Briefly from the beach :93mm alox pivots are much harder than the brass based 91mm pivots. This would make a clean removal of the pivots, I.e. without damaging the scales, tools or liners almost impossible without a good quality drill press IMHO. A drill stand for a household electric drill will probably have too much wobble - at least mine did before I retired it.
Belt sander: not vital IMHO if you have a bench grinder, but nice to have. Proxxon sell a nice portable one.
Buy lots of spares for your carbide drills. Grind the inserts, if necessary, to the right size, this may be way off (e.g. 3.2 mm on a nominal 3 mm bit). But use these only for lo-rev drilling of hardened steel (no percussion ), not for pivots.
If you have a small lathe, making your own screw pivots becomes less of a rocket science. But 4 layers is not a problem for peened pivots (even 91mm brass - heck, I made my CyberChamp by peening brass pivots and this has 10 layers or so). I haven't peened any Alox models though, different pivot material, much stiffer.
Additional info: it could become necessary in some cases to make your own liners. This is what I did for a stiffer central (stainless steel) liner on my 8 (?) layer Alox Cobalt Deluxe Constructor. I believe normal liner thickness is 0.5 or 0.6 mm. Sheet shears and/or a jig saw with metal cutting blade may come in handy.
Ah, I see my comment regarding the carbide tipped drill bits was a bit unclear. I'll try again:First off you don't need these for the pivots, not even the nickel alloy ones of the 93mm aloxes; normal HSS bits will do for these. A centre punch and/or centering drill bit is nice for good positioning of the hole on the head.I believe the main end pivots on 93 km aloxes are 3 mm and the centre pivot 2.5. These are 2.5 and 2.2 mm for 91 mm models respectively. Don't use bigger bits, smaller bits might even be sufficient and will aid in avoiding damage to scales, liners etc.What I meant with the inserts applies to carbide tipped bits only, which you need for hardened tool implements e.g. for putting a 91 mm inline Phillips into a 93 mm alox, to widen its hole from 2.5 to 3 mm. The actual size of the hole you'd make with a "3 mm" carbide tipped bit is usually actually closer to 3.2 mm. In order to arrive at precisely 3 mm you need to carefully grind away some of the lateral, slightly protruding faces of the carbide steel insert that is located in the drill tip, e.g. with a bench grinder or Dremel. This needs to be symmetric or close to this, otherwise you'll get a wobbling drill bit, but this isn't overly critical as the drilling must be at low revs.Hope this helps.
Thank you for coming back in to explain! That's crystal clear! Though my space at the apartment is very limited, it looks like a drill press is necessary. Hopefully I could find a good one without incurring too much cost, I saw Syph worked with a brand called MasterCraft and looks decent to work with. The trouble here is not lack of options for tools, but often not with good quality. Anyhow, good day to you sir and thanks again! Meanwhile if anyone have any words of advise, please do feel free to share, I'm all ears!
+1 to drill press for drilling in metal. You'll save yourself drill bits, frustrations, time and blood pressure - it is almost a bargain! (And some stuff is just next to impossible without one).A little comment on making precise sized holes - normal drill bits tend to make holes a little bit off size wise, and often make slightly triangular holes in thin stock. Putting some sacrificial wood on both sides of thin metal tend to help.For precisely sized holes get a slightly undersize drill bit and a matching reamer for the size you want. Reamers in the sizes we talk about with SAKs are fairly inexpensive.
You're welcome, glad to be of help
Now just gonna start looking up good solid drill press...
For the sizes discussed here you might also want to consider (used) small lathes. Most have some way of sticking your very non-round piece to either the chuck or some milling attachment - either way will also work as a drill press. A small lathe will likely have less run out than any inexpensive drill press. (If you have a choice a collet setup will be more precise than a Jacobs chuck).Than again, there is precision and there is precision - for practical purposes it will likely be next to no difference between a perfect and a slightly off one. Just as a reference for perfect a free running sliding H7/F7 hole/shaft tolerance for 3mm is 0 to +0.01mm for the hole, and -0.006 to -0.016mm for the shaft. If you have little space, lots of patience, and feel a bit more exotic then you might want to go more look up DIY EDM (electro discharge machining). They will make a silly precise hole in anything conductive. Hardened or not makes no difference at all. (Please don't electrocute yourself or burn down the house).
In my research on tools, I have been focusing on hand power drill and drill press, and only seen some YT footage on mini lathe...but it does give me the feeling that it might be a hit and miss thing in finding a good mini-lathe.
To a layman like myself, I have a feeling it might be more difficult to get good at using the lathe than a simple drill press. However, I did read that people could bore threads out of brass rod for pivots...which sounds like a dream. Given my very limited knowledge and space, just don't know whether it might be an overkill to get one. Really gonna research hard on this one, even before thinking to get one.
It sounded like the 'collet' setup will hold the bit better than a 'jacob chuck' setup, is this also true for drill press?
Final paragraph just totally went over my head...I know what S Club 7 is, but I ain't gonna even pretend I know what H7/F7 is...
My impression is that the inexpensive ones from China is a bit hit and miss. That said most say usable if it works - apparently it helps to mount it on something stiff and sturdy. Personally I would look for a decent used US or European brand one - one the reasons being that the heap and accessories and tools that often come with a used one easily cost as much as the lathe itself. II see you are in Hong Kong (?) so I get the tight space thing - the IKEA in Hong Kong was the most compact one I've ever visited!:D If you have a tight space you might want to look into used watchmakers lathes - they are made for small stuff, and are quite delicate themselves. Be aware though that some of those don't have much power at all, and some even lack a normal toolholder.Used lathes are a bit hit and miss too, but a hit can be a real hit - many sellers are third-parties which have no idea what they are selling. A nice reference for machine tools is lathes.co.uk .The problem with a cheap drill press is that they will surely be decent at the press thing, but it might run a relatively big runout. For many tasks where these are used that doesn't matter much (wood), but for precise holes in metal that might be an issue. In particular if running carbide tools which really don't like shocks. A metal lathe on the other hand is made for a low runout and to handle metal level precision. And if you need other round parts anyway... (And while a lathe can be pushed into servise as a drill press, the other way around is usually not true). To make tiny threads, even with a lathe, the easiest solution is die and taps. Having a lathe helps to align and move things straight, but it is fairly easy to make a little jig and do it manually too. Just making a tight straight hole in something to fit either the material or tap will help a lot. That said threaded pivot will be weaker than a similar sized riveted one. Getting a lathe to make a few holes for a SAK is clearly overkill. Then again you might end up making more stuff or get a new hobby Yes. Most drill presses only use Jacobs chucks though. Again, it says something about the precision it is intended for. Mind you, I do think that precision will still do fine for a SAK. If in doubt do undersize and get a reamer Precision is a very deep and expensive rabbit hole, and it is important to know good enough. But if some collets happen to come with a used machine then great. Good collets tend to be expensive. H7/F7, and other various combinations like it, are tolerance standards for fitting parts together. Nothing is truly made to ideal measures so they help provide working tolerances. Importantly they also help to establish good solutions for various kinds of fits and uses. For instance some will want a hole to lock onto a shaft and not move or rotate afterwards. Some might want to be able to rotate and slide it tightly (like the H7/F7). Others might need to be able to easily disassemble and reassemble often. And so on. Anyway, it was just meant as an example of tolerances for a nice tight fit. (Thus practically speaking a gap between hole and shaft of some 0.005 to 0.02 mm will be tight but still rotate.
I think that's one thing I do envy of my friends in US and Europe, that many machine tools could be brought/shipped/traded at a relatively reasonable cost.
Watchmaker Lathe? Not that I am making anything big and needs powerful machine, but I figure even for a hobbyist/weekend warrior maybe it need to be a certain size to make it worth the money/space.
The link you gave is massive, I think it will be really intriguing for someone whom are serious about the craft.
I totally agree with the cheap drill press comment...but like Lathe, it is probably a hit/miss thing with Chinese brands. So far, I only see a Chinese brand called "West Lake" which has distributor locally and have good feedbacks from local DIYers. Here are some info about it:https://triple.com.hk/?s=WEST+LAKE&post_type=product
Well, you have nothing to envy me for sure. Nothing reasonable about shipping costs here.
The thing is though - pretty much any drill press makes wonder compared to freehand, and for SAK mods it should do fine.
I bow to your greater training and experience Vidar I hadn't thought about using the lathe as a drill press for instance and of course it could be used for that, given a good way of fixing the object to the sled... even with auto advance included for free That said, the more sophisticated, the better is of course true, but perhaps liquid cooling attachments (nozzles and recirc pumps) is pushing the needs beyond those needed for DIY in the SAK and multitool area. And at the precision we are talking about, a Jacobs chuck will do the job admirably and collets will not be strictly necessary IMHO. Depends a bit on how much more you plan to possibly do in future, I guess...Sourcing sufficiently precise basic machinery is a real concern, I can see that, especially in the smaller sizes for DIY and smaller workshops. My lathe is an Austrian Emco Compact 5 (alas without the hard to get milling attachment) which should suit DIY needs but is no.longer available new.
Easy, at least for the M2 I use. Drill 3mm or 2.5 mm brass stock to nominally 1.6 mm (1.5 will work too) in a lathe at one end (for accuracy use a centering drill first), cut off at desired length, reverse and put in chuck, drill other end, tap M2 (for brass and good screw retention just using the #1 tap will do; you can drive the chuck and hold the tap holder if you feel brave enough), reverse, tap M2 first end, ready. Sequence may vary slightly.
That said, the more sophisticated, the better is of course true, but perhaps liquid cooling attachments (nozzles and recirc pumps) is pushing the needs beyond those needed for DIY in the SAK and multitool area. And at the precision we are talking about, a Jacobs chuck will do the job admirably and collets will not be strictly necessary IMHO. Depends a bit on how much more you plan to possibly do in future, I guess...
Sourcing sufficiently precise basic machinery is a real concern, I can see that, especially in the smaller sizes for DIY and smaller workshops. My lathe is an Austrian Emco Compact 5 (alas without the hard to get milling attachment) which should suit DIY needs but is no.longer available new.
That's a comforting thought...I think as a hobbyist and a total newbie, it might be prudent to grow my skill before acquiring heavy tools I have yet idea how to make good use of. And a big thank you for sharing all those info, this experience will be of great reference down the line. [size=78%] [/size]
Vidat and Dutch_Tooler, come to think about it, since you guys have much more experience in lathe and all things machine, how difficult is it to make suitable M2 and M1.5 screw pivots for 93mm?
I bow to your greater training and experience Vidar
As to precision, even drilling and tapping slightly off-axis isn't going to break the bank as long as you don't exaggerate.
Come to think of it there might be something like a maker space in Hong Kong? Some of those places seem to have lots of equipment people can use. Probably also with some people who knows who to use it
The tapping of pivot sounds rather intense, and am not sure it is way beyond me...maybe someday, if I got hooked so deep that I got a mini lathe, even then I am not sure it will be easy to do.
So if I got a decent enough drill press, sounded like drilling out all the tools in the 93mm tools and using the 1/8 pivots from knifekits.com is the way to go...or if I am lucky enough, finding someone who could make those tapped pivots and sell it.
On that latter note, I have bad experiences with pre-made holes... better drill yourself
Do you want to talk about it? The holes of an EDM electrode should be exactly in the center throughout. Edit: Just curious of the issues? Come to think about I might have some EDM electrodes around here somewhere. Probably not 3mm though.
Donations
Community Links
