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FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration

us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #30 on: June 02, 2019, 05:21:50 AM
These are the ones I have in my collection.




Beautiful examples, Chako! Thank you for sharing. :cheers:

The Hawk is one I've never even seen a photo of before, so that is quite cool. Your FlipGrip looks mint! :like:
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ca Offline Chako

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #31 on: June 02, 2019, 05:24:19 AM
 :salute:
A little Leatherman information.

Leatherman series articles


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #32 on: June 02, 2019, 09:21:17 AM
Here are some shots of the FlipGrip and the Sheffield together. Looks are deceiving, as the Sheffield isn't good at all, but the photos make it look o.k(it is so bad, the Sheffield tool doesn't even have the wire stripping holes in the pliers formed/sharpened, but instead are "crimpers" now, since making them strippers would be to hard..lol). :facepalm:





___________________________

And for the discussion about restoration with Vidar:

Here is a general example of two types of restoration. 1. Left is an English adjustable wrench wire wheeled and cleaned to the point it looks brand new(basically). 2. Right is an American adjustable wrench lightly wire wheeled and cleaned/oiled to retain patina and eliminate surface rust.
I like both results, but a resto like #1 would take 4hrs+ on the large adjustable wrench(will picture later). :ahhh
Resto #2 would take about an hour amd will probably look better than a full wire wheel polish. :)

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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #33 on: June 02, 2019, 11:01:03 AM
The FlipGrip certainly seems like someone put some proper thought and effort into it. They look so much better than the el cheapo, and unlike that latter I would except them to actually work as intended. :tu:

Here is a general example of two types of restoration. 1. Left is an English adjustable wrench wire wheeled and cleaned to the point it looks brand new(basically). 2. Right is an American adjustable wrench lightly wire wheeled and cleaned/oiled to retain patina and eliminate surface rust.
I like both results, but a resto like #1 would take 4hrs+ on the large adjustable wrench(will picture later). :ahhh
Resto #2 would take about an hour amd will probably look better than a full wire wheel polish. :)

Personally I would prefer Resto #2. The first one looses something in the process for me.

I don't do resto on hand tools, but I do remove rust as such from time to time. Usually on machine tools or parts. (And I got my two 3.5 square meter cast iron work tables coming up later - I expect that to be some work, especially as grinding is not an option).

For that kind of work the patina, lack of it, or general look afterwards isn't really important. And I typically use acids to remove rust. If there are lots and lots of rust then I do some rough mechanical brushing followed by hydrochloric acid to eat away the worst. I make sure to stop well before it starts eating much of the actual metal. Then rinse and place in phosphorous acid. That does two things - it converts the rust to black iron which tends to drop off, or if left long enough in there it will make a blackish patina on the metal. Some kind of light phosphating treatment I assume. Anyway, somewhere between removing the rust and having an all black surface there is sometimes a nice patina which tends to follow old rust spots - and thus might look authentic. It isn't a point with machine stuff at all, but for hand tool restauration it might give a nice look if the timing is right.

I think I might give it a try a later point with some other rusty tool - something salvageable though next time.   
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #34 on: June 02, 2019, 11:29:04 AM
The FlipGrip certainly seems like someone put some proper thought and effort into it. They look so much better than the el cheapo, and unlike that latter I would except them to actually work as intended. :tu:

Personally I would prefer Resto #2. The first one looses something in the process for me.

I don't do resto on hand tools, but I do remove rust as such from time to time. Usually on machine tools or parts. (And I got my two 3.5 square meter cast iron work tables coming up later - I expect that to be some work, especially as grinding is not an option).

For that kind of work the patina, lack of it, or general look afterwards isn't really important. And I typically use acids to remove rust. If there are lots and lots of rust then some rough mechanical brushing followed by hydrochloric acid to eat away some, then make sure to stop well before it starts eating much of the actual metal. Then rinse and place in phosphorous acid. That does two things - it converts the rust to black iron which tends to drop off, or if left long enough in there it will make a blackish patina on the metal. Some kind of light phosphating treatment I assume. Anyway, somewhere between removing the rust and having an all black surface there is sometimes a nice patina which tends to follow old rust spots - and thus might look authentic. It isn't a point with machine stuff at all, but for hand tool restauration it might give a nice look if the timing is right.

I think I might give it a try a later point with some other rusty tool - something salvageable though next time.

Indeed, the FlipGrip was one of the rare cheapos done well. :cheers:
I have another version(one with bit holder stationary in the end of the handle instead of pivoting out) coming Monday or Tuesday, but condition of it is basically unknown. :ahhh

Oooo, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of those iron work tables.  :o  :popcorn:

Thanks for the chemical rust removal information, Vidar! :salute:
I usually always use mechnical means to remove corrosion, but chemicals may be a good way to go when I get more big projects at work. I have some of that stuff in a spray can at work that supposedly renders rust harmless, but have only used it for cleaning up my iron bodied power tools(pedestal drill press, stationary belt sander, tables, cabinets, etc) at work. It does stop the rust from advancing(without a coat of oil that can possibly contaminate what I'm working on or with), and makes the unprepared surface basically ready to paint. Anything that is for a customer though, I tend to always use wire wheels(all different types and sizes) on angle grinders and rotary tools. Wouldn't mind chemical treating some larger projects like iron beds, benches, old farm equipment, etc. :)

Now, to get the boss man to buy me some acids in quantity. :ahhh >:D

Looking forward to seeing the tools you bring back to life. It always makes me feel like I saved the day in a small way, anytime something old can be brought back into use instead of just buying a new one. :)
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #35 on: June 02, 2019, 12:07:59 PM
This photo has the large adjustable wrench in it. The two at the top are also on the back-burner for a good scrubbing, but the smaller one needs new springs attached on the handle. The very top small/mid-size tool is a GTD, the mid-size one below it is a Dunlap, the large one is a Bemis & Call(it has a coat of oil on it pending cleanup), the bottom left is just marked "Made in England"(shown earlier), and the bottom right is a Pexto(shown earlier). PST for size.

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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #36 on: June 02, 2019, 12:18:49 PM
I have another version(one with bit holder stationary in the end of the handle instead of pivoting out) coming Monday or Tuesday, but condition of it is basically unknown. :ahhh

Hope for the best, prepare fpr the worst :D

Oooo, I'm looking forward to seeing pics of those iron work tables.  :o  :popcorn:

They are really not much too look at, especially not with rust. They were originally made as precise surface tables though, so they are perfectly flat - which is quite useful many times. Hence no grinding to upset that. The problem is that the workshop is on the move, and I had to put them outside for a while. I covered them up in a nice layer of acid free wax, put a tarp on, and expected that to be the end of all potential rust issues. I was wrong, and the way I was wrong is borderline bizarre:

My cast iron tables were attacked by flocks of tiny birds! Yes. Tiny birds. Attacked my iron tables. It is so far out there that I didn't even consider it. :dunno: The birds basically used their tiny beakers all over to get through the tarp and eat the wax. Which again let in air and water. As a cast iron rusts over nothing that certainly didn't go well. Again - tiny birds! One really has to think about everything!  :facepalm:

Anyway, i did some stop gap measures and expect them to clean up quite well with some steps of acid, baking soda blasting, oil and wiping. Still some months off though.   

Thanks for the chemical rust removal information, Vidar! :salute:

I should add that hydrochloric acid is just a few minutes and very important to get rid of fully afterwards - otherwise it will cause new rust directly. Phosphoric acid is much more gentle, doesn't seem to harm the steel itself (*) and can be left for a much longer time. I tend to do overnight.  I still clean, dry and oil stuff afterwards to prevent new surface rust. (*) Acids will/ can cause hydrogen embrittlement with hard or high strength steel being especially vulnerable. Bake heating the metal within a reasonable time after treatment helps.

Another important point is to go with as weak solutions as practically possible. Everything takes longer that way, but it is also a lot safer if something do happen. For phosphoric acid though I've found that some 25-30% seem to be some kind of lower threshold to work proper.

Now, to get the boss man to buy me some acids in quantity. :ahhh >:D

And more importantly still, some proper protecting gear - chemical eye glasses, face shield, suitable gloves, gas mask (you don't want acid fumes eating your lungs), and some apron or coveralls. And some neutralizing agent nearby in case of smurf happens. I just had smurf happen, so I've been reignited as to the importance of this. Hydrochloric acid is nasty, while phosphoric acid is somewhat more benign. (Stay well away from anything with fluoric acid in it although I'm sure it would eat rust too - that stuff is just too dangerous in too many ways).

If it is a business with a legitimate use then buying acid are easy enough. That said concentrated acids seem to be on all kinds of lists these day, and so are the buyers, and there are lots of regulations and precautions. At least that seems to be the EU way. I just get less concentrated stuff even if more expensive to just avoid all the mess - I don't need the hard stuff anyway.

Looking forward to seeing the tools you bring back to life. It always makes me feel like I saved the day in a small way, anytime something old can be brought back into use instead of just buying a new one. :)

We do have some old tools around here that I do want to keep nice, but I haven't wanted to ruin their old impression by cleaning them up too much. So stopping further rust while keeping the general patina would be nice.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 12:30:08 PM by Vidar »
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #37 on: June 02, 2019, 12:21:57 PM
This photo has the large adjustable wrench in it.

I don't think that style of wrench ever made it here. Never seen them around here. Then again, not very much old stuff around here at all so it might have been common at some point. Basically anything older than 80 years is rare.
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #38 on: June 03, 2019, 03:51:40 AM
Show content
Hope for the best, prepare fpr the worst :D

They are really not much too look at, especially not with rust. They were originally made as precise surface tables though, so they are perfectly flat - which is quite useful many times. Hence no grinding to upset that. The problem is that the workshop is on the move, and I had to put them outside for a while. I covered them up in a nice layer of acid free wax, put a tarp on, and expected that to be the end of all potential rust issues. I was wrong, and the way I was wrong is borderline bizarre:

My cast iron tables were attacked by flocks of tiny birds! Yes. Tiny birds. Attacked my iron tables. It is so far out there that I didn't even consider it. :dunno: The birds basically used their tiny beakers all over to get through the tarp and eat the wax. Which again let in air and water. As a cast iron rusts over nothing that certainly didn't go well. Again - tiny birds! One really has to think about everything!  :facepalm:

Anyway, i did some stop gap measures and expect them to clean up quite well with some steps of acid, baking soda blasting, oil and wiping. Still some months off though.   

I should add that hydrochloric acid is just a few minutes and very important to get rid of fully afterwards - otherwise it will cause new rust directly. Phosphoric acid is much more gentle, doesn't seem to harm the steel itself (*) and can be left for a much longer time. I tend to do overnight.  I still clean, dry and oil stuff afterwards to prevent new surface rust. (*) Acids will/ can cause hydrogen embrittlement with hard or high strength steel being especially vulnerable. Bake heating the metal within a reasonable time after treatment helps.

Another important point is to go with as weak solutions as practically possible. Everything takes longer that way, but it is also a lot safer if something do happen. For phosphoric acid though I've found that some 25-30% seem to be some kind of lower threshold to work proper.

And more importantly still, some proper protecting gear - chemical eye glasses, face shield, suitable gloves, gas mask (you don't want acid fumes eating your lungs), and some apron or coveralls. And some neutralizing agent nearby in case of smurf happens. I just had smurf happen, so I've been reignited as to the importance of this. Hydrochloric acid is nasty, while phosphoric acid is somewhat more benign. (Stay well away from anything with fluoric acid in it although I'm sure it would eat rust too - that stuff is just too dangerous in too many ways).

If it is a business with a legitimate use then buying acid are easy enough. That said concentrated acids seem to be on all kinds of lists these day, and so are the buyers, and there are lots of regulations and precautions. At least that seems to be the EU way. I just get less concentrated stuff even if more expensive to just avoid all the mess - I don't need the hard stuff anyway.

We do have some old tools around here that I do want to keep nice, but I haven't wanted to ruin their old impression by cleaning them up too much. So stopping further rust while keeping the general patina would be nice.
:cheers:
Thank you for the information and safety recommendations, Vidar! :cheers:

Those tables seem even more interesting now you mention they're precision surfaced. :popcorn:

I don't think we'll run into any issues procuring the chemicals wherw I work, but I will definitely stress safety gear as a necessity.  :salute:

I don't think that style of wrench ever made it here. Never seen them around here. Then again, not very much old stuff around here at all so it might have been common at some point. Basically anything older than 80 years is rare.
That is interesting about the rarity of some tool styles and vintages. :like:
The large wrench, while not particularly valuable to collectors, is different than a majority of adjustables from the era. :cheers:
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #39 on: June 03, 2019, 10:36:46 AM
Those tables seem even more interesting now you mention they're precision surfaced. :popcorn:

I had to move one of them around a while back and it planted itself in the ground as a strap ripped off at the edge. That one is out in the open so I can take a picture or three.  :cheers:

That is interesting about the rarity of some tool styles and vintages. :like:

It is more literal and general then that - there really isn't much human made at all here older than 80 years. (Well, discounting actual people older than 80 I guess :think: ) Pretty much all of material history was wiped out in WW2.

The large wrench, while not particularly valuable to collectors, is different than a majority of adjustables from the era. :cheers:

I'm sure you got Ron Geesin's amazing book about UK adjustable spanners up to 1970 already?
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #40 on: June 03, 2019, 02:34:30 PM
I had to move one of them around a while back and it planted itself in the ground as a strap ripped off at the edge. That one is out in the open so I can take a picture or three.  :cheers:
That'll be awesome!
 :popcorn:

I bet those are some heavy tables!  :ahhh

Quote from: Vidar
It is more literal and general then that - there really isn't much human made at all here older than 80 years. (Well, discounting actual people older than 80 I guess :think: ) Pretty much all of material history was wiped out in WW2.
Am I right assume that even stuff that did survive was quickly sold to buy food and such, then some melted down/recycled to build other necessities?

Quote
I'm sure you got Ron Geesin's amazing book about UK adjustable spanners up to 1970 already?
Honestly no. :facepalm:
In all fairness to myself, I have only recently started buying antique tools here and there, mostly to decorate my workshop with. :)
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #41 on: June 03, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
I bet those are some heavy tables!  :ahhh

Roughly 2 metric tons each. Fairly light as far as cast iron tables tables go. I had another one twice that weight earlier, but it was cumbersome to move around so I sold it.

Am I right assume that even stuff that did survive was quickly sold to buy food and such, then some melted down/recycled to build other necessities?

Not really. Not much survived in the first place, nowhere to sell it anyway, and nowhere to buy food. No shops around either - all gone. That generation was tough and had grown up in truly other times though. They were quite self sufficient for the basics. Sparse population to start with helped some.

I assume some of the few blacksmiths did recycle once they had equipment in place. Later on the community in general and shops did start showing up again and so forth. But I think it was very tough going for 5-10 years afterwards for most, and longer than that for some.

Honestly no. :facepalm:
In all fairness to myself, I have only recently started buying antique tools here and there, mostly to decorate my workshop with. :)

It is quite a niche book in its theme, but it is quite interesting from a technical development and innovation viewpoint too. It is a fascinating book from both perspectives.

Sounds like a great way to do workshop decoration  :cheers:
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #42 on: June 03, 2019, 05:31:24 PM
Roughly 2 metric tons each. Fairly light as far as cast iron tables tables go. I had another one twice that weight earlier, but it was cumbersome to move around so I sold it.
:o
Now that's heavy.
And I thought my hollow steel beam work tables were heavy at 350lbs. Please be careful moving those tables. :dwts:

Quote from: Vidar
Not really. Not much survived in the first place, nowhere to sell it anyway, and nowhere to buy food. No shops around either - all gone. That generation was tough and had grown up in truly other times though. They were quite self sufficient for the basics. Sparse population to start with helped some.

I assume some of the few blacksmiths did recycle once they had equipment in place. Later on the community in general and shops did start showing up again and so forth. But I think it was very tough going for 5-10 years afterwards for most, and longer than that for some.
Hard to even imagine what they went through nowadays. I always try to remember how well many people have it now, and how many people still struggle.

Quote from: Vidar
It is quite a niche book in its theme, but it is quite interesting from a technical development and innovation viewpoint too. It is a fascinating book from both perspectives.
Will have to get that book and learn about adjustable wrenches....I mean spanners.
Guess if they're hanging on the wall, it might be a good idea to know about them. Thank you. :cheers:

Quote from: Vidar
Sounds like a great way to do workshop decoration  :cheers:
Much appreciated, Vidar! :cheers:
Will definitely post photos when it is decorated. :)
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #43 on: June 03, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
They are great being cast iron, flat and heavy. Weld spatter wont stick, stuff that is clamped down stay or become flat, and with all the weight they are very stable and sturdy. The vises mounted on them tend to stay in one place : ) The size is also kind of forgiving as one can use the space under to store Euro pallets.

Not the greatest photos, and it is a construction mess all around, but one can see the sad state after birds, air, ice and water have done their thing. The holes are from its previous life at a factory holding various jigs. I've tested a few spots on the other table though, and it cleans up very well indeed. :tu:

One corner dug itself some 20cm into the ground when it dropped. Just happy it didn't happen over the polished concrete slab!




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"Simple is hard"
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #44 on: June 03, 2019, 08:08:19 PM
Thank you for taking the pictures, Vidar! :cheers:
Wow! That is a beast of a table! :o

It looks to be in good condition for what it is, how it was used, and the storage issues you've had.  :like:

I bet that surface would look amazing with a random orbit sanding with a 320grit disc on it, finished with a 400grit disc. Then coated with a layer of drying silicone based spray. I guess the protective layer would be subjective to the intended purposes, but untreated steel plates could be temporarily placed(or bolted using their jig holes to avoid new holes) to facilitate working materials sensitive to treatment application.
My head is going nuts with what I would do with one of those awesome work tables.  :ahhh   :D
I had to sell my pipe-bender years ago, because my home work bench was getting misshapen during use, even with a stress transfer plate I made going to the wall.
Anyway, I digress, that is quite cool. And as someone who spends a lot of free-time and work-time at work tables and benches, it is highly appreciated to see something like that. :cheers:
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #45 on: June 03, 2019, 10:31:21 PM
I bet that surface would look amazing with a random orbit sanding with a 320grit disc on it, finished with a 400grit disc. Then coated with a layer of drying silicone based spray. I guess the protective layer would be subjective to the intended purposes, but untreated steel plates could be temporarily placed(or bolted using their jig holes to avoid new holes) to facilitate working materials sensitive to treatment application.

I'm quite hesitant to do any grinding on it, but I do have some 600 grit discs I might use if necessary. From my spot tests on the other one I do think it will clean up almost perfectly with some acid, light scrub and baking soda blasting. While the tables were out of reach of cold and moisture they did retain a fine metal surface for years - just the occasional oil and swipe when they got grimy. Cast iron behaves quite differently from steel in many ways it seems. There are many different cast irons, and I don't know what I have, but I do like it!

They seem to behave fairly well in contact with stainless steel, but as you too suggested I generally try to use a stainless steel plate in between for sensitive stuff.

I do a lot of hot stuff so I try to avoid any kind of treatments that might melt or give off interesting gases. I've already tried both metal fever and hallucinations from heavy metal gases. While the latter was really out there it is unlikely to be healthy. ::) 

My head is going nuts with what I would do with one of those awesome work tables.  :ahhh   :D
I had to sell my pipe-bender years ago, because my home work bench was getting misshapen during use, even with a stress transfer plate I made going to the wall.

Funny you should mention that - I have a fair bit of hydraulics laying around, and I've thought a few times about making a nice hole in the middle of that table and install a round plate with some fastening arrangements driven by a hydraulic motor mounted on the underside. Maybe a hydraulic cylinder and a slot as well. That would open up for a lot of bending and rolling operations, and would generally be out of the way when not needed. It would be a project though, and I already got more projects than time as it is  :-\

Tables like these do pop up every now and then, and as most wont take the hassle of moving and transporting them they can be fairly low cost. The moving and transport on the other hand can of course add up. Welding tables are more common, but they tend to be rough and slightly abused.
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #46 on: June 04, 2019, 06:20:09 AM
Son of a smurf. The second FlipGrip came and was really really rough. Not the finish, but the marks on the tools and pliers. I did polish everything, but broke the tool pivot screw during final assembly. I just left it with the pliers out on my shop table, because I know I won't find a replacement pivot for it. It isn't good enough for the collection anyway, since the pliers teeth are dinged up and the file has been used on glass or something(the cut is smoothed out completely). I'm writing that one off for now. :-[
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #47 on: June 04, 2019, 08:43:33 AM
Son of a smurf. The second FlipGrip came and was really really rough. Not the finish, but the marks on the tools and pliers. I did polish everything, but broke the tool pivot screw during final assembly. I just left it with the pliers out on my shop table, because I know I won't find a replacement pivot for it. It isn't good enough for the collection anyway, since the pliers teeth are dinged up and the file has been used on glass or something(the cut is smoothed out completely). I'm writing that one off for now. :-[

It arrived at least so there is that... and maybe good for spare parts if come across yet another one. 
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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #48 on: June 04, 2019, 09:52:18 AM
Very true, Vidar. Thank you!  :cheers:

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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: FlipGrip Condition Flip Project - Restoration
Reply #49 on: July 08, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
Finally got a mint condition FlipGrip to go with the older one that was shown in the first post.  :woohoo:

Came with OG sheath.



Compared to the older version.









Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


 

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Due Date: Mar 31
Total Receipts: $379.86
PayPal Fees: $19.62
Net Balance: $360.24
Above Goal: $60.24
Site Currency: USD
120% 
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