Leatherman Free P2/P4 Club and Feedback Thread

[Raoul Octav]

@gerleatherberman good to know, seems a little to much of a hassle tough.
I wonder why LMN did not put some extra washers.
On one side they did, altough one is  missing, and on the other side they didn't put any.
Curtesy of SteveC, i altered the pic to stress the missing washers which would make the opening much smoother.

[Raoul Octav]

Who has an inside man to help me get a Pocket Clip, courtesy of LMN, as i have a P4 ?
Because, this is the response i got :
Good Morning,
I am happy you were able to get that P4 so quickly. When it comes to the pocket clip, as they are being sold on Leatherman.com now with the pocket clip, customers in the US and Canada, only, who have already purchased them are receiving them as a one time courtesy when they contact us for one.
Kind Regards,
 

[gerleatherberman]

What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.

Will post that in a bit. 

@gerleatherberman good to know, seems a little to much of a hassle tough.
I wonder why LMN did not put some extra washers.
On one side they did, altough one is  missing, and on the other side they didn't put any.
Curtesy of SteveC, i altered the pic to stress the missing washers which would make the opening much smoother.

Thanks, man!
It is a small hassle, but when not making a video, the magnet swap takes about 2 minutes, where a full break down and reassembly takes 5-8 minutes. The method I posted also reduces the possibility of any parts going rogue across the room(like the little washers and screws. 

[gerleatherberman]

What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.

[Aloha]

The more I see the blade the more I am digging the profile of it 

[Dutch_Tooler]

I pushed extremely hard on all of the tabs in my Ps and none of them broke and barely flexed. I think this is not going to be a common problem. The 420HC they used for the handles on the Ps is quite strong, even at the 'weak' areas.

Just checked on mine, next to no give on the tabs (although undated). May have been just a production fluke on that P2...

[gerleatherberman]

Just checked on mine, next to no give on the tabs (although undated). May have been just a production fluke on that P2...

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Very good.

The more I mess with the P4, the more I like it. And it isn't, because it is that great of a tool. I just really like the completely different execution of a useful MT.

[Mechanickal]

Hey good news TG!

LM Belgium never replied to my exact same question about the LE PST...
Nothing at all...

I think the LM branch here just sips coffee all day on the profits of the hard working folks in the USA.

[Top-Gear-24]

Hey good news TG!

LM Belgium never replied to my exact same question about the LE PST...
Nothing at all...

I think the LM branch here just sips coffee all day on the profits of the hard working folks in the USA.

I think we should take over ... 

[Mechanickal]

I think we should take over ... 

I think we'd rock at our job
Their job...

[powernoodle]

After a couple of days of light use:

Pros:

- well constructed
- main blade has a surprisingly solid, beefy feel
- pocket clip and nice sheath
- magnet and free-swinging handles
- plain edge blade, serrated blade, saw and scissors seem of good quality
- replaceable cutters, nice plier head
- long shank on phillips
- looks pretty nice
- smooth on the hand when using the pliers
- outside-opening tools.  Finally.

Cons:

- price; repeat this 32 times
- the deployment of the exterior tools seems very gimmicky and unnatural to me.   Whether pushing the thumb forward, sideways or toward the palm, it is difficult to deploy the tools and it hurts the thumb.  Its impossible to deploy the phillips driver (and whatever that thing is next to it) except by pushing the thumb forward, and even then it is pretty difficult.  Its not a deal-breaker, but its close.
- what is that thing next to the phillips?  Flat driver? Pry bar? Package opener?  Where the heck is the "package opener"? 
- no real 3D phillips
- the ruler has to be a prank; you can hear Timmy giggling if you try hard
- the file is teeny weeny, but at least its sharp and well-made

I would like a spring-loaded plier head, but this probably would reduce the strength of the head.

Until I received this, I thought that each tool - like the 2D phillips - was secured with a magnet.  I was wrong, but that's on me.  The two halves of the tool are secured with magnets.

I knew what I was getting into when I bought this, so no complaints.  The price and the tool deployment turn me off, but I had to have one just to satisfy my MT urge.  This MT seems to do every okay, and I'm going to carry it for the foreseeable future just to get a better feel for it.  I can work my way past the gimmicky tool deployment.  But I would not recommend this to anyone because of the exorbitant price and unnatural tool deployment, instead advocating the Wave, Rebar, Spirit, etc. at 50 - 70% of the cost.

[Syncop8r]

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Thanks for measuring that GLBM. 
I'm surprised though, it always looked to me as if it is much further on the Free than on other models. Perhaps it is just that the handles are thinner. 

[gerleatherberman]

After a couple of days of light use:

Pros:

- well constructed
- main blade has a surprisingly solid, beefy feel
- pocket clip and nice sheath
- magnet and free-swinging handles
- plain edge blade, serrated blade, saw and scissors seem of good quality
- replaceable cutters, nice plier head
- long shank on phillips
- looks pretty nice
- smooth on the hand when using the pliers
- outside-opening tools.  Finally.

Cons:

- price; repeat this 32 times
- the deployment of the exterior tools seems very gimmicky and unnatural to me.   Whether pushing the thumb forward, sideways or toward the palm, it is difficult to deploy the tools and it hurts the thumb.  Its impossible to deploy the phillips driver (and whatever that thing is next to it) except by pushing the thumb forward, and even then it is pretty difficult.  Its not a deal-breaker, but its close.
- what is that thing next to the phillips?  Flat driver? Pry bar? Package opener?  Where the heck is the "package opener"? 
- no real 3D phillips
- the ruler has to be a prank; you can hear Timmy giggling if you try hard
- the file is teeny weeny, but at least its sharp and well-made

I would like a spring-loaded plier head, but this probably would reduce the strength of the head.

Until I received this, I thought that each tool - like the 2D phillips - was secured with a magnet.  I was wrong, but that's on me.  The two halves of the tool are secured with magnets.

I knew what I was getting into when I bought this, so no complaints.  The price and the tool deployment turn me off, but I had to have one just to satisfy my MT urge.  This MT seems to do every okay, and I'm going to carry it for the foreseeable future just to get a better feel for it.  I can work my way past the gimmicky tool deployment.  But I would not recommend this to anyone because of the exorbitant price and unnatural tool deployment, instead advocating the Wave, Rebar, Spirit, etc. at 50 - 70% of the cost.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Great write up, Powernoodle! Thank you for taking the time to do that.

Will be looking forward to reading how the P4 handles your day-to-day MT needs.

[gerleatherberman]

Thanks for measuring that GLBM. 
I'm surprised though, it always looked to me as if it is much further on the Free than on other models. Perhaps it is just that the handles are thinner. 

You're quite welcome, Syncop8r!

I was a bit surprised as well. In fact, I set the calipers back to zero and took the measurement again to double check. It seems your suggestion of the handle geometry plays a role in the visuals.

[tommywp]

Hi everyone
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself

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This is a skeletool

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This one is a rebar

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This one is a wave

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This is a OHT

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Thanks 

Thanks for this! Have always found thickness to be the most important dimension when it comes to comfortable pocket carry and every millimeter counts. Ironically, it also seems to be the least reported on dimension.

[Raoul Octav]

Well, me again... With some history this time.
My P4, when it arrived, at inspection i found that i could squeze the scales and a tiny space could be seen on between the scales and pivots.
I was not happy with the deployment of the main blade and the saw. And... The scissor was really close to the pliers and depending on the opening it touched the pliers.
I took it apart and observed that on the 4 implements side LMN put washers at the springs, except on the saw side.
I put the "missing" washer and on that side everything was snug, tight and easy to open.
On the main blade side there are no washers around the springs, so i put 2, and now i have changed the 2 with 4.
Guess who doesn't have fingerprints on the right hand...
Now... Deployment of tools is much better than arrived, with the tool itself beeing more... Lets say tight.
Yet... Somehow i have accentuated the scissor problem, it touches the pliers. Any ideea is welcome

[Raoul Octav]

More pics.

[Raoul Octav]

...

[Vadim]

That little double bend in the sheet metal looks very similar to the Swisstool/Swisstool Spirit,
but on the Swisstool/Spirit it's a part of locking mechanism.

[Raoul Octav]

Me again,
Something isn't right.
I have taken my tool apart a dozen time.
To have the scissor not rub against the pliers i had to abort the extra washer thingy.
Also, i observed that the pivots  have to be inserted in the top scale, Not sit on it (you get it),
this to remove side play between the scales, and also side play in the implements,
yet side play will not be eradicated, and..in my case at least
this side play makes the saw and main blade real hard to open with one hand, saw can even touch the pliers, and in some cases the scissor too.
On the saw side there are washers, and a supplementary washer on the saw will help the ease of opening, Yet the washer needs to be large surface or at least the size of the oem washers( this i observed, to reduce flex/side play of the tools).
On the other hand
I used 2 types of lube, one motorcycle chain lube, the second some silicone based.
2-3 deployments of tools are smooth as hell than it starts to grind-rub, interestingly i fount it to be on the lock tab, with the end of the tools .
No problem with lube on the plier side, yet on the tools it starts to make a grind harshh sound, which is interesting as i can not explain it.
I have also observed that the main 4 tools , without lube, do not make this sound and are somehow easier to open than with lube/grease etc.
If the pivots are torqued tighter, the side play is reduced drastically, yet tools are a pain to open.
If they Torque is too less, there is sideplay and it's going to be hard to open saw and main blade(in my case, this is how the P4 came out of the factory )
An in between okeish case...i have not found yet,
I feel it is a design problem, as the handles are made of 2 parts, not one as Wave/rebar etc aaand the presence of the silicone based elastomer spring bushings whatsoever.
I believe someone has already pointed that out
Right now , it is a useless tool for me, as i can't get it to open and close the way i desire (saw, main blade and scissor, the rest are ok)
And the way i desire, is similar to Wave/Surge, on the main tools.

[Raoul Octav]

I have a hunch, when tightening the pivots, first thing to tighten is the tools pivot, and than leave the pliers pivot slightly loose, or barely tighten
So the tool pivot will keep all in place, and the pliers are just kept toghether.
Anyway, i'm open for ideeas

[gerleatherberman]

Only thing I can think of is, because of the "grinding", perhaps the half-moon recess in the lock tab is scratched or something. As far as lubrication goes, I use a thin gun oil on my MTs and usually don't have an issue. The thicker oil could be causing a "hydroplaning"(for lack of a better word) effect where the tool tangs are "floating" against eachother where the thicker oil has accumulated. Anyway, keep in mind I'm not an expert on lubrication, those are just some ideas that I hope will help.
Another disassembly, thorough cleaning, and application of a drying oil might be the way to go. I suspect LM used a drying oil at the factory, since I didn't see any oil residue in the tool pivots of the P2 and two P4s I received.

[Sam Lim]

I could very well be wrong, I would still think that with so many washers, you could be very well be messing with the alignment of that pivot post. Like I said, the pivot post needs to sit in the scale. In your pic earlier with that number of washer, the added thickness, I really do not think that it is the case. There may be no side to side movement due to the lock tab, the pivot may still be moving because the screw is sitting in the scale, rather than the pivot itself. I hope my explaination is understandable...  In any case, I really wish u can get it sorted out. It definitely is frustrating.

[Raoul Octav]

I swear i took it apart a hundred times
Free P4 beat me.
No succes.
I removed all extra washers, and no luck
I tried all sorts of arrangments of the tools... No luck. By the way 2 thick implements are same thikness as the 4, 1thick implement has thickness of 2 slimmer ones. Serated and main blade same thickness.
Interestingly one pivot is sligthly longer than the other.
On the saw side the extra washer helped with the opening and pivot still entered the top scale.
On saw side pivots enter almost fully the top scale due to saw reduced thickness, wich is the reason for the 3 oem washers.
I have slightly grinded the thicker scale washers on the scissor side, a hundred of a mm, should not make any difference. Anyway i used the scale washers from the other side, it does not compute.
On the scissor side, pivot enters just slightly in the scale.
I changed the pivots between them and somehow it looked fine(scissor not touching the pliers, tools opening somehow okeish) YET... The pliers would not want to close, one side remains in position and does not compress the elastomer spring and makes closing a pain. I changed sides with pliers, same problem, actually both handles would not close, i changed bushings between them, tested bushings in the hand(they compress, no alteration in composition).
Please make an experiment for me:
Open middle tools on the scissor side, than open main blade. Than open middle tools, and than scissor.
Compare main blade opening to this: open 3-5 times main blade. It should (mine has) stick and become harder to open.
Do the same comparison with scissor.
Opening to be performed with thumb and middle finger(for scissor), one hand opening.

[gerleatherberman]

Sorry, Raoul. Without having the tool in front of me, I am having a hard time picturing where the issue could be. And, unfortunately, there is the possibility you may have bent or malformed something in the pivot, tool stack and/or pliers engagement.

Perhaps you can contact Leatherman and see what they can do. Maybe they can fix it for a fee or something.

[Raoul Octav]

To be clear,
First mod:
 saw side... Improvement with extra washer, no problems.
Scissor side, no problems with 2 very thin wave washers, scissor almost touching the pliers.
Problems started when i changed the 2 wave washers with the brass one from the pics posted. On the scissor side as scissor touched the pliers.
From that point on i go from an issue to the next... And most consistent, regardin problems is on the scissor side.
No force was used, so no bending, i slightly grinded 2 scale thick washers, 0.1mm max combined... And as i said, i have changed washers from one side to the other to identify root cause of scissors toiching the pliers.
P4 behaved ok till i tried to put the brass washers... Maybe it is me... I'm kinda of a zombie due to lack of sleep, working and trying to put my P4 back in working condition, aka using it with one hand, easy, with no hard times(like a blade that blocks and cant open eith the thumb)

This is the first Leatherman that i cant reassembly the same as it was, it looks that

[gerleatherberman]

I wonder if the tool needs a new break in period with everything put back together tightly again? Wouldn't hurt to put it back the way that you wanted and just try using it a few weeks to see if it will break in.
Though, they come without needing a break in period from the factory, throwing off the configuration a bit with the ground washer, it may now need a break in period.

That's all I've got. Wish I could be more help, but the extent of my work on the P4 was merely swapping pieces and not modification of the OEM configuration. 

[gerleatherberman]

A little out and about after doing yard work.

[Raoul Octav]

Well, sorry for beeing such a crybaby, i fell you guys understand better.
Pliers closing was user problem(fatigue and expectations) , this morning i was able to close it fine.
Saw side is fine, no problems there.
Scissor side... WIP, i have to find the right arrangement so scissors dont touch pliers.
Regarding friction... I need to find a better lube.
I checked the videos i made and tried to remeber every impression... And... Every third consecutive time i tried to open main blade or saw it got somehow stuck and i gelped with the middle finger. Scissor and serrated i opened directly with middle finger and did not observed any issue, altough i helped with the thumb.

[Dutch_Tooler]

...By the way 2 thick implements are same thikness as the 4, 1thick implement has thickness of 2 slimmer ones. Serated and main blade same thickness.
Interestingly one pivot is sligthly longer than the other.

Hmmm... I've looked at mine and it would seem to me (to be confimed by measurement) that the implements in the block of 4 are not of equal thickness... the outermost ones are thicker than the central ones. Also on one handle there is a slight asymmetry which is not present on the other handle, as the blades (saw, PE, SE) and scissors are not of equal thickness either. But if you kept the original order on re-assembly that should not make any difference, I suspect. I must admit I am a bit hesitant to take it apart just for fun - there are many parts on this thing, more than I am used to on Waves and Rebars.

One thing I am sure will disappoint and deter most modders is the incredibly complex shape of the locking surfaces on the tangs (which also differs between the main blades and scissors on the one hand and the minor implements on the other ). This is not something one can easily reproduce and/or fit to existing implements from other multitools with a set of files and a Dremel. It also seems that the pivot lengths are a major constraining factor in the exact positioning of implements, more so than in e.g. the Rebar (probably down to the split handles). This makes the Free series far less amenable to modding by all except highly speSmurfpillsed toolmakers with sophisticated equipment. The question arises whether this is an intentional move, e.g. to forestall "warranty" replacements after modding...?