Self defense with a firearm.

[cbl51]

In response to Nate J in the Swiss Army Knights subform I'm going to post this here as opposed to the SAK forum.

Its all about use of a tiny palm size pocket pistol .22 long rifle in a real world self defense incident. This occurred in 1969 in my hometown of Washington D.C. in a dark alley. It was just after 1am, and I had parked a few street away because it was D.C. and parking was skimpy in that part of town. My destination was a bar called The Fireplace where a young lady was waiting for me as she got off work at 2am when the bar closed.

I took a short cut through the alley as I didn't want to walk all the way around the block because the young lady in question was fully occupying my mind. Not a good thing at the wee hours of the morning in that part of town. As I was walking though the alley, I passed a recessed doorway and I took notice of the guy standing there smoking a cigarette. Just after I passed him, he stepped out and fell in behind me, and like was planned, i looked behind me as he was acting in a menacing way, and then pulled a large knife that looked like a kitchen knife, out from under his coat. Of course this held my attention like it was supposed to do, and I almost missed the big guy with the crowbar that stepped out from behind a dumpster and swung at my head. Being young and agile, I noticed this in a fraction of a second and managed to duck as the crowbar or steel pipe, whatever it was, rung on the brick wall in back of me. It actually grazed the wool watch cap I had on.

It was an  instant panic situation, and I was caught by surprise as I was supposed to be. Only being barely out of my teens and being a quick little SOB, I managed to keep form having my brains smashed out. But I was now trapped crouching against the wall of the alley, retreat cut off by the guy with the knife. I had pulled the little gun that was in my pocket and by reflex fired.

Some months earlier Had bought a small pocket gun form the neighborhood gun guy. This was D.C. an anti gun city, and people were forced to do business with the guy guys that met you in an alley with a black bag, and you looked at what he had hand and made a buy. I had bought a little .22 caliber Italian replica of a 1957 Sharps derringer. That was a 4 barrel little gun that would fit in the palm of your hand. I had shot it some down by a river bank, and it was a reliable thing. That night, it was in the side pocket of the coat I was wearing, and when things looked hincky I had slipped a hand in my coat pocket and had the gun ready to go. As I crouched there and the big guy cranked up to swing on me again, I fired point black at a range of about 2 1/2 to 3 feet and slightly up as I was in a deep crouch almost on one knee.

They say the .22 doesn't have one shot stop power. The night it did. I don't now where the first shot went, but the guy stopped his swing, kind of grunted and hunched up a bit. Then he straitened up and started to swing on me again. I fired a second shot. That shot had a much greater effect. I don't know what it hit, but he dropped his crowbar or whatever, it clanged on the pavement, and he doubled over and went to his knees, continuing to double over until his forehead hit the pavement then fell over on his side in a very tight fetal position and started to scream. He screamed very loud and I was running out the other end of the alley,. His partner with the knife had disappeared at the first shot, running off and getting out of Dodge. I did likewise. To be caught in D.C with a gun, was serious jail time, so I ran like the devil was after me.

I made it back to where my little VW bug was parked, got in and listened to the sirens over a few streets and casually pulled out and drove away. I drove over the Memorial Bridge and tossed the gun out the widow and over the rail into the Potomac river. It was always agreed that if you had to use the gun the gun guy sold you, it went in the river. You don't know him, he don't know you. I held up my end of the deal.

I carried a gun because it was D.C. and many people I knew also carried. The neighborhood gun guy did a good business in the alley in back of the bowling alley or Gaffney's Irish Bar. I replaced the gun with another small .22.

The modern gun shop gun guru's tell you have to have at least a 9mm with a dozen and a half rounds to defend yourself. Well, I'm no expert, but the one time I had to actually shoot someone, a few .22 rounds worked just fine. In the 51 years since that night, I've had various little guns in a pocket, A Baby Browning .25acp, a Beretta Minx in .22 short, then in the mid 1980's I discovered North American Arms. I bought one, then impressed I bought a second one to have a spare. For well over 30 years, those mini .22 revolvers have been travel companions, and saved my butt two times. In April of 1988, I Had to use one to make it clear to a night caller at my remote campsite on the Appalachian Trail a hour after nightfall. The night caller was trying to sneak up on my campsite in the woods just north the Gravel Springs shelter on the A.T. Having some wacko sneaking up on you at night in a remote setting is a very creepy experience. I fired a warning shot just over his head and he ran off at very high speed. To this day, I wonder what he had in mind that dark night in the woods.  Dressed all in black with a hood over his head, I don't think he was collecting for the Sierra Club.

Just after dawn on Sunday morning of Memorial Day 2017, I stopped at a interstate rest area to relive myself of the coffee I had with my breakfast 2 hours before. The rest area was deserted, or so I thought not seeing any cars or truck. This was just past Ft. Hancock Texas and  was west Texas desert country right by the Mexican border. As I was walking to the rest room after parking my car, I saw the two rag tag looking young 20 something  Mexican guys sitting at a picnic table that was hidden by a large notice board with those maps that say "You are here" and an arrow. The looked me over as I passed, and muttered something to one another. I went in and did what I had to  do, and as I was finishing up heard whispering voices at the mens room doorway. I tucked everything back in, zipped up and drew my little .22 revolver and acted like I was still peeing.

They came in and one them approached me holding a knife, while the other one stayed by the door as lookout. The one with the knife came closer and demanded my car keys.

"We're taking your car, gimme the keys man. I'll cut you if I have to."

At this point he was maybe 6 to 8 feet from me, and I had the gun in my hand and the hammer thumbed back. I just turned and aimed right in his face. At that close a range, it was no problem.

Soon as the gun came out, as I was bringing it up level to his face, he screamed and dropped the knife and ran out of the rest room at a very high rate of speed. So fast in fact, that he ran right into his lookout buddy and they both slammed into the cement block wall that was the L shaped entrance to the mens room. It was like a vanishing act cartoon where all you see is a puff of dust. I walked out of the rest room and they both were running full speed through the prickly pear cactus and brush towards the Mexican border that was only maybe a half mile away at that point. I got back in my Toyota and went on with my trip home. I tossed his knife in the trash can as it was some Chinese tactical junker.

The teeny tiny little .22 revolver made two would be car jackers run like little girls. No shots needed. No barrages of magazines, no gun battles, just cowardly criminals not wanting to engage a white bearded old fart that had a gun, even a small one.

One thing I learned from growing up in D.C.; for self defense with a gun, have a gun. Any gun will do if you know how to use it. I've seen violence close up, I've been witness to shooting incidents, and seen first hand people drop attackers with cheap RG.22 revolvers like Hinckley used in the attempted shooting of President Reagan. That 29.95 RG dropped everyone that was hit that day. Just a little .22. It was a .22 Iver Johnson Cadet that killed Bobby Kennedy.

The gun shop gurus want to sell you the most expensive gun they can. Don't buy more gun than you need, it will just end up sitting home when it becomes to awkward or heavy to carry. If it won't fit in your pocket comfortably, its too big for self defense out in the real world.  Get a gun small enough to carry every single day, day in, day out.

[pomsbz]

In your first story you say that it proves that the .22 has one shot stop power and then immediately demonstrate that even at close range, it required two hits just to stop the attack.

[Gerhard Gerber]

I take a .22 very seriously 
Fortunately where I live daily carry is not justifiable, not that we're crime free but still relatively peaceful.

If I was living next country over in any of the big cities of South Africa that would be a different story....
I'm not very experienced, but if I could choose again I'd go with a small .38 revolver. 
We're only allowed one handgun, which I did not know when buying my single action .357 toy 
A friend who works at a gun shop has one of those CC-orientated revolvers, 5 shot I think, feels lovely in my hand and would be ideal to take along on hikes.
This is the danger zone for us, the hiking trails on the outskirts of town.   

[cbl51]

I take a .22 very seriously 
Fortunately where I live daily carry is not justifiable, not that we're crime free but still relatively peaceful.

If I was living next country over in any of the big cities of South Africa that would be a different story....
I'm not very experienced, but if I could choose again I'd go with a small .38 revolver. 
We're only allowed one handgun, which I did not know when buying my single action .357 toy 
A friend who works at a gun shop has one of those CC-orientated revolvers, 5 shot I think, feels lovely in my hand and would be ideal to take along on hikes.
This is the danger zone for us, the hiking trails on the outskirts of town.

I tried a .#8 Smith and Wesson 637. With the lightweight aluminum frame, it weighed under a pound, but was still too bulky for convenient pocket carry. Just not as effortless to conceal and sometimes a PITA to have along, besides kicking like a mule with anything but mild wadcutter target loads. I also tried the Ruger LCP .380, but that really bothered my arthritis. Very very snappy little gun that made any long practice session impossible. Back when I got into carrying, there was not the choices of today, but now after decades with the North American Arms mini's, I'm sooooo used to them, why change. Apparently they work good enough.

Besides, having done something from my teens to my 70's, why change now? The one time I really needed to shoot, the .22 worked, and they didn't have the ammo choices then as now. Now with the CCI stingers, or mini mags, its way better than the plain old .22 lead round nose I used back in 1969. If I upgraded at all, it would be for the North American Arms black widow in .22 magnum. But sometimes I find myself carrying my Ruger LCR in .22. Very lightweight little gun that fits in a high ride pancake holster on my right hip with no trouble. But its too bulky for true pocket carry like the the NAA mini. But it does have 8 rounds an double action. I carry it on woods hikes when we go walking. But the mini's are my city guns.

[zrxoa1]

In your first story you say that it proves that the .22 has one shot stop power and then immediately demonstrate that even at close range, it required two hits just to stop the attack.

I think he was trying to say the first shot missed. He wasn't sure where it went.

The second shot seemed to have actually hit the attacker, immediately dropping him to the ground.

At least that's my take on it...



Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

[cbl51]

I think he was trying to say the first shot missed. He wasn't sure where it went.

The second shot seemed to have actually hit the attacker, immediately dropping him to the ground.

At least that's my take on it...



Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

No, the first shot hit, but I'm not sure where. It did stop him as he was starting to swing again, but he just sort of grunted and hunched up for a moment. Like it hurt him, but not bad enough to stop him immediately. It didn't have the effect of the second shot, that one did drop him right there. I can only guess that in the dark, point shooting, it may not have hit anything vital. The second one sure did.

The point of this whole post was this; that the gun shop guru's and gun magazine writers that are just shills for the gun industry are outright lying to you. They say that a small gun like a .22 or .25 is little better than a sharp stick. The imposter Jeff Cooper made a joke that has been repeated to a sickening degree about how if you shot someone with a mouse gun, and they found out about it, they will be very angry with you and may hurt you. This bull hockey has been repeated ad nauseam on both the internet and at gun shops. It has warped the knowledge of people who don't know any better, and that is dangerous. Anyone who has half a brain and watches the video of Hinckley shooting President Reagan, Secret Service Agent Tim McCarthy, D.C. police officer Delanty, and press secretary Jim Brady, and all of them laying on the pavement down and out with life threatening injuries should take a lesson from it. The D.C. police officer was retired with permanent injuries and a partly paralyzed arm from a .22 round in the neck, Brady spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair, drooling and unable to walk or even speak much from brain damage from a .22 in the head. Reagan had the bullet punch through his rib cage, through a lung, and stop an inch from his heart. McCarthy has damage to his spleen and stomach. All from a 29.95 German made RG revolver in .22 long rifle.

Living in Texas, we can carry all we want. I see these people buying wha the gun shop self promoted 'experts' tell them to, and then they don't carry because the gun is really too big. They get to become a victim while their gun is in the car or even back home. My point was, if you are going to get a gun to carry, make it small enough to really, really carry it in a pocket with comfort. Unless you are a Navy SEAL, or special operator in a Hollywood movie, or the caped crusader protecting Gotham, you don't need 15 or moreorunds of high powered gun. Most criminals are devout cowards. They don't want a fight, just an easy mark. A free meal. An unarmed victim. The modern pocket gun is like the derringers of the old days. A deterrent that makes the criminal go elsewhere.

 Almost all shootings take place at just over arms length, and is over in 2.8 rounds, in a few seconds. Put your fingertips on the wall and take a half step back. Theres your self defense range. You will not need much gun that close. But its of huge importance that you do have one on you that you can reach fast, and is reliable. Atthat close range you don't need much more than a small revolver or pocket size semi like a Keltec .32. The Ruger LCP would be nice if they made it in .32acp to tone it down a bit. The old Beretta .25 Jetfire was a fine gun as was the baby Browning.

You certainly don't need the guns that the gun magazine push. Unless you're a SEAL or Steven Segal fighting a trainload of terrorists in a Hollywood movie.

[zrxoa1]

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. But I agree with you.

I have a Glock 19, have had it since the late '80s.  I rarely carry it because it is just too bulky and not comfortable to have on me.

I have been looking for a smaller gun to carry, as I have been downsizing as well.



Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

[cbl51]

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. But I agree with you.

I have a Glock 19, have had it since the late '80s.  I rarely carry it because it is just too bulky and not comfortable to have on me.

I have been looking for a smaller gun to carry, as I have been downsizing as well.



Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

Yeah, I had a Glock 26 for a bit over two years as an experiment. In that two years, I carried it exactly twice. It was like a brick in the waist band. It was okay in a hip holster, but then I had to go up under a cover garment if I needed the gun. Much much slower to get out than a small pocket pistol in a pocket holster. The small J frame .38's with the aluminum frames are good if you don't have any objection to the recoil. Same for the little Ruger LCP. I just like guns that are actually fun to shoot, so I will shoot more often. I will be that much more familiar with the gun if push comes to shove its the same gun that I was just at the range with the day before and shot 200 or 300 rounds through it. Last time I was at the range I put a half a bulk 550 round box of Federals through it and had a ball. Thats all trigger time for practicing the holy trinity. Sight picture, breath control, and trigger squeeze. Not to mention muscle memory of how the gun feels in hand. A lot of that ammo was used  in fast double action 5 yard point shooting at half size B-29 silhouette targets from the National Target Company of Frederick Maryland. Size about 11X14 inches.  I find that fast double action at close range with one hand more realistic.

I'm an old fart and I know it. I've become one those curmudgeons that are going "Back when I was a young ..." and I hate to hear that. But  I see the truth of a lot it now that I'm one of those old guys. The industries, no matter gun, knife, car, has gone to a greedy all about the money thing. No matter if its actually detrimental to the customer in the long run. A small low recoil gun that you can shoot a lot,  is way better than a larger harder to conceal gun.

[nate j]

Some very good points.  Thanks for indulging my request and sharing your stories!

[Shopdoc]

Very nice text thread.  I started with a Glock 26.  Great gun.  I can shoot it well.  But...I rarely carried.  Does me no good.  Then I bought a Glock 19.  Guess I went the wrong way for CCW, but doesn't everyone need a 19?  Truly my favorite pistol to shoot.  I prefer it over my Sigs (which I sold), my VP9 (ticked me off that I shot my Glock 19 better because operators carry HK, right?).  Next, my Glock 43.  Once again, great gun.  Not too bad to carry, but...I still don't.  I just don't like IWB carry.  I think it is going to come down to me carrying something OWB when I can.  When I have a flannel on (typical during the winter) or a coat.  But in shorts weather or jeans and light tshirt only, the OWB just won't fly in my neck of the woods.  That brings me to a true pocket pistol.  And I don't mean my .38 airweight 642 in my sticky pocket holster.  Still a bit big for a regular jeans pocket.  Those that can, great!  I wish I was one of you.  I really do.  My buddy appendix carries a  Glock 17 with cut down magwell every single day.  Your talk about the NAA .22 really interests me.  That is something I could carry daily.  No matter what.  I think I'll look into one in .22 magnum. 

[cbl51]

Very nice text thread.  I started with a Glock 26.  Great gun.  I can shoot it well.  But...I rarely carried.  Does me no good.  Then I bought a Glock 19.  Guess I went the wrong way for CCW, but doesn't everyone need a 19?  Truly my favorite pistol to shoot.  I prefer it over my Sigs (which I sold), my VP9 (ticked me off that I shot my Glock 19 better because operators carry HK, right?).  Next, my Glock 43.  Once again, great gun.  Not too bad to carry, but...I still don't.  I just don't like IWB carry.  I think it is going to come down to me carrying something OWB when I can.  When I have a flannel on (typical during the winter) or a coat.  But in shorts weather or jeans and light tshirt only, the OWB just won't fly in my neck of the woods.  That brings me to a true pocket pistol.  And I don't mean my .38 airweight 642 in my sticky pocket holster.  Still a bit big for a regular jeans pocket.  Those that can, great!  I wish I was one of you.  I really do.  My buddy appendix carries a  Glock 17 with cut down magwell every single day.  Your talk about the NAA .22 really interests me.  That is something I could carry daily.  No matter what.  I think I'll look into one in .22 magnum.

Get the convertible on matter which NAA you get. I'd go for a Black Widow. 

That way you can shoot a boat load of Long Rifle ammo at lower cost then carry the magnum cylinder.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I am a firm believer that God made Man, but Sam Colt made them equal.

And I'm not 100% on the first part. 

As for the rest, you are preaching to the choir, at least as far as I am concerned.  I have long believed that a .22 was the best CCW you can have, for a variety of reasons.

There is no concern about over penetration.

There is little recoil so follow up shots (if necessary) are generally pretty accurate.

Ammunition is cheap, so you can get in a lot of practice with it and not have it cost you.

Physically small ammunition = small firearm.  Small firearm = more convenient.  More convenient = having it when you need it.

And the most important one- in the entire history of people shooting other people the following scenario has absolutely never happened.

"Oh crap I've been sho... oh wait, never mind, it was just a .22, I'm okay."  *resumes attack*

And, of course, if it does happen, by the time they have measured the hole in their anatomy to determine that they aren't dead, you have either escaped or made several more matching holes.  Even if none of them are lethal, that guy is going to need to get medical attention quickly or he's going to bleed out.

Unfortunately in Canada we aren't allowed to carry firearms.  When I see the average doofus on the street stepping out in front of cars while looking at his phone instead of the street, or tossing litter carelessly on the ground, sometimes I am happy about that, as I don't see the vast majority of people nowadays being responsible enough for a firearm.  However, I do wish there was an option, even if it was just not allowed in populated areas.

After working in corrections, the door in bars and many other security/investigation positions, people do not scare me in the least.  I am perfectly happy taking people barehanded or with a pocket knife if necessary.  Add to that my penchant for large dogs and I lead a fairly safe existence.  I have had three very large, heavily muscled kids back down when they realized that even a "win" for them was going to cost them too much.

I really wish I had the option to carry a pistol while walking in the woods, because I really don't want to spend the rest of my life as bear smurf.  Bears and coyotes are the biggest threat I face, and, being an animal lover I don't want to hurt them, but if it's them or me, well, there are millions of people on social assistance that depend on my tax money and I can't leave those people hanging.   

About the only handgun I'd like more than a .22 might be a .410, but that's another story. 

Def

[lister]

I would also hate to become bear smurf. And we have a lot of bears in my part of the world and lots of woods (like 50-60 % of the country). But taking a handgun gun to a bear fight? I'll pass.

this is my doctrine of progressive overkill self defense:
If opponent is unarmed use a sword.
If opponent has a sword use a gun.
If opponent has a gun use tank.
If opponent has a tank use a nuke.
If opponent has a nuke destroy the universe they exist in.
For now I didn't have ever go beyond that.

 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Just hope that your opponent with the sword is more than 20 feet away when you reach for your gun or you are going to wear that big blade home.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/10/16/the-21-foot-rule-why-is-it-important/

Further proven by the Mythbusters.



Def

[pfrsantos]

Just hope that your opponent with the sword is more than 20 feet away when you reach for your gun or you are going to wear that big blade home.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/10/16/the-21-foot-rule-why-is-it-important/

Further proven by the Mythbusters.



Def

Seen this before. Yup, I'm more scared of a knife than of a gun. To begin with, people handle knives since they're 4 or 5 years old. They know how to hold them and how to use them. Guns, not so much.

Knives work, even if they are broken.

Knives don't need to reload.

Knives have no safety switch.

Knives are silent.

Well, having said that, I think everyone here agrees with me when I say I love knives...

 

 

[lister]

Just hope that your opponent with the sword is more than 20 feet away when you reach for your gun or you are going to wear that big blade home.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/10/16/the-21-foot-rule-why-is-it-important/

Further proven by the Mythbusters.



Def

Yeah but the thing is, the guy with a sword/gun would also need to draw their weapon in real life, which is not true for the mythbuster experimental setup. And while drawing a knife might be a bit faster compared to drawing a gun the difference is a lot less. Drawing a sword must be even slower compared to drawing a gun. Also, gun is still useful closeup, and still deals quite a bit more damage than a knife.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

My father, a Vietnam vet, taught me to shoot when I was three years old. I'm 50 now. He taught me in the very early 70's when we had briefly moved from New England to North Carolina. We moved back to Boston when I was 4 or 5...

We took shooting up again when we went shooting and hunting in the Adirondacks in 79.

He told me that a .22 is an assassin's dream gun. Handgun at close range, or a 4 power scope on a rifle. A .22 bullet could ricochet and rattle around in the head and that's all you need.

He also taught me not to do what they do in movies - dont shoot the car or brick wall that someone is hiding behind. Dont just spray bullets indiscriminately. Instead, take cover, be quiet, take a moment and plan your shot. When they expose themselves, hit them in the melon or similar soft and conflict- endind place.

This is exemplified by the shootout the Boston police had with the marathon bombers. The young cops had them pinned down but everyone was trading shots. It was an older Lt. or Capt. who calmly scooted a block over and up the street, and bird-dogged them from the alley with a few well placed shots. That broke the stalemate.

Nothing wrong at all with a Chief Special 5 shot .38 revolver, or maybe a .380 but even the Walther is getting big for daily. I sure see the value of a .32, or even the .22.

And the knife thing? 21 feet or less. That's my zone. More dangerous than a gun at that short distance. Give a 2 year old a magic marker and try to take it from them without getting marked up. Now imagine that 2 year old as a 30 year old with a knife. If they are within 21 feet of you, and you aren't prepared, you are getting cut. That gap is closed before your pistol clears its holster, so give them the outside of your forearm if you have to, but get that wheel gun out or you wont make it.

[cbl51]

That Mythbusters video is a bad joke and totally bogus.

Who is going to be carry a gun on an empty chamber?  Jamie was giving his bud extra time to slant the "test".

Certainly no LEO or even half bight civilian.  If they tried that with a double action revolver or any Glock type semi that had a round chambered, it would not go well for the  knife guy.

Totally slanted so called test from the Myth Busters. Very disappointed by them.

[pfrsantos]

That Mythbusters video is a bad joke and totally bogus.

Who is going to be carry a gun on an empty chamber?  Jamie was giving his bud extra time to slant the "test".

Certainly no LEO or even half bight civilian.  If they tried that with a double action revolver or any Glock type semi that had a round chambered, it would not go well for the  knife guy.

Totally slanted so called test from the Myth Busters. Very disappointed by them.

Lots of reasons this could happen. That's the thing with guns. There's various things that need to happen for them to work. Knives awlways work! Even broken!

We awlso need to consider that not everyone carrying/using a gun is an expert. They can take too long to respond to a threat. The gun might get caught when they're pulling it out.

For those reasons, I don't think the video is that far from reality.

 

[cbl51]

Lots of reasons this could happen. That's the thing with guns. There's various things that need to happen for them to work. Knives awlways work! Even broken!

We awlso need to consider that not everyone carrying/using a gun is an expert. They can take too long to respond to a threat. The gun might get caught when they're pulling it out.

For those reasons, I don't think the video is that far from reality.

 

No, your coming from a very dated knife nut outlook. Modern firearms are so reliable now that its rare for anytime to happen. I've been shooting handguns now for 51 years, and I've never had a revolver malfunction in any way. It has been rare for a modern semi auto to malfunction. I hd a Glock 26 for 2 1/2 years and put over 2,000 rounds through it. It never malfunctioned. Even back in the 1970's when I  had my old Colt 1911A1 that was over 50 years old, it very rarely malfunctioned and I always carried it on a chambered round. With the thumb safety and grip safety if was the way to carry a 1911. With my S&W revolver that I bought in 1972, and still have, it's been tens of thousands of rounds over the years. It' only problem was it started to spit lead as the cylinder was slightly out of time became of wear. An overhaul at Smith and Wesson and it was back to like new.

As for gun getting caught while pulling out, take a look at he S&W 642, Ruger LCR, Ruger LCP,  Kel-tec .380, S&W bodyguard, and find something that is going to catch. Modern guns made for pocket carry and self defense are a smooth snag free design thats part of their function.

Knife still working broken??? Oh come on now. You're really reaching with that one. Go break your knife blade off and show me how its gonna work.

No matter how you cut it, if you have a knife, and the other guy has a gun, you're coming from way too far behind and most likely will get yourself killed with delusions.

[Mechanickal]

Is there a right or wrong here?

Also, why do gun related topics always end up in people trying to get their right?

I'm out again

[Don Pablo]

Is there a right or wrong here?

Also, why do gun related topics always end up in people trying to get their right?

I'm out again

Hello! 
Bye! 

[ezdog]

I love my LCP and love shooting the crap out of it too!
Like any other gun it is a lot easier to shoot well and get good with the more I shoot it and get good with it.

The real problem is exactly the point of this story too that the best gun to carry is the one that you will carry and we each have our own idea of what works for us and that is just how it should be I think.
 
I seem to fumble around too much with anything smaller than an LCP and that can not be a positive aspect at all either.
I find the idea of something smaller appealing but in practice my tiny threshold does not go that small as of yet.

I have a wallet carry holster essentially for the LCP and find that the size is fine as it is just like carrying a wallet really if I carry in the back and the LCP Pocket holster slides right into the pocket of the Carpenter pants that I generally wear every day if I need to carry that way.




The bigger issue for me is that our Metro area is split between my state which is an Open Carry state and the one next door which is a Do not Dare Carry Here State!
I literally have to stop somewhere and get rid of a gun when going between the 2 or bad things can and do happen otherwise around here.

Carrying in the woods is indeed a very different thing.
When camping in my trailer there is little I can imagine better than any pump action shotgun and the mere loading of the chamber in mine has ended any tensions that I have encountered in the middle of the night from inside the trailer almost before they really get started.
Sort of the sound of the Universal Warning to all bad guys where I have been.

If walking in the woods I like the SP101 in 357 as it is pretty powerful yet unobtrusive at the same time and while I know it may not stop anything really big/determined I am pretty sure that it will also ruin your day if on the wrong end of one no matter how big and crazy you are.

[pomsbz]

Is there a right or wrong here?

Also, why do gun related topics always end up in people trying to get their right?

I'm out again

Pretty much. The idea of carrying one up the spout without any safety is rather American and certainly not universally held.

[powernoodle]

The salient point is not .22 vs. 9mm, or knife vs. gun.  It is "be prepared" or "don't be prepared".  Give yourself options or don't.  Carl's .22 made him prepared and gave him an option other than capitulation and possibly serious injury or death.  People can poo poo self defense preparation all they want, or try to disparage the .22 or any other caliber, or lawfully owned firearms in general, but Carl's real world, life and death encounters trump all of the nay saying, and they certainly trump anything that Adam Savage conjures up for a tv show.  Real world results render the debating moot.


Springfield Armory Hellcat.  Its a little easier to shoot and a little more zippy than a smaller caliber, but any of them are capable of altering someone's behavior.

[spudley112]

Throwing stars. Just sayin

[nate j]

The idea of carrying one up the spout without any safety is rather American and certainly not universally held.

I'm pretty sure all the guns mentioned in this thread have a safety of some sort.  CBL is correct; no one who carries a modern handgun for personal defense and knows what s/he is doing carries with an empty chamber, as essentially all modern handguns have safeties which allow them to be safely carried with safety engaged and chamber(s) loaded.

Now, some older firearms could not be safely carried with the chamber loaded, as a sharp blow could result in a negligent discharge.  To be on the safe side, they had to be carried with the chamber directly under the hammer empty.

[cbl51]

Pretty much. The idea of carrying one up the spout without any safety is rather American and certainly not universally held.

Sorry, but thats very old and out of date attitude based on out of date information. I suggest you look into how the Glock is made and engineered, and how it has influenced the design and construction of semi autos in the past thirty years. As for the handling of most all double action revolvers, they are impossible to have go off unless the trigger is deliberately pulled all the way to the rear to fire. Post WW2, they have all incorporated hammer block safeties that are a built in factor. Add in a 'hammerless' design like a S&W 642, and you have a gun that is totally safe.

I get very weary of people who don't know much about firearms because of their political bent or a nationality that they don't have good access to them and therefor inexperienced, spouting off wrong or parroted old miss information because they don't know what they are talking about. Yes, people have had accidents with chambered rounds, but if you investigate, they were doing something stupid, like having their finger on the trigger when it should't be. Like watching that video, it was very obvious from the beginning that it was slanted for the gun guy to fail. Nobody carries a modern semi auto on an empty chamber since the 1980's. The built in safety engineering of modern handguns makes that as ridiculous as using a hand crank to start your car because you don't trust the new fangled self starters.

As for the statement that "Carrying one up the spout without any safety is rather American and certainly not universally held." is not only ridiculous, but reveals that you are totally ignorant of modern firearms and their use, so you should hold your out of date and wrong opinions to yourself. It just brings out how little you know.

Actually, its been safe to carry "one up the spout" as you put it since the Germans came out with the Walther PP series of pistols in the 1930's.

[hiraethus]

  Another argument about guns. You go guys.

[Fuzzbucket]

Tetchiness and guns - it's not a great combination is it? Highly enjoyable though.