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UK Legal Carry Thread!

gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #690 on: October 23, 2018, 11:02:29 PM

That's essentially correct. The non-locking blade under three inches is the definition of a knife that can be carried as a general pocket knife. If you have a specific and genuine reason for "more" or for a fixed blade, you're perfectly entitled too, which is the point often overlooked in internet discussion. If you need a billhook for hedging, machete for clearing a vacant lot, fixed blade for fishing or food prep while camping, then go for it. Just be sure that you can justify the reason for carrying more than that sub-3" slippie.

Another example: As I have some health issues which affect my coordination and other motor skills, I would probably be able to put the case forward for having a locking blade over a slipjoint knife, but wouldn't have a cause for carrying longer than a 3" blade. Having submitted this reason, the onus would then be on the police to disprove this, or to prove that I was carrying it with nefarious intent, or was for example using it in an intentionally threatening manner, or making threats to harm someone with it.


The short version, is that you can carry whatever you need, but if you don't have a specific need, the law protects your right to carry a reasonable pocket knife everywhere which doesn't have specific "no blade" restrictions.

Almost completely correct, however only a judge can decide guilt and or intent  :tu:

Not quite :D

Magistrates (2 or 3)  or a district judge but only if you hit a a magistrates’ court  might pass judgement

but if you go to a crown court the judge is there to define points of law, direct the jury and pass sentence

The Jury decides guilt



« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 11:06:16 PM by SAKPal »


gb Offline Moose

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #691 on: February 25, 2019, 09:31:22 PM
Boom.. And I'm back with my new favorite UK legal pocket knife.... The Bestech Junzi  :climber:



(with companion Huntsman)

[]


« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 09:34:58 PM by Moose »


Offline JK

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #692 on: January 23, 2021, 03:48:48 PM
Related question. I finished making a puukko for a friend but given the pandemic I would have to ship it rather than meet. Does anyone know how to send one? Most couriers seem to have exclusions for knives and sharp objects.


england Offline Dunc

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #693 on: January 23, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
Related question. I finished making a puukko for a friend but given the pandemic I would have to ship it rather than meet. Does anyone know how to send one? Most couriers seem to have exclusions for knives and sharp objects.

I send knives by Royal Mail all the time. Knives are ok as long as they aren’t on the banned weapons list. Just say it’s cutlery when they ask what it is.


Offline JK

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #694 on: January 28, 2021, 08:38:11 PM
I send knives by Royal Mail all the time. Knives are ok as long as they aren’t on the banned weapons list. Just say it’s cutlery when they ask what it is.

Fixed blade puukko?


de Offline Shuya

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #695 on: April 21, 2021, 05:28:39 PM
Fixed blade puukko?

Call it a kitchen knife or for a specific purpose, aka fishing knife.

Send a card with it, maybe one or two fishing gimmics as addition if you feel like that.


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #696 on: June 15, 2021, 08:40:31 PM
I might lose a Vic' classic tomorrow  :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh

I'm off to the Shard (London) and it states "airport style" security scanners so I thought I'd give it a go  :dunno:

https://www.the-shard.com/

I might need to replace the standard black with an Alox version  :whistle: :rofl: (let's see  ;) )

Classic & Keys 0621a.jpg
* Classic & Keys 0621a.jpg (Filesize: 356.54 KB)
They don't like it up 'em!


us Offline Nix

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #697 on: June 15, 2021, 08:57:58 PM
 :rofl:

Good luck!   :tu:


wales Offline GearedForwards

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #698 on: June 15, 2021, 11:34:45 PM
I might lose a Vic' classic tomorrow  :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh

I'm off to the Shard (London) and it states "airport style" security scanners so I thought I'd give it a go  :dunno:

https://www.the-shard.com/

I might need to replace the standard black with an Alox version  :whistle: :rofl: (let's see  ;) )

You got guts Surge  8) You also have a very weird key... wallet?

I'm going to take a wild guess that you may be evaluating their 'airport style' security to see if it meets your lofty standards? Hopefully you won't be found out by someone with your enthusiasm  :twak:  :whistle:
Check out my Youtube channel  for gear reviews, comparisons, and carry philosophy.

Love belt carry? Consider doing the Batman Challenge!


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #699 on: June 17, 2021, 09:28:31 PM
Well, it worked  :tu:

I wasn't selected for a "Private Search"  :pok:

The problem is that I still don't know if it's allowed or not (if you ask, it's a whole world of pain) If you take the chance, as I did, and win  :woohoo: then it's all good  :think:

Still, it was a great day and the views of London (and Essex, Kent, Middlesex & Surrey) were fantastic.

If you could, you should  :tu:
They don't like it up 'em!


us Offline Nix

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #700 on: June 17, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
 :cheers:  Glad you still have your trusty Classic!   :tu:


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #701 on: June 18, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
:cheers:  Glad you still have your trusty Classic!   :tu:
Cheers Nix  :cheers:
They don't like it up 'em!


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #702 on: June 18, 2021, 07:22:13 PM
You got guts Surge  8) You also have a very weird key... wallet?

I'm going to take a wild guess that you may be evaluating their 'airport style' security to see if it meets your lofty standards? Hopefully you won't be found out by someone with your enthusiasm  :twak: :whistle:
What's wrong with my key wallet  :pok:

It has to hold a credit card sized access card (so I can get into the shopping centre I live in  ::) )
I'm in Wales next week so don't make me come looking for you  :twak:
They don't like it up 'em!


wales Offline GearedForwards

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #703 on: June 18, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
What's wrong with my key wallet  :pok:

It has to hold a credit card sized access card (so I can get into the shopping centre I live in  ::) )
I'm in Wales next week so don't make me come looking for you  :twak:

It's different from what I know and am used to, thus makes me scared of it and lash out appropriately, you weirdo  :pok:

Mate, I know you're posh, but 'stealth camping' in Waitrose isn't the way to go  :whistle:

Pfft, you'll probably be dahn saff even this side of the border  ::)
Check out my Youtube channel  for gear reviews, comparisons, and carry philosophy.

Love belt carry? Consider doing the Batman Challenge!


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #704 on: June 21, 2021, 08:14:52 PM
It's different from what I know and am used to, thus makes me scared of it and lash out appropriately, you weirdo  :pok:

Mate, I know you're posh, but 'stealth camping' in Waitrose isn't the way to go  :whistle:

Pfft, you'll probably be dahn saff even this side of the border  ::)
FYI: I don't "camp" anywhere  :twak: (did enough of that years ago!)

I shall be arriving in Port Toilet Talbot tomorrow afternoon and then off to three cliffs the following day.

I shall leave the "Land of our Fathers" on Thursday morning and return to "Waitrose"  :pok:

I will be equipped with the FX & Bond along with my Fenix E01 (I trust this meets with your foreign laws) :dunno:
They don't like it up 'em!


wales Offline GearedForwards

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #705 on: June 22, 2021, 10:58:59 PM
FYI: I don't "camp" anywhere  :twak: (did enough of that years ago!)

I shall be arriving in Port Toilet Talbot tomorrow afternoon and then off to three cliffs the following day.

I shall leave the "Land of our Fathers" on Thursday morning and return to "Waitrose"  :pok:

I will be equipped with the FX & Bond along with my Fenix E01 (I trust this meets with your foreign laws) :dunno:

I should think your gear nice enough to warrant the cross border mugging shake down yes, I've already called 'dibs' on you as an Englishman of 'taxing' interest  :pok:

I've never been to Port water closet, but I hope you can make the most of your time in our lovely land given the unfortunate circumstances of your visit

...Wait that was far too nice to you err.... You smell of elderberries!
Check out my Youtube channel  for gear reviews, comparisons, and carry philosophy.

Love belt carry? Consider doing the Batman Challenge!


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #706 on: June 24, 2021, 08:41:18 PM
I should think your gear nice enough to warrant the cross border mugging shake down yes, I've already called 'dibs' on you as an Englishman of 'taxing' interest  :pok:

I've never been to Port water closet, but I hope you can make the most of your time in our lovely land given the unfortunate circumstances of your visit

...Wait that was far too nice to you err.... You smell of elderberries!
Well, we survived the trip (although GWR First Class have let themselves go  :dunno: )

To be fair you're not missing much at Port Talbot these days, which is now looking very sad & dated  :( It used to be a buzzing little town a decade or so ago but, with the steelworks on tenterhooks and the Covid issues, it's sadly in decline  :cry:

It awl went as well as could be expected and my father was laid to rest on the cliffs with a view of both Port Talbot & Oxwich Bay  :tu:

It didn't seem appropriate to take MTO type pics, so I didn't  :-\

However, here's a shot from the cliffs (towards Oxwich)

Also one of the EDC (which Welsh Customs missed  :pok: ) back home with some Welsh pillow chocolates  ;)

NB: Far too polite a response so I shall retort with something similar about 'amsters  :whistle:
Gower Oxwich Bay 1a.jpg
* Gower Oxwich Bay 1a.jpg (Filesize: 388.54 KB)
Perfect EDC 0621a.jpg
* Perfect EDC 0621a.jpg (Filesize: 166.8 KB)
They don't like it up 'em!


ni-ulster Offline Jud65

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #707 on: March 17, 2022, 12:06:05 PM
Boom.. And I'm back with my new favorite UK legal pocket knife.... The Bestech Junzi  :climber:
Just got myself a Junzi from Twisted Assisted (half the price of the original Bestech, by the way). They do a budget version in D2 with a range of different scales, but it’s still a cracking knife. With companion Rambler in Brass.
We take what is offered...
Morituri Nolumus Mori


gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #708 on: March 17, 2022, 12:27:57 PM
Well, it worked  :tu:

I wasn't selected for a "Private Search"  :pok:

The problem is that I still don't know if it's allowed or not (if you ask, it's a whole world of pain) If you take the chance, as I did, and win  :woohoo: then it's all good  :think:

Still, it was a great day and the views of London (and Essex, Kent, Middlesex & Surrey) were fantastic.

If you could, you should  :tu:

What do you mean by allowed?

 If its legal, its legal but as a private building they can have their own policy and refuse admission, you can't be arrested just turned away


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #709 on: March 17, 2022, 12:42:00 PM
What do you mean by allowed?
https://www.the-shard.com/about/security

"PROHIBITED ITEMS
Please do not attempt to bring in firearms, ammunition, bladed articles, explosives or fireworks, hazardous liquids or chemicals or anything else that could cause harm to someone".

Also:
"You can expect to see police patrols around the building, including by armed officers, and this is nothing to be alarmed about".
I imagine anyone causing a fuss might be given a free ride in the Blue Light Taxi to the local copshop, if only to give you a slapped wrist... and I imagine they'll still pinch your 3-incher, just to make the point.


gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #710 on: March 17, 2022, 05:41:29 PM
I see prohibited from their building - they would have just refused you entry

or anything else that could cause harm to someone

made me laugh though, that's pretty much anything

https://www.the-shard.com/about/security


Also:
"You can expect to see police patrols around the building, including by armed officers, and this is nothing to be alarmed about".
I imagine anyone causing a fuss might be given a free ride in the Blue Light Taxi to the local copshop, if only to give you a slapped wrist... and I imagine they'll still pinch your 3-incher, just to make the point.

Indeed but why would anyone cause a fuss - they have their own rules so follow them? However if they called in the cops, stand your ground you've not broken the law.

If they were foolish enough to arrest you, refuse any caution they might offer, get a solicitor and make a claim for Wrongful arrest / False imprisonment

you would get what they took back or they also face a charge of theft/damages

probably best have it on film and/or seek their body cam footage though...
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 05:49:45 PM by SAKPal »


au Offline Valkie

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #711 on: March 18, 2022, 08:44:30 PM
Ahhhhh

Twould be nice to have a grubberment with some common sense rather than a cowardly grubberment who introduce draconian punishments for carrying a SAK mini in your pocket.

But I guess Australia is simply full of idiots, after all they did vote in howard the coward.
tools is what defines us as humans


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #712 on: March 18, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Indeed but why would anyone cause a fuss - they have their own rules so follow them? However if they called in the cops, stand your ground you've not broken the law.
Some people do like to cause a fuss, though. For the same reason people take it upon themselves to "audit" those in authority... which is basically pushing boundaries in the hope of getting an adverse reaction, which is why it's so often filmed and uploaded direct to YouTube at the time.

But more importantly, this thing about SAKs being legal to carry only applies to public places. The Shard is open to the public, but it is not a public space in itself.

High Court of Justice – claim no. QB-2018-0004473
"On 27 February 2020, an order was made in the High Court of Justice prohibiting anyone from entering in or remaining at The Shard or Shard Place without permission.
Anyone in breach of this injunction will be in contempt of court and may be imprisoned, fined or have their assets seized".

So under this High Court order, if they tell you to go because you're packing a SAK and you kick up a fuss or start bleating legalities at them, you may well find your collar getting felt.

If they were foolish enough to arrest you, refuse any caution they might offer, get a solicitor and make a claim for Wrongful arrest / False imprisonment
you would get what they took back or they also face a charge of theft/damages
probably best have it on film and/or seek their body cam footage though...
Go ahead.
They can arrest you "on suspicion" of anything they like - After all, you will have been asked not to bring any bladed items and you show up with just such a thing... that's pretty suspicious, if you ask me!
They may not actually charge you with a crime in the end, but you'll still have to endure the inconvenience of being arrested, detained and processed, however long that takes... all because you wanted to be a smurf-head over a pretty minor legal interpretation. Even if it's just causing harassment, alarm or distress contrary to the Public Order Act 1986, or another similar offence, which in plain speak is known as being a smurf.
!



gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #713 on: March 19, 2022, 09:24:03 PM
Some people do like to cause a fuss, though. For the same reason people take it upon themselves to "audit" those in authority... which is basically pushing boundaries in the hope of getting an adverse reaction, which is why it's so often filmed and uploaded direct to YouTube at the time.

But more importantly, this thing about SAKs being legal to carry only applies to public places. The Shard is open to the public, but it is not a public space in itself.

High Court of Justice – claim no. QB-2018-0004473
"On 27 February 2020, an order was made in the High Court of Justice prohibiting anyone from entering in or remaining at The Shard or Shard Place without permission.
Anyone in breach of this injunction will be in contempt of court and may be imprisoned, fined or have their assets seized".

So under this High Court order, if they tell you to go because you're packing a SAK and you kick up a fuss or start bleating legalities at them, you may well find your collar getting felt.
Go ahead.
They can arrest you "on suspicion" of anything they like - After all, you will have been asked not to bring any bladed items and you show up with just such a thing... that's pretty suspicious, if you ask me!
They may not actually charge you with a crime in the end, but you'll still have to endure the inconvenience of being arrested, detained and processed, however long that takes... all because you wanted to be a smurf-head over a pretty minor legal interpretation. Even if it's just causing harassment, alarm or distress contrary to the Public Order Act 1986, or another similar offence, which in plain speak is known as being a smurf.
!

You can't use a court injunction agains people trying to climb the outside of a building to cover somone turing up with a legal item on their person that an establihment has decided they don't want you to bring in.

The private establishment can refuse entry but that's it - anything else that might happen has nothing to do with the original issue of entry into a private establishment

my simple point was if you face such a situation don't be bullied into believing you've broken the law - you havn't, the law doesn't change because you've entered said establishment - only in a select few is it the case,

Of course if you kick off you are on your own


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #714 on: March 20, 2022, 01:49:42 AM
You can't use a court injunction agains people trying to climb the outside of a building to cover somone turing up with a legal item on their person that an establihment has decided they don't want you to bring in.
Of course you can - The wording is deliberately vague and covers a wide range of possibilities. This is what lawyers are for.
Context is key and discretion is paramount. Anywhere that has metal detectors and armed Police securing it is not the place to be testing the finer points of legal interpretation.

my simple point was if you face such a situation don't be bullied into believing you've broken the law - you havn't, the law doesn't change because you've entered said establishment - only in a select few is it the case,
You don't need to break a law to be arrested. Also, Police officers won't always know the full nuances of every single law but carrying a knife in today's Knife-Crime UK climate, especially to a place that clearly prohibits such things, is reasonable grounds enough for a suspicion that can lead to an arrest.

It is a bit like carrying a jerry can of petrol into the pub - It's not illegal to carry petrol in a public place, but that doesn't mean you should.



gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #715 on: March 20, 2022, 11:04:47 AM
Of course you can - The wording is deliberately vague and covers a wide range of possibilities. This is what lawyers are for.
Context is key and discretion is paramount. Anywhere that has metal detectors and armed Police securing it is not the place to be testing the finer points of legal interpretation.

Context is key- indeed, that's my point,

metal detectors and armed Police I wonder how much Qatar pay for that and why they would need it for a commercial building...

 
You don't need to break a law to be arrested.

and if they are in the wrong, call them on it, ignorance of the law is no excuse after all ;)

 
It is a bit like carrying a jerry can of petrol into the pub - It's not illegal to carry petrol in a public place, but that doesn't mean you should.

And you could be asked to leave by the landlord, but you can't be arrested for it

Anyway I've derailed the thread and won't do so further
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 11:17:58 AM by SAKPal »


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #716 on: March 20, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
Context is key- indeed, that's my point,
metal detectors and armed Police I wonder how much Qatar pay for that and why they would need it for a commercial building...
Doesn't matter - They have the same kind of security that Windsor Castle has. Presumably there's a reason, but the end results are the same... and so are the prerequisites of entry, pretty much. 

and if they are in the wrong, call them on it, ignorance of the law is no excuse after all ;)
Again not a factor, because you would only be arrested on suspicion of something.

The point is, they've asked you in advance not to bring any blades, so don't be an arse about it.


gb Offline SAKPal

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #717 on: March 20, 2022, 04:16:20 PM
Doesn't matter - They have the same kind of security that Windsor Castle has. Presumably there's a reason, but the end results are the same... and so are the prerequisites of entry, pretty much. 

Doesn't matter to you that a foreign power are either using your taxes or paying members of the crown to 'protect' them from your legal right to do something?

Again not a factor, because you would only be arrested on suspicion of something.

You cannot legally be detained for a suspicion of 'something'


The point is, they've asked you in advance not to bring any blades, so don't be an arse about it.

there is no legal obligation if you are 'asked' - something is legal or it isn't

'terms of entry' are for the most part a civil matter


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #718 on: March 20, 2022, 06:20:29 PM
Doesn't matter to you that a foreign power are either using your taxes or paying members of the crown to 'protect' them from your legal right to do something?
Not a factor in this topic, especially without substantiation of such an assertion.

You cannot legally be detained for a suspicion of 'something'
So I don't know exactly which law or legislation a given officer will choose to arrest you on suspicion of breaking or breaching.
Doesn't change the fact that if you're being a smurf, they WILL find something on suspicion of which to arrest you.

there is no legal obligation if you are 'asked' - something is legal or it isn't
I'm sure shouting that as they drag you away that will sway the populace into rising up in revolution against the corrupt foreign-owned establishment, perhaps even singing stirring songs of the ilk most commonly found in musicals about Victor Hugo novels... but you'll still be dragged away.
You may not be breaking one specific law with this approach, but you're likely pushing your luck with several others in the process... and armed Police tend not to smurf about with malcontent pedants waving Gov.uk printouts at them.

'terms of entry' are for the most part a civil matter
The Police can still escort you off the premises, along with various other civil-based actions in order to 'keep the peace', plus various other actions under their powers if they believe you have committed or are about to commit a crime. That might need some questioning and sorting out down the station, but you're still going for that ride.

Or you could just... y'know... be reasonable and not take a knife where you've been asked not to.


gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: UK Legal Carry Thread!
Reply #719 on: March 20, 2022, 06:22:27 PM
Well, this has all kicked off since my last post, hasn't it  :rofl:

I only wanted to see what, if anything, would have been said/done. I work at an airport and carry some kit that I wouldn't be allowed to as a passenger (and I have no problem with that)

I was simply curious as to whether my Classic would get in, just because it says "airport style security" (the operative word being "style") Airports have various legislation & rules that they MUST enforce from both the DoT & the CAA etc (my Classic has travelled on numerous occasions with no issue) It would seem that, on my last visit to "The Shard" all was good as well.

Other points have been raised which, as someone whose job it was to enforce both the law (and bylaws) on the dirty streets of London, I shall refrain from commenting upon, mostly, lest I am out of date (I usually am  :whistle:)

I would just say that 99% of arrests made by me (and my colleagues) were "on suspicion of # offence" and moreover; you can be detained for various reasons, such as a search of person under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (sect. 23) or PaCE 1984 (sect.1) These were my most used  ;)

My experiment was just a bit of fun which stemmed from curiousity of how it might pan out  :dunno:

NB: The MPS* do not guard the building (inside or out) but, as it falls within their jurisdiction, they are often seen out & about nearby on foot and in vehicles, both armed and unarmed. I think given it's attraction to those that would seek to harm all of us** then it's a jolly, damned fine splendid idea


* I've also seen CoLP, MoD and BTP units on patrol nearby (again armed or otherwise)

** Awlso SAK wielding maniacs  ;)

They don't like it up 'em!


 

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