Venting and thinking about Urban Survival Kit/videos

[nate j]

Lots of things to think about/address here...

With regard to keeping water bottles in vehicles, I have done this for a number of years, with only minimal problems.  Only a very few instances of leakage, and I'm pretty sure they were all due to blunt force trauma to the bottles due to my carelessness.  They do sometimes freeze in the winter, but that is why I also have a few cans of sterno and a stainless steel cup.

In general, the smart move is to stay with the vehicle and wait for rescue, as it provides some shelter from the elements, is much easier for rescuers to spot, and should be stocked with more/better survival gear than one could easily carry.  This is even more true in limited visibility or white-out conditions.  Unless one is absolutely confident in the location of and distance to help, as well as one's physical and navigational ability to make that trek, staying with the vehicle is almost always the better option, unless the vehicle is located somewhere hidden or otherwise untenable.

Thinking about it in terms of the rule of threes:

• Three minutes without oxygen:  If waiting in your car for extended period, be sure to keep a window partially open.
• Three hours without shelter:  A vehicle provides some shelter against wind and precipitation, but is not well-insulated thermally.  Winter coat, hat, gloves, boots, blankets, and winter sleeping bag may be in order.  Do NOT rely on running your vehicle's heater to avoid hypothermia; your vehicle may be disabled, or you may run out of fuel.
• Three days without water:  I think it makes sense to carry water in your vehicle (in summer as well as winter), as well as the means to melt it if it ends up frozen.
• Three weeks without food:  Odds of not being rescued or self-rescuing within three weeks seem pretty slim.  I don't keep food in my vehicles.

[comis]

Lots of things to think about/address here...

With regard to keeping water bottles in vehicles, I have done this for a number of years, with only minimal problems.  Only a very few instances of leakage, and I'm pretty sure they were all due to blunt force trauma to the bottles due to my carelessness.  They do sometimes freeze in the winter, but that is why I also have a few cans of sterno and a stainless steel cup.

In general, the smart move is to stay with the vehicle and wait for rescue, as it provides some shelter from the elements, is much easier for rescuers to spot, and should be stocked with more/better survival gear than one could easily carry.  This is even more true in limited visibility or white-out conditions.  Unless one is absolutely confident in the location of and distance to help, as well as one's physical and navigational ability to make that trek, staying with the vehicle is almost always the better option, unless the vehicle is located somewhere hidden or otherwise untenable.

Thinking about it in terms of the rule of threes:

• Three minutes without oxygen:  If waiting in your car for extended period, be sure to keep a window partially open.
• Three hours without shelter:  A vehicle provides some shelter against wind and precipitation, but is not well-insulated thermally.  Winter coat, hat, gloves, boots, blankets, and winter sleeping bag may be in order.  Do NOT rely on running your vehicle's heater to avoid hypothermia; your vehicle may be disabled, or you may run out of fuel.
• Three days without water:  I think it makes sense to carry water in your vehicle (in summer as well as winter), as well as the means to melt it if it ends up frozen.
• Three weeks without food:  Odds of not being rescued or self-rescuing within three weeks seem pretty slim.  I don't keep food in my vehicles.

Just to add in a few more cents:

I too do agree staying in/near the vehicle is easier for rescuer to find you, especially in white-out condition. 

Putting out signs(some cars have emergency road sign inside the trunk)/emergency light/signal light are also important to tell people to get help or drive around you cautiously.  If you skid out at a certain section on the road and end up/stuck at where you are, chances are more people will skid out at the same location and might even bump into you.  Putting up the emergency sign/light/some kind of signal might help slow the traffic down and prevent more collision.  Wear seat belt while inside car might be a good idea too.

[Vidar]

I don't really consider being stuck on a road in a whiteout much of a crises - that is as long as you have proper clothes with you somewhere. There is snow everywhere so you are not going to die from thirst, and you can do without food for much longer than a snowstorm lasts. Stay with the car, then wait for the weather to calm down and then eventually someone will come around to clear and open the road again. Thinking back I can't remember any case where that has taken more than a day - usually it is within hours. In the rare cases they can't actually open the road within a reasonable time they shift focus to evacuating everyone stuck on the road through other means - then it is more of a resque operation using tracked vehicles or snow mobiles. Success rate so far has been 100%. The milage in your country might vary.

Of course if you don't have proper clothes, sleeping bags or similar then keeping hot even for hours might become an issue. As Nate says, the heater can't really be depended upon. You might run out of fuel, or get worried about exhaust getting in. Around here though freezing in the car is rarely a serious problem. I can only remember one case where people froze to death in their car - they broke open a closed road (thus noone expected them to be there), got stuck and didn't have proper clothes.

In comparison there are many more cases of people getting hurt or killed when waiting in the car or by the car on the road. Or when people leave the car to start walking. By focusing on the obvious cold we might actually focus on the lesser danger at the expense of a more probable one. Hence my thinking of maybe changing strategy to bring some means to be able to stay close to the car but not in it - that seems to be the lesson of experience so far. (Indeed that very strategy saved someone around here last winter - he had a car malfunction, and decided to get out of the car and off the road to wait. While he was waiting his car got crushed by some other vehicle).

If the weather permits one should indeed put out warning signs or beakers. In a proper whiteout though you don't want to leave your car for far enough to give a decent warning distance. Chances are very high you will not find your way back to the car. The warnings are also likely to blow off or get snowed in very quickly. (That said they might still have some real use as people hitting them might get a clue something is going on). But again, always when weather permits - also when coming across others accidents. It is so easy to forget though in the heat of things.

[Scorpion Regent]

Late to the topic, but one still worthy of posting to.  I skimmed through the first page.  I think Seamonster has the right idea.  I have a coat, a hat, and overnight bag in my truck.   I camp often, so some of that equipment stays in the truck.  I also have tools and materials in the truck. Do I have a "bug out bag" no, but I can make do.
Too many people out there are putting together these collections of cool stuff that they think will make it possible for them to live their own personal disaster movie.  Skills are what make the real difference.

[ElevenBlade]

For a really urban (city) survival kit, I had looked at videos and sites about the "Gray Man Bag" concept.  I'd fairly quickly dismissed the idea.  Some suggest going all out (carrying a gas mask and hard hat), whereas others dont suggest much other than a tactical pen and to "act natural".

Now I'm seeing things like the INCH bag (I'm Never Coming Home). Too many potential scenarios... Not enough practicality. 

I keep a "Get Home Bag" in my car, which contains... in a nutshell... gear for me to stay in place - in the most run-down of hotels, or even in the building at work - for a few days.  That includes clothes, toiletries, nonperishable food, water, and the MT of choice for this situation (you know you were going to ask) a Gerber MP600.  I have been in this situation for 5 days, so...

For that reason, I researched the Gray Man Bag concept and came up empty.

In a sense, the survival kit is like a multitool.  On this forum we have users (i.e. me) that have so many multitools that they each become single-use tools.  ... MP600 in the car, LM Wave for clipping guitar strings, SAK OHT for cutting branches, Champion for food prep, Micra for opening packets, but a Soldier for opening boxes...
   If you have a kit for multiple situations, who knows if it will work in the one you find yourself in. 

There's nothing wrong with our hobby, but as others have said... its a matter of skill and understanding a few counterintuitive concepts that will save your life.  Concepts such as sheltering in place, drinking water when available rather than rationing it, being aware of and avoiding things like paradoxical undressing in hypothermia.

[ElevenBlade]

 

Because of the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, the interwebs are a bit.. shall we say... distracted.  I read one of those unsolicited "what to keep in your emergency kit" pages that came up in my daily newsfeed with the intention of advising my non-MTo, non-outdoorsy family.

Besides the usual - first aid kit, copies of important documents, etc, they list a multitool.  They go on to say that "every expert" they talked to "unanimously" recommended a Leatherman, though they picked different models.  Is Leatherman paying these experts to promote them?   

These things are supposed to be geared towards everyone.  If you gave my mother a Leatherman she wouldn't know what to do with it.  She'd be able to figure out a small swiss army knife though...

Is Leatherman really that good?  What am I missing?  Pliers I guess....

[comis]

Because of the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, the interwebs are a bit.. shall we say... distracted.  I read one of those unsolicited "what to keep in your emergency kit" pages that came up in my daily newsfeed with the intention of advising my non-MTo, non-outdoorsy family.

Besides the usual - first aid kit, copies of important documents, etc, they list a multitool.  They go on to say that "every expert" they talked to "unanimously" recommended a Leatherman, though they picked different models.  Is Leatherman paying these experts to promote them?   

These things are supposed to be geared towards everyone.  If you gave my mother a Leatherman she wouldn't know what to do with it.  She'd be able to figure out a small swiss army knife though...

Is Leatherman really that good?  What am I missing?  Pliers I guess....

Doesn't that make you think twice about everything they say?

I have seen all these different 'expert' youtube persona giving all kind of advises for the past few weeks.  The matter of the truth is no matter what kind of gears or prepping they advise, the most important thing right now is to try to stay home as much as possible and keep social distancing.  One could literally hoard everything they find and turn his/her house into a warehouse, but still get infected without paying attention, and ended up even hurting family they love.

Personally, I would suggest to rub in soap for 30 seconds and wash hands, avoid crowded places, keep social distancing and stay home as much as possible.  These will help flatten the 'curve' and give every country a chance to less likely overload the hospital system and buy everyone time to find cure/develop vaccine.

[nate j]

Is Leatherman paying these experts to promote them?

Probably not.  An ethical source (and I'm willing to give most folks the benefit of the doubt on this, until they prove me wrong) would have revealed a sponsorship or other business relationship that is or might appear to be a conflict of interest.

Is Leatherman really that good?  What am I missing?  Pliers I guess....

I think Leatherman generally makes quality tools, though they rust a bit too easily for my taste.

I do believe that, if one is looking for a single MT to be part of an emergency kit, having a heavy duty one with pliers and wire-cutters makes the most sense.  This is why I have Swisstools in my emergency kits.

Without seeing the article or knowing who the "experts" were, Leatherman is certainly the best-known maker of pliers-based MTs in the US, and I'm inclined to think that perhaps Leatherman is the only maker of decent quality MTs with which these "experts" were familiar.

[SirVicaLot]

   What am I missing?  Pliers I guess....

Many Americans love American-made products. They only gonna buy from American companies. So of course the people that make those videos know that, and will only recommend such a product. Doesn’t matter that there might be a better tool for the job. And between Gerber and LM it‘s an easy choice.

[magentus]

A lot of it is just an excuse for folks to buy bushcrafting stuff they don't need. 

I think the key to putting together a plan, and necessary kit, isn't about having all the answers. It's about asking the right questions. Once you ask the right questions, the answers take care of themselves 

[magentus]

I call mine the "Bag 'o' Stuff' and here are the contents:

1. Knife - a high quality Pakistan knife I found at a gas station
2. Pez dispenser filled with Xanax so I don't panic
3. 551 cord - it is a wee bit stronger than regular 550 cord
4. Cat treats - so I can bribe my way into any cat-lady house in the country
5. G string - for my guitar
6. Glow in the dark bobble-head from a Frankenberry box - to cut through the darkest night
7. 2 sticks - for starting fires
8. Odd Job's hat - for hunting game
9. Water de-purifier tablets - so I can mess up everyone else's water...making my water more valuable
10. Viewmaster - To keep myself entertained and keep morale high

All of these items are packed in a double lined plastic Walmart bag.

[ElevenBlade]

Many Americans love American-made products. They only gonna buy from American companies. So of course the people that make those videos know that, and will only recommend such a product. Doesn’t matter that there might be a better tool for the job. And between Gerber and LM it‘s an easy choice.

Could be. but Momma ElevenBlade can't work a Gerber either.

That mentality without the proper research is unfortunate, really.  With the global economy the way it is, if you want to support American workers you should buy a Honda Odyssey.  The folks in Alabama will thank you for your support!  Meanwhile in South Korea, the Chevy Bolt is coming to life. 

One might argue that buying from a local small business, rather than a large corporation is more important than buying from a particular country.  But I digress...

[SirVicaLot]

I hear ya. Almost everybody has the world at their fingertips and the knowledge of the human race is only a few clicks away. Yet people choose to keep living in darkness. Chevies are build in the US and Honda somewhere in Asia...much easier that way. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Many Americans love American-made products. They only gonna buy from American companies. So of course the people that make those videos know that, and will only recommend such a product. Doesn’t matter that there might be a better tool for the job. And between Gerber and LM it‘s an easy choice.

 Yup, I'd agree with that logic - except the easy choice between Gerber and LM though 

(I think I have roughly equal quantities of each)

One might argue that buying from a local small business, rather than a large corporation is more important than buying from a particular country.  But I digress...

Agreed! 

[Aloha]

One might argue that buying from a local small business, rather than a large corporation is more important than buying from a particular country.  But I digress...

 

People watch the local small business' disappear then scream the only choice is large corporate owned stores  .   

[Alan K.]

Didn't see the same articles or videos so I don't know specifically what has been recommended.  I think it is most likely a case of the most common tool also being the most recommended or it could be that the they are using the term "Leatherman" or "Leatherman tool" in the generic sense (all multitools are Leathermans) the same way that all facial tissues are "Kleenex" when we all know it's just one company's brand name. Besides, we all know better than these so called experts what the best multi tool is.

[Shuya]

Besides, we all know better than these so called experts what the best multi tool is.

We dont know it.
Ask 10 MTOs whats the best Tool and you will get a list of at least 11 with the additional question "what for".
We dont know. 

[AimlessWanderer]

We dont know it.
Ask 10 MTOs whats the best Tool and you will get a list of at least 11 with the additional question "what for".
We dont know. 

 

At least we'll be able to give well thought out reasons why those 12 are recommended. Those 14 will the ones selected by people across the world, in many industries, who've tried every format in every brand before settling on just those 16. The same goes for the multitude of Swiss knife suggestions to accompany them, although some will still be inclined to just carry of to 24 pliers bas... we're gonna need a bigger box....

[SirVicaLot]

 

And don‘t forget some of those awlsome no-name brands. They should also be mentioned when recommending those 32 MTs... 

[ElevenBlade]

Didn't see the same articles or videos so I don't know specifically what has been recommended.  I think it is most likely a case of the most common tool also being the most recommended or it could be that the they are using the term "Leatherman" or "Leatherman tool" in the generic sense (all multitools are Leathermans) the same way that all facial tissues are "Kleenex" when we all know it's just one company's brand name. Besides, we all know better than these so called experts what the best multi tool is.

The one that got me thinking had recommended the Wave iirc, but also the Signal  at which point I became highly skeptical. 

[Aloha]

I wonder how many will transition from bags of every type to more of a prepper mentality? 

$1000s of dollars of bug out gear vs items for your home. 

[ElevenBlade]

I wonder how many will transition from bags of every type to more of a prepper mentality? 

$1000s of dollars of bug out gear vs items for your home.

Very interesting - It seems that's been the way to go all along really.  I also wonder if the mentality of the prepper will change.  I also wonder how the people on the TV show of the same name are doing.  Maybe they can do a follow up in a few years. 

It apparently takes something like a pandemic to point out the obvious practicality of this vs zombie apocalypse mentality.  The FEMA and Red Cross websites have lists of items for home survival kits that they've always advised for everyone (I looked at those instead of random kit contents lists to answer my own question).

When something happens, you really don't have a place to "bug out" to unless you happen to own a bunker somewhere away from home.  In that case, your "get home bag" would be enough.

It always has, and always will make the most sense to shelter in place.  I have had a get home bag since after (not before) Hurricane Sandy  , and I'll still keep it stocked. 

Back to the issue that got me riled up in the first place - the FEMA website recommends pliers (not a multitool per se) so you can turn off utilities if needed. Red Cross recommends a multi-tool.  So that answers that question - Momma Elevenblade is going to need to learn to use a Swisstool Spirit. 

I have a Gerber MP600 in my kit. 

[Aloha]

For some there will be a need to have a bag or whatever ready to leave your home.  I'm in a wild fire state so there is always a chance.  I've always wondered where folks are bugging out to?  If they have a spare shelter they'd still need to stock it. 

Our gas shut off is best shut off using channel lock pliers.  Our water shut off utilizes a lever.  Our first priority when moving to our current home ( 2 years now ) was setting up our items in the even of shelter in place.  Our goal is/was 6 months.  Our biggest hurdle is/was water should the city cut us off. 

We have done fairly well with supplies however the recent hoarding of certain items has demonstrated certain gaps in our preparations.  I don't think I'll try to prep farther out than 6 months.  We stretched a biscuit recipe just to see how it would be from 6 to 12 pcs.  We've made tortillas, unleavened breads, pizza dough, and will do other items. 

Its been a "nice" real life opportunity to test my family.  We have supplies BUT I've always been a fan of drilling/testing ideas.  If we don't practice then its all theory IMO. 

I've been making simple heartier dishes that stretch our foods.  I've asked kids to limit snacking and reach for perishables and left overs first.  Its been the perfect time to see how well my family responds.  So far I couldn't be happier with them.  Now let me be perfectly honest.  They did crave outside foods.  Our restaurants are open for dine out so they went for food from the Golden Arches  . 

[comis]

It apparently takes something like a pandemic to point out the obvious practicality of this vs zombie apocalypse mentality.  The FEMA and Red Cross websites have lists of items for home survival kits that they've always advised for everyone (I looked at those instead of random kit contents lists to answer my own question).

Very true.

One scenario about this pandemic is should you unfortunately have a family member contracted the virus, and every hospitals around you have been overloaded and one may need to 'ride it out' within his/her home.  It may be wise to think ahead what kind of preparation can be done in that scenario.

I have a relative living in another country where she just flew back from oversea.  And after talking to her family, I just realized most people have no idea what is needed in a 'quarantine' scenario for this pandemic, and doing it halfheartedly may as well be not doing it.

For some there will be a need to have a bag or whatever ready to leave your home.  I'm in a wild fire state so there is always a chance.  I've always wondered where folks are bugging out to?  If they have a spare shelter they'd still need to stock it. 

Our gas shut off is best shut off using channel lock pliers.  Our water shut off utilizes a lever.  Our first priority when moving to our current home ( 2 years now ) was setting up our items in the even of shelter in place.  Our goal is/was 6 months.  Our biggest hurdle is/was water should the city cut us off. 

We have done fairly well with supplies however the recent hoarding of certain items has demonstrated certain gaps in our preparations.  I don't think I'll try to prep farther out than 6 months.  We stretched a biscuit recipe just to see how it would be from 6 to 12 pcs.  We've made tortillas, unleavened breads, pizza dough, and will do other items. 

Its been a "nice" real life opportunity to test my family.  We have supplies BUT I've always been a fan of drilling/testing ideas.  If we don't practice then its all theory IMO. 

I've been making simple heartier dishes that stretch our foods.  I've asked kids to limit snacking and reach for perishables and left overs first.  Its been the perfect time to see how well my family responds.  So far I couldn't be happier with them.  Now let me be perfectly honest.  They did crave outside foods.  Our restaurants are open for dine out so they went for food from the Golden Arches  . 

That's pretty amazing you have 6 months of supplies, and it's probably not easy to maintain.  I think one of the difficult parts for a family is boredom, and it would be nice to have something that could keep them somewhat entertained for months indoor.

[Aloha]

Comis.  Our goal was 6 months however we are at about 3 months prepped plus our daily use items.  I bet we could stretch to 5 months  .   

My kids are older as are my partners.  We are lucky in that respect I think  .  Hers is a gamer so he's happy as a clam in mud.  My youngest is doing school work ( college ) so she's bee busy. 

   
       

[Shuya]

Hijacking this toppic 
 
Since my family grows and the season gets darker and colder Ive put together a kit for my backpack in case something turns out different than exspected.
Its simply a plastic lunch box thrown into the backpack.

Inside there are:
- single use ponchos for each person
- small roll of tape, string (natural fibre and paracord), and wire for repairs
- single use heater pads (handfull, The Mrs. and the small ones almost always have cold hands and feet)
- one space blanket
- two 1l ziplock bags
- some water purification tablets
- 3...4 energy bars.
- set of spare batteries for headlamp
- LM PS4 for the small repairs of daughters stuff, in case I dont have anything else with me
- 1 tealight, handfull of stormproof matches
- 1 red and 1 white large snaplight

Besides that, I always have a headlight with fresh batteries, a good, full first aid kit and some toilet paper.

This is not a survival kit like most people carry.
But lets face it, I live in central europe, most emergencies I can encounter is to get wet when I didnt check the forecast, lose the time and face darkness, or have other highly risky things happen like the kids are hungry on the way home and whining the whole time. Or we have to sit out a storm somewhere beneath an overhang.

Not intending to create a new civilization, hunt or trap. One can easily survive a few days when managing to stay dry, warm and hydrated.

[Vidar]

- single use heater pads (handfull, The Mrs. and the small ones almost always have cold hands and feet)

Might I alternatively suggest thick wool socks (in addition to regular ones) and mittens? There are also heating pads that can be used multiple times by boiling or microwaving them after use.

I got a bag in the car too during winter. It is mostly filled with warm, wind- and waterproof clothes and matching boots. In addition some strong rope, shovel, headlight, knife, a few tools, a few liters of gasoline, motor oil, a chocolate and a small first aid kit. I should probably add a proper first aid kit and a sleeping bag. Earlier I used to have a chain hoist as well and that found some use too. I should put it back. And I'm considering adding a fire extinguisher, and possibly a big breaking bar or hydraulic spreader.

[Shuya]

I got some of those reuseable gel-pads at home.
For travel, the single use ones are way better. Lighter, providing longer lasting heat in smaller package. They are expensive but perfect for the occasional "emergency" use on tour.

At home I either have hot water bottles or so called grain pillows that can be heated in the microwave.

[Max Stone]

EMZ recently posted the contents of a Dutch army survival pack...

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18395.msg2178082.html#msg2178082

[comis]

Hijacking this toppic 
 
Since my family grows and the season gets darker and colder Ive put together a kit for my backpack in case something turns out different than exspected.
Its simply a plastic lunch box thrown into the backpack.

Inside there are:
- single use ponchos for each person
- small roll of tape, string (natural fibre and paracord), and wire for repairs
- single use heater pads (handfull, The Mrs. and the small ones almost always have cold hands and feet)
- one space blanket
- two 1l ziplock bags
- some water purification tablets
- 3...4 energy bars.
- set of spare batteries for headlamp
- LM PS4 for the small repairs of daughters stuff, in case I dont have anything else with me
- 1 tealight, handfull of stormproof matches
- 1 red and 1 white large snaplight

Besides that, I always have a headlight with fresh batteries, a good, full first aid kit and some toilet paper.

This is not a survival kit like most people carry.
But lets face it, I live in central europe, most emergencies I can encounter is to get wet when I didnt check the forecast, lose the time and face darkness, or have other highly risky things happen like the kids are hungry on the way home and whining the whole time. Or we have to sit out a storm somewhere beneath an overhang.

Not intending to create a new civilization, hunt or trap. One can easily survive a few days when managing to stay dry, warm and hydrated.

I think the last line is the punchline, my main driving philosophy for anything 'outdoor survival' has always been: 1) Someone knows you need rescue and where to look for you   2) A way to stay well hydrated, secured and reasonably well until rescue

I got some of those reuseable gel-pads at home.
For travel, the single use ones are way better. Lighter, providing longer lasting heat in smaller package. They are expensive but perfect for the occasional "emergency" use on tour.

At home I either have hot water bottles or so called grain pillows that can be heated in the microwave.

I think 'heating pad' is a 'double edged sword'.  I'm into outdoor photography and part of my travel does involve staying at remote outdoor location, in freezing temperature for long hours.  One thing I learnt is that if I don't dress properly and need any 'warmer' or 'self heating pad', I probably shouldn't be there in the first place.  Don't get me wrong, they are glorious when you want to travel light in total urban setting, but they are just not long lasting enough to be counted on for winter 'survival' use.

EMZ recently posted the contents of a Dutch army survival pack...

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18395.msg2178082.html#msg2178082

There are some quality items in there.  I always do appreciate the items/kit contents from BestGlide/Adventure Survival Equipment, their kits usually have more quality items than most on the market.