used to, that's pushing it a bit too far in my opinion.  But if others think it does, I respect that.  Just wanted to write down how I feel about that.

[gerleatherberman]

Difference of opinion is good. 

You point out my problems with the Spirit. But, there is a reason. The Spirit seems to be the only tool people are comparing the Free P to. Wouldn't make sense to compare it to the SOG PowerLock or Gerber Center-Drive.
A lot lf members have a noticeable bias towards Victorinox. I simply don't find misaligned handles, using only fingernails polished implements, slippery handles, and tiny cutters all that appealing. My opinion of course.
I own 4 SwissTools, so it is obvious I like them. I just don't like to talk something up that has been talked up to the point of being a beaten dead horse. Note that my list of issues with the P4 is longer than my pros. I think yoy you have an obvious bias towards Victorinox, but have I ever pointed that out before now? No. I respect some people can't get over the idea of "Swiss precision". Difference of opinion is great, but most of us have bias.

Edit:
Oh, look at this.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80374.msg1921127.html#msg1921127

[AimlessWanderer]

The only real reason to compare a LM Costly to a Vic Spirit is in terms of price and value for money - which is subjective anyway, as we all value things different based on our own needs and preferences. Mechanically, aesthetically, and in terms of production methods they are two totally different animals. However, if someone wants to buy a tool, and can only afford one, asking which will deliver best value is a valid question - but unfortunately the answer will differ from person to person.

[algernonramone]

This might be a dumb question, but does anyone know if an oil-based lubricant (like 3-in-1 oil or WD40) will damage the elastomer spring mechanism on these?

[gustophersmob]

Would anyone mind measuring the width of the P2 and P4?

[ZapWizard]

This might be a dumb question, but does anyone know if an oil-based lubricant (like 3-in-1 oil or WD40) will damage the elastomer spring mechanism on these?

When I took it apart, I found everything to be lubricated with a clear goop, no oil. I would expect that a silicone or teflon lubricant might work better.
I can't tell what material the elastomer is exactly. It is a very black rubber with a durometer similar to Bunta-N o-rings.

Would anyone mind measuring the width of the P2 and P4?

I don't have a P2. The P4 is 1.20" (30.6mm) not including the blade. The blade adds another 0.114" (3mm) to one side.

[gerleatherberman]

More comparisons to the P4:

Requirements:
Not another Leatherman - check.
Not another Victorinox - check.
All outboard tools - check.
All locking tools - check.
Similar weight class - check.
Currently in production - check.



Lineup:
Leatherman P4(of course) - 8.8oz
SOG PowerAccess Deluxe - 8.74oz
Gerber Truss - 8.35oz
Bear & Sons 156L - 9.1oz

[Blackbeard]

  those files

[Top-Gear-24]

Difference of opinion is good. 

You point out my problems with the Spirit. But, there is a reason. The Spirit seems to be the only tool people are comparing the Free P to. Wouldn't make sense to compare it to the SOG PowerLock or Gerber Center-Drive.
A lot lf members have a noticeable bias towards Victorinox. I simply don't find misaligned handles, using only fingernails polished implements, slippery handles, and tiny cutters all that appealing. My opinion of course.
I own 4 SwissTools, so it is obvious I like them. I just don't like to talk something up that has been talked up to the point of being a beaten dead horse. Note that my list of issues with the P4 is longer than my pros. I think yoy you have an obvious bias towards Victorinox, but have I ever pointed that out before now? No. I respect some people can't get over the idea of "Swiss precision". Difference of opinion is great, but most of us have bias.

Edit:
Oh, look at this.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80374.msg1921127.html#msg1921127

If I had a bias towards Victorinox I wouldn't say that, if I had to pick one tool, it would be the Swisstool or the Surge, than I wouldn't mention the Surge. Nor would I own more Waves alone  than Swisstools and Spirit's together...

I can honestly say that the value of my Leatherman collection is more than double the value of my Victorinox collection.

But that's all besides the point.  I'm happy you like your P2 and P4 as much as you do. I like my P4 as well, I guess that's the most important thing to remember, all the rest is, like you say, all personal preference. It's hard to compare tools while we might have very different jobs to use them for, or different laws in the countries/continents we live in.

Guess we're all a bit spoiled as well, with the wide variety of tools we get to choose from.  So there must be something good for every one of us, right  .

It wasn't my intention to offend you, just to be clear, sometimes it's hard to get certain nuances right in a language that's not your own. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Greetings,

Eric

[SirVicaLot]

  and i don‘t think he took it the wrong way. He is very enthusiastic of his new toy and that is great!

I am the same way every time i receive something new in the mail. There will always be different opinions and that is a good thing. That way we can argue about our favorite tools and spend time in this forum 

I hope i did not overstep my boundaries trying to explain you GLBM. If i did, i am sorry 

[Wspeed]

Great comparison pics GLBM 

[Aloha]

So where are we with these tools?  Has anyone who actually has them had a change of initial thoughts/opinions now they have them in hand? 

I continue to watch and read about them and for myself not changed much from my initial thoughts.  I am glad those who have them are happy.  I can see how comparisons will be made to other tools, fair enough.  The comparisons I was most interested in was against the Wave as that was WHO LM seemed to go after. 

Whether they can compete with the Spirit or Swisstool for me is neutral.  If they can great if they cannot great.

LM irked a lot of us or let me be clear, IRKED ME.  The droning on about this and that was not welcomed to me.  I was and am only interested in how well these tool stack up against their own line of tools. 

I am hopeful they ( LM ) is again making a quality MT that many of us appreciate.  Seems so.  I await some usage of these tools to see how well this pans out.       

[gerleatherberman]

If I had a bias towards Victorinox I wouldn't say that, if I had to pick one tool, it would be the Swisstool or the Surge, than I wouldn't mention the Surge. Nor would I own more Waves alone  than Swisstools and Spirit's together...

I can honestly say that the value of my Leatherman collection is more than double the value of my Victorinox collection.

But that's all besides the point.  I'm happy you like your P2 and P4 as much as you do. I like my P4 as well, I guess that's the most important thing to remember, all the rest is, like you say, all personal preference. It's hard to compare tools while we might have very different jobs to use them for, or different laws in the countries/continents we live in.

Guess we're all a bit spoiled as well, with the wide variety of tools we get to choose from.  So there must be something good for every one of us, right  .

It wasn't my intention to offend you, just to be clear, sometimes it's hard to get certain nuances right in a language that's not your own. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Greetings,

Eric

Oh my, please know I meant absolutely no disrespect, Eric. There are definitely no hard feelings. We're collectors, and as such, our feelings towards tools and brands are going to differ. I wish now I had done more to compare the P4 to other tools. You are right in thinking part of my reasoning about thinking the P4 is so good, is that I was blown away that Leatherman was able to achieve such a high standard of production. I'll do my best to be more objective from this point onwards, and I do apologize for being so crass about it. You're a very kind person and I regret my aggressive tone towards you. Thank you for the kind reply and understanding about it. 

We're definitely spoiled with MTs. But, ain't it nice to have so many choices? 

and i don‘t think he took it the wrong way. He is very enthusiastic of his new toy and that is great!

I am the same way every time i receive something new in the mail. There will always be different opinions and that is a good thing. That way we can argue about our favorite tools and spend time in this forum 

I hope i did not overstep my boundaries trying to explain you GLBM. If i did, i am sorry 

No overstepping at all and thank you for the kind words, SirVic!
You're absolutely correct. I get very enthusiastic about new toys. There is also a possibility I overlook shortcomings with some tools, just because I am impressed with other aspects of it. As mentioned above, I am sure a portion of my opinion towards the P series is, because I never expected LM to produce something that seems like it may have been very difficult to insure such a high level of QC on. Thank you for the kind reply, SirVic!

Great comparison pics GLBM 

Thank you, W!

So where are we with these tools?  Has anyone who actually has them had a change of initial thoughts/opinions now they have them in hand? 

I continue to watch and read about them and for myself not changed much from my initial thoughts.  I am glad those who have them are happy.  I can see how comparisons will be made to other tools, fair enough.  The comparisons I was most interested in was against the Wave as that was WHO LM seemed to go after. 

Whether they can compete with the Spirit or Swisstool for me is neutral.  If they can great if they cannot great.

LM irked a lot of us or let me be clear, IRKED ME.  The droning on about this and that was not welcomed to me.  I was and am only interested in how well these tool stack up against their own line of tools. 

I am hopeful they ( LM ) is again making a quality MT that many of us appreciate.  Seems so.  I await some usage of these tools to see how well this pans out.       

I must fervently agree. As mentioned above, it is very unfortunate that Leatherman chose to crap on the Wave to promote the P series. Lets hope LM takes steps to rectify this behavior in the future. Even Gerber doesn't trash their own products when aggressively promoting theirs.
The Surge challenge will be over soon and the P4 will be put to good use at my work.
Will definitely be more persistent in being more objective about the usage, as I have some preconceived worries about the magnets in my dirty, steel dusty, work environment.