About Those SwissChamps

[Buzzbait]

I sat down with my daughter Abby last light, to go over our upcoming vacation in the Adirondacks Mountains. It'll be just the two of us for a couple weeks in late July, and then my wife will be joining us for another two weeks in August. We decided that the theme of our vacation would be "Interacting with our Environment". We'll be flipping over lots of rocks, to see what lies underneath. Swimming with the fish in rivers and lakes. Doing some bird watching and learning to identify various trees and animal tracks. Summit a few mountains and firetowers. Build camp fires and sleep out under the stars. Canoeing and bikepacking overnights. Lots of fun stuff. I even have a new copy of Felix Immler's "The Swiss Army Knife Book" to play around with his projects.

We also decided that our primary tool would be the SwissChamp. I presented her with maybe five or six different possible Swiss Army and scout knives for the trip, and she absolutely loved the SwissChamp. The magnifier was a huge hit, as was the wood saw and file. The scissors and punch and chisel were also highly valued by her. She seemed to handle the knife well enough in her small but strong thirteen year-old hands. So she'll be carrying either my ultra-traditional red handled SwissChamp with plastic magnifier and stainless steel file, or a much older SwissChamp with glass magnifier and case hardened file, that I made custom orange G-10 covers for. I'm kind leaning toward the orange SwissChamp, as I'm uncertain how well the plastic magnifier lens and cellidor scales will hold up to me spraying her down with DEET insect repellent every five minutes.





I took the opportunity to purchase a new SwissChamp for myself, and have one of the newer models with custom Warthog covers on the way. There's a chance that I'll have time to remove those covers, and make a set of custom natural canvas micarta covers for it.



I strongly considered new SOS kits, as I've always wanted one, but couldn't justify the price tag. I already have a few leather and canvas SwissChamp pouches, and we already have survival kits in small otterboxes that we keep in out daypacks. I don't think I could get her to wear a pants belt either for the SOS pouch.




So how good is the newest iteration of the SwissChamp, in comparison to older models? I always liked the construction of the old glass magnifier, but actually preferred using the plastic lens magnifier, because it provided a wider area to view, and didn't distort around the edges as bad. I'm not certain what the new glass lens is like, and how sturdy it is.

I assume that the file is unchanged from my red SwissChamp? I think the stainless file is far more aggressive, and probably more useful for projects, although I'll miss the old case hardened file for doing my fingernails on the fine side.

Is DEET really an issue with the plastic magnifier lens? What about DEET and the graphics on the Warthog scales?

Any input you have would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to nail down all of the fine details as far ahead of schedule as possible.





I also have a black Swisschamp. But I think I want to leave that in mint condition for my collection.

[Aloha]

Your daughter is about to begin a wonderful series of memories with you on this adventure.  It'll be neat in years to come to know if a SAK will be something she'll carry in her adult years. 

While I don't have any problems with deet I am leaning towards more natural means of repellent.  Lemon Eucalyptus oil has worked pretty well for me and has not shown any effects on my scales. 

I'd imagine what residual deet was on your hands if any wouldn't be an issue. 

[Exeter]

I have no idea about the insect repellent, but I think the newest style magnifier is the least suited for outdoor adventures as the glass lens is known to have a tendency to fall out from the frame. Better magnification than the plastic one? Sure, but if it's gone, you'll end up looking through an empty hole with zero magnification.

And that orange Swisschamp is just gorgeous, excellent work with the G10, really, hats off, and I mean it! 

[magentus]

Nothing to add except to say Enjoy your holiday! Sounds like great fun. 

[Don Pablo]

The new glass lens magnifies more than the plastic lens, and is more resistant to chemical attack.
Though it has been known to pop out... Keep an eye when you deploy it!

The new stainless steel metal file lasts much longer, and rusts less easily, than the old one.
Maybe you can still file your nails with it, if you go very gently?
Or you can get a keychain SAK with a smoother nailfile and put it on your keys.

[Nix]

DEET seems to be able to melt just about anything.

But I hear it's safe to use on your skin. 


(In harsh insect country, I douse my self liberally with DEET. I also recommend treating clothing with Permethrin in advance. Better DEET exposure than Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever or Equine Encephalitis. )

[VICMAN]

  to you sir for planning such a great vacation and allowing your daughter to learn how valuable a SAK can be and teaching her outdoor skills. It will be fun and time well spent!

You will be making memories that will last a life time.

The SwissChamp is an excellent choice. I have carried one since they first came out.

I am a big fan of the newer metal file/saw, however, I have had the newer magnifier lens fall out 4 times on 3 different SwissChamps (twice on one and once each on the other 2, I have never had  a lens fall out of the older gray frame magnifier. Because of that I would lean toward Abby using the orange SwissChamp, or if she uses the newer one to just pay close attention to the lens when opening and closing it.

I don't have any experience with using DEET so I cannot give any advice on it.

I think you will have a wonderful adventure with your daughter and wife!

[Top-Gear-24]

Looks like a great way to spend some time with your family mate, it's those kind of adventures that make for the best memories later.

About DEET, I would go for a Swisschamp with a glass magnifier lens, since I've seen the effect of DEET on things like a screenprotector for my camera (you know, those transparant foil protector thing's you put on a screen from a smartphone or camera), half of it got blurred with only one stupid swipe from a fingertip which made contact with DEET some time before.  I've seen the same thing happen to the protective cover for my Garmin GPS map60csx...

DEET has some powerfull destructive capabilities, and I try to use more natural stuff, like Aloha said.

[comis]

Looks like a great way to spend some time with your family mate, it's those kind of adventures that make for the best memories later.

About DEET, I would go for a Swisschamp with a glass magnifier lens, since I've seen the effect of DEET on things like a screenprotector for my camera (you know, those transparant foil protector thing's you put on a screen from a smartphone or camera), half of it got blurred with only one stupid swipe from a fingertip which made contact with DEET some time before.  I've seen the same thing happen to the protective cover for my Garmin GPS map60csx...

DEET has some powerfull destructive capabilities, and I try to use more natural stuff, like Aloha said.

I too am a victim of DEET destruction, long ago I was taking photo at Grand Teton NP, and I vividly remembered how my Intervalometer(kinda remote control shutter + timer) literally melt in my hand like chocolate.  It was crazy, and I frantically had to wipe it down with water, worrying it might be ruined.  Luckily, I acted fast enough and the case of the inervalometer 'harden' again.

Nowadays, I use picaridin whenever I have it, instead of DEET, because it just melt anything and everything.


Anyhow, back to OP's swisschamp plan of use:

What a wonderful gift and a great trip ahead, I wish nothing but the best of time for you two.  And I am sure, from now on, whenever she look upon a swisschamp, she will always remember the good time she had with you!  Btw, I foresee a new young member joining us in not so distant future...

[Barry Rowland]

Enjoy yourself!  I have 2 son's who are Swisschamp fans and have spent time in the woods with me.  I'd save your gray mag lense and hit the trail with a newer version.  Haven't used Feet but I've had excellent results with both lemon balm and a little citronella, Hemingway's favorite repellent!

[Myron]

What a great post and fantastic pictures!    My own kiddo graduated high school this spring, but this is exactly the kind of trip I used to take with him.  I'm pretty sure the only salamander he ever saw growing up was one we found when we overturned a rock while hunting for fishing worms.   

With regard to insect repellents and their ability to dissolve plastic, I've always assumed it was the solvent (some alcohol) and not the solute (the DEET itself) that had this effect.  And obviously some plastics are immune, since the product itself comes in a plastic bottle.  Although I'm not an expert, I live in a West Nile Virus state and a Lyme Disease state, and every study I've ever read still concludes that the only repellent that is proven effective for mosquitoes and ticks is DEET. 

I look forward to hearing about your adventures and to seeing some more beautiful pictures from your trip.  Good luck!

Myron

[Buzzbait]

Thank you everybody, for your kind replies.I’m still pondering how we’re going to pull this off as successfully as possible. I’m now leaning toward having my daughter using my custom orange G-10 Swisschamp with the old style glass magnifier, and me using the black SwissChamp with old style glass magnifier.

I did a test on some old Vic scales, and the cellidor is definitely an issue with the DEET. So I’ve purchased some replacement scales. Nylon is not supposed to be reactive with DEET, so I’ve put an old economy line Vic Climber on order, so I can test out the ecoline nylon scales. I’ve also made a deal with the devil, and placed some G-10 scales on order. None of the replacement scales are “plus” scales, so I’ll be losing the pen and pin, but the trade off in durability seems worth the loss. I’ll report back on how I make out with the new scale options.

The new Warthog SwissChamp should arrive tomorrow. The plan is to EDC it for the next couple weeks, using various carry methods, to see what works out best. I have a few belt sheaths to try out, and a number of lanyards and belt hangers as well. It’s entirely possible that my daughter will end up using a fanny pack of some sort, since she rarely if ever uses a belt, and often wears girl’s shorts with no pockets whatsoever.

[Don Pablo]

The nylon scales are pretty nice, from an utilitarian point of view. 

[VICMAN]

Thank you everybody, for your kind replies.I’m still pondering how we’re going to pull this off as successfully as possible. I’m now leaning toward having my daughter using my custom orange G-10 Swisschamp with the old style glass magnifier, and me using the black SwissChamp with old style glass magnifier.

I did a test on some old Vic scales, and the cellidor is definitely an issue with the DEET. So I’ve purchased some replacement scales. Nylon is not supposed to be reactive with DEET, so I’ve put an old economy line Vic Climber on order, so I can test out the ecoline nylon scales. I’ve also made a deal with the devil, and placed some G-10 scales on order. None of the replacement scales are “plus” scales, so I’ll be losing the pen and pin, but the trade off in durability seems worth the loss. I’ll report back on how I make out with the new scale options.

The new Warthog SwissChamp should arrive tomorrow. The plan is to EDC it for the next couple weeks, using various carry methods, to see what works out best. I have a few belt sheaths to try out, and a number of lanyards and belt hangers as well. It’s entirely possible that my daughter will end up using a fanny pack of some sort, since she rarely if ever uses a belt, and often wears girl’s shorts with no pockets whatsoever.

Sounds like the nylon scales should do the trick!

That Warthog SwissChamp is a cool looking SAK! 

[Aloha]

I don't want to make this about DEET or not to DEET nor derail this wonderful thread.  Damage scales can be replaced unless of course those scale are of sentimental value.  The trip will be amazing and the memories even more so.       

Show content

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2018/the-pre-travel-consultation/protection-against-mosquitoes-ticks-other-arthropods

[nate j]

With regard to the Swisschamp, it is obviously an iconic tool and arguably the flagship of the 91 mm line (even after the introduction of the larger XLT and XAVT).  However, every function is not equally useful; and when you have to carry all of your gear, ounces count, so you might be better served by something like a Huntsman, Farmer, or Pioneer Harvester.  Bonus if you get something in alox is that you will have no worries about the durability of the scales.

As someone who regularly carries a Mountaineer with the new metal file, I can confirm that, while it is noticeably more aggressive that a standard nail file, it still works absolutely fine on fingernails.




With regard to ticks and insects, here is my $0.02:

DO:

• Select and use a repellent containing about 40% DEET.
• Reapply your selected repellent per the manufacturer's recommendation (typically every so many hours).
• Pre-treat your clothes with permethrin.  You can either buy a can and DIY, or send your clothing off to be treated professionally.  DIY is cheaper, but professional treatment will last longer and probably be more thorough.  The permethrin treatment lasts a fairly long time, typically rated by the manufacturer or treatment company as "x weeks OR y washes".  Permethrin is not a repellent; rather, it is an insecticide.
• Consider wearing long pants, and tucking the bottoms of the pants into the tops of your socks or boots.
• Consider wearing long-sleeved shirts.
• Consider wearing a hat.
• Wear light-colored clothing, as it makes ticks easier to spot.
• Check yourself/one another for ticks at least once per day, paying special attention to areas that ticks particularly like, e.g. armpits, groin, scalp.
• Have the proper tools (typically fine-tipped tweezers) and know-how to correctly remove an embedded tick.
• Test your chosen repellent and permethrin-treated clothing prior to your trip, to make sure no one in your party is allergic.
• Know how to recognize the signs and symptoms of tick-borne illnesses.

DON'T:

• Waste your time on/waste your money on/trust your health to non-DEET repellents.  There simply is not enough evidence that they are effective, especially against ticks.
• Use permethrin spray on your skin, or attempt to treat clothing with permethrin while you are wearing it.
• Use repellent that has less than 30% DEET, as concentrations below this level are less effective.
• Use repellent that has more than 50% DEET, as higher concentrations are even more damaging to some synthetic materials; and while they may require less frequent re-application, they do not enhance protection.
• Spray yourself in the face with repellent.  You can spray some on your hand, then rub a bit on your face if needed.
• Ingest repellent.  Try not to apply repellent right before you eat, and or clean your hands as well as possible before you eat.

Sounds like a great trip; enjoy!

[Aloha]

Will you be photographing as well?  I had my kids do drawings and journaling.  Its neat to go back and read their observations in later year.   Fun for them as well. 

 

[kottskrapa]

Lot of good tips nate bit I have one thing that differ.. Around here we learn that to avoid tics is to wear dark clothes. They are harder to spot I agree on that but they are less likely to jump on you when wearing dark.. That and a lot of garlic

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

[Buzzbait]

I’m not actually worried about ticks. You don’t really ever find them in this section of the Adirondack Mountains. I’ve been playing here for 40 years now, and have never once found a single tick on myself or a member of my party. It’s one of the reasons I go to this place, instead of the much nearer Catskill Mountains. What I am worried about is the plethora of mosquitos, deerfly, horsefly and blackfly. The swarms can be bad on years with lots of rainfall, and this year has had much rain.

Regarding what Nate said about model choice, weight and bulk are not such significant issues. The bulk of our travel will mostly be done via canoe and bicycle, with shorter day hikes to certain destinations. And we do actually plan to avail ourselves of as many of the SwissChamp’s tools as possible. It’s part of the game to find creative uses for the SwissChamp’s tools. This will be as much a mental exercise as a physical one. I even have plans for us to make liberal use the fish scale and hook disgorger.

For a 13 year old girl, the knife blades are really a very small part of the fun. Tools like the magnifier, ruler, fish scaler, scissors and package hook show far more potential for creativity. Pretty much all the tools that I normally wouldn’t bother to carry outdoors, are a source of wonder to a kid. With that said, I will be bringing my OC Farmer along in my pack. I can’t imagine not having it with me, even if it isn’t directly needed. It’s a comfort item really. I trust the Farmer implicitly.

We will definitely be taking tons of pictures, and doing some drawing as well. I make journals for each one of our vacations, and this will be no different. Last summer, my daughter did a series of drawings in my journal, which I hope she’ll do again this year.

[Aloha]

Awesome.  The journaling is so neat to look back on as are the drawings.  Its a nice way to end a day, reflecting on all that was done and seen.  The joy of writing can be such a long lasting love as well.  You clearly know this as its been tradition for you. 

What a wonderful journey you have in store.   .     

[Sos24]

I love the Adirondacks and sure it will be a great experience.  Will you be doing any of the high peaks?  I haven’t done it in a long time, but Avalanche Pass and Algonquin were my favorites.

[Buzzbait]

I love the Adirondacks and sure it will be a great experience.  Will you be doing any of the high peaks?  I haven’t done it in a long time, but Avalanche Pass and Algonquin were my favorites.

Probably not. While the trailhead to Mt. Marcy is only a 15-mile bike ride away, I doubt we’ll do it. The official high peaks get so much traffic. I kind of prefer to hit the lesser known and harder to get to destinations during the busy summer months, and hit the high peaks after Labor Day.

My new Warthog SwissChamp arrived today, and I really like it. The new style glass magnifier works very well. Good power, nice wide viewing area, and far less fiddly than the old glass model. I do have my reservations though, as people have mentioned the lens popping out of the housing.

I’m still have mixed feelings on the file. I may go with one of us using an old style SwissChamp, with the Case hardened file, and one of us using the new stainless file, so we have all bases covered.

[Sawl Goodman]

I have both types of file and I really can't say that one is better than the other. They're different horses for different courses. The old one is finer and best suited to softer metals like brass and aluminium. I like the smooth finish it leaves. I've used it to take out sharp nicks and dings from exposed SAK liners and it does a fantastic job. The stainless file is great for rapid work and clogs less readily, but it leaves a much rougher finish. It'd be great to have a knife with both!

My daily carry Swisschamp is an older one with solid scales, case hardened file, and grey magnifier. I'd been looking out for a black one with the current revisions but I got a very good deal on a used red one and have been carrying it ever since. I love it and don't feel let down by the older tools at all. While I much prefer the optical quality and field of view of the latest magnifier on my Explorer, I hate the lens's propensity to fall out. I've got to be careful opening it. It really needs a couple of drops of epoxy, and next time I have an epoxy job I'll do just this. The older version might have poorer optical quality but it feels so much more dependable, and if it's all you have it works just fine.

Two Swisschamps will have you well prepared! I trust you'll enjoy your trip. You daughter's lucky to have an active and encouraging dad like you.

[Butch]

My experience with deet was never good but it works kind of. I have had good luck with garlic. Both eating lots of it & rubbing garlic juice on the skin. Peel all the cloves in a head of garlic & put them in a blender full of water. Blend until completely pulverized then mix with a gallon of water. Works wonderfuly at holding the Texas mosquitos at bay. Of course you go around smelling like an Italian restaurant. ..........

[comis]

For a 13 year old girl, the knife blades are really a very small part of the fun. Tools like the magnifier, ruler, fish scaler, scissors and package hook show far more potential for creativity. Pretty much all the tools that I normally wouldn’t bother to carry outdoors, are a source of wonder to a kid. With that said, I will be bringing my OC Farmer along in my pack. I can’t imagine not having it with me, even if it isn’t directly needed. It’s a comfort item really. I trust the Farmer implicitly.

We will definitely be taking tons of pictures, and doing some drawing as well. I make journals for each one of our vacations, and this will be no different. Last summer, my daughter did a series of drawings in my journal, which I hope she’ll do again this year.

It must be a fun trip, and interesting to see how a 13 years old evaluate the swisschamp.  Kinda like doing a 30 days swisschamp challenge, father and daughter together.

My experience with deet was never good but it works kind of. I have had good luck with garlic. Both eating lots of it & rubbing garlic juice on the skin. Peel all the cloves in a head of garlic & put them in a blender full of water. Blend until completely pulverized then mix with a gallon of water. Works wonderfuly at holding the Texas mosquitos at bay. Of course you go around smelling like an Italian restaurant. ..........

I definitely learn something new today. 

[Huntsman]

Love this post and all your plans - Jealous too

And you, Mr Buzzbait, are a wonderful father and SAK ambassador !

[comis]

As someone who regularly carries a Mountaineer with the new metal file, I can confirm that, while it is noticeably more aggressive that a standard nail file, it still works absolutely fine on fingernails.

Hey, Nate.  This is totally off-topic, but just a quick shout out from one Mountaineer user to another! 

[Buzzbait]

I wore the new Warthog SwissChamp yesterday, in the Victorinox Cordura belt pouch, and am doing the same today. As much as I love the look of leather, nylon pouches are so darned functional. They're soft enough and fit tight enough to your hip, that you don't feel them as much as a leather sheath, and they can really take a beating. I wasn't sure how good the construction quality would be on the Victorinox, but it's better than I expected. It fits the SwissChamp perfectly too, and rides at just the right height on my belt.

I also managed to find an SOS pouch for sale on eBay, and have that one the way. It should be interesting to try out.

[Aloha]

I had both the Dual and Single pouches.  I traded off the Dual  .  My single sheath is very nice.  I hope you will find your SOS sheath to be what you expect.  I like leather personally.  I do appreciate all you said about Cordura.  My other SC is in a leather sheath that is really snug.  Its not a legit Vic sheath tho  .  I thought it was cool since it had the emblem.     

[Buzzbait]

I had both the Dual and Single pouches.  I traded off the Dual  .  My single sheath is very nice.  I hope you will find your SOS sheath to be what you expect.  I like leather personally.  I do appreciate all you said about Cordura.  My other SC is in a leather sheath that is really snug.  Its not a legit Vic sheath tho  .  I thought it was cool since it had the emblem.     

The one I have on the way is the single SOS pouch. I've seen the double around, but it's definitely larger than I want to carry on me. The single looks just right for the SwissChamp and some extra goodies.

I do like leather also. I'm just kind of weighing all my options. I may try this Vic pouch eventually. It looks really nice, although I kind of wish it had a snap instead of Velcro.