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Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...

Fuzzbucket · 165 · 11276
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
on: March 28, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Right, because I'm stuck up north for a bit I thought I'd treat myself a wee bit to a new toy to play about with. So, I splashed out and ordered a brand new BO Surge+ and it arrived this morning. I'd briefly had a couple of Surges way back, but not one with replaceable cutters or the improved blade exchanger... or in fact one in black oxide, so I was intrigued and quite excited.

However, even before I opened the box, something just told me, I just had that feeling, my excitement was misplaced and deep dark black (literally) disappointment was going to ensue...

I've not bothered taking pictures, I'm sure you'll all know what I mean with the following: blade grind on the plain edge blade all over the place, wobbly rattly (as in it RATTLES!) lockup on the serrated blade and in fact the grind is pretty gash on that too, lock doesn't engage DOESN'T ENGAGE on the scissors, handles misaligned when closed.

Why did I smurfing bother... I'm off to hit things with a spade... 
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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #1 on: March 28, 2020, 02:34:26 PM
I'm sorry about that, Fuzzy. >:(
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #2 on: March 28, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
The Surge has definitely not got
the same quality as the Wave+ >:(
fail to prepare prepare to fail
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it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 02:44:03 PM
Sorry to hear that Fuzzy, I always thought LMs QC would be pretty good. But this is not just a small issue, that is a whole tool messed up  :oops:
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #4 on: March 28, 2020, 02:44:30 PM
Quote from: Don Pablo on March 28, 2020, 02:34:26 PM
I'm sorry about that, Fuzzy. >:(

Ah, it's okay, I'll get my money back... eventually... Hundred odd quid though, not to be sniffed at.
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #5 on: March 28, 2020, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: Wspeed on March 28, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
The Surge has definitely not got
the same quality as the Wave+ >:(

Aye, I agree Speedy.
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #6 on: March 28, 2020, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: SirVicaLot on March 28, 2020, 02:44:03 PM
Sorry to hear that Fuzzy, I always thought LMs QC would be pretty good. But this is not just a small issue, that is a whole tool messed up  :oops:

Nah, their QC has been pretty poor for a while now... in my opinion anyway... is that Gerberleatherthingy I can hear running towards me? Is that a gun? :think:
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 03:32:23 PM by Fuzzbucket »
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it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #7 on: March 28, 2020, 02:49:21 PM
You can hide behind me  :D
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00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #8 on: March 28, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
That's awful Fuzz.... Though not surprising.. I too have came across brand new sealed LM that should had gone straight into the trash rather than out of the factory. Quite a few times actually. So much for their alleged QC. So now I only buy used tools. At least I know what to expect and very often are more than pleased with the stated condition.
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00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #9 on: March 28, 2020, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Fuzzbucket on March 28, 2020, 02:48:13 PM
Nah, their QC has been pretty poor now for a while now... in my opinion anyway... is that Gerberleatherthingy I can hear running towards me? Is that a gun? :think:

Run Fuzz!!  :ahhh
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #10 on: March 28, 2020, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: Sam Lim on March 28, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
That's awful Fuzz.... Though not surprising.. I too have came across brand new sealed LM that should had gone straight into the trash rather than out of the factory. Quite a few times actually. So much for their alleged QC. So now I only buy used tools. At least I know what to expect and very often are more than pleased with the stated condition.

Very good point.  :tu:
Merit Badges Using EDC items randomly selected with a poker hand, post a photo of your EDC or a component of the EDC that got used during the course of the day for 4 weeks (or 30 consecutive days) Only for the 14th year Anniversary Challenge. Post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate and contribute in Challenge thread and post a photo of a different blade each day for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. You have one of your pictures in the 2020 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Post a picture and recipe for a batch of Chili that you have made Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of an Axe for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of a traditional folder for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate in a challenge by carrying  a GEC knife and post a photo of it  for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (supertool, core, hacks) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Join the brave and happy few, who choose a different path. Enter on the boulevard of broken dreams. Start a new thread and post a photo daily of any SAK 74mm or smaller ( you can switch it up daily ) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Start a new thread with a photo of a modded knife or multitool with your EDC Start a new thread with a photo showing the axe in use Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store

us Offline SteveC

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #11 on: March 28, 2020, 03:11:58 PM
Sorry to hear that cuz   :(  There is no excuse for sloppy grinds  :twak:  As far as the scissors go, on mine I have to make sure I open them with a authority to get them to lock but I think with use they have gotten better. The grinds on mine are nice and even.



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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #12 on: March 28, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
Merit Badges Using EDC items randomly selected with a poker hand, post a photo of your EDC or a component of the EDC that got used during the course of the day for 4 weeks (or 30 consecutive days) Only for the 14th year Anniversary Challenge. Post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate and contribute in Challenge thread and post a photo of a different blade each day for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. You have one of your pictures in the 2020 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Post a picture and recipe for a batch of Chili that you have made Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of an Axe for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of a traditional folder for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate in a challenge by carrying  a GEC knife and post a photo of it  for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (supertool, core, hacks) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Join the brave and happy few, who choose a different path. Enter on the boulevard of broken dreams. Start a new thread and post a photo daily of any SAK 74mm or smaller ( you can switch it up daily ) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Start a new thread with a photo of a modded knife or multitool with your EDC Start a new thread with a photo showing the axe in use Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store

gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #13 on: March 28, 2020, 03:14:54 PM
Quote from: SteveC on March 28, 2020, 03:11:58 PM
Sorry to hear that cuz   :(  There is no excuse for sloppy grinds  :twak:  As far as the scissors go, on mine I have to make sure I open them with a authority to get them to lock but I think with use they have gotten better. The grinds on mine are nice and even.

I was dreaming of such a thing... (sigh)...
Merit Badges Using EDC items randomly selected with a poker hand, post a photo of your EDC or a component of the EDC that got used during the course of the day for 4 weeks (or 30 consecutive days) Only for the 14th year Anniversary Challenge. Post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate and contribute in Challenge thread and post a photo of a different blade each day for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. You have one of your pictures in the 2020 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Post a picture and recipe for a batch of Chili that you have made Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of an Axe for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of a traditional folder for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate in a challenge by carrying  a GEC knife and post a photo of it  for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (supertool, core, hacks) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Join the brave and happy few, who choose a different path. Enter on the boulevard of broken dreams. Start a new thread and post a photo daily of any SAK 74mm or smaller ( you can switch it up daily ) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Start a new thread with a photo of a modded knife or multitool with your EDC Start a new thread with a photo showing the axe in use Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store

it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #14 on: March 28, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
Merit Badges Start a new thread with photos of at least 5 different 111mm models in your collection Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Farmer X SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days.  Start a new thread and post a photo of the Vic Pioneer X for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate in a challenge thread and post a photo of a SAK Cybertool (any variant), Swisschamp, Champion or Toolchest for thirty (30) consecutive days. Must start a thread with a photo of at least five (5) of your watches Start a thread with photos of at least five different colored ALOX models in your collection Join the brave and happy few, who choose a different path. Enter on the boulevard of broken dreams. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Fieldmaster SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. You have one of your pictures in the 2020 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Must put something in order and provide link to the post. Start a new thread with pictures of a Fish Scaler in use Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread with photos of your Mora knives in use Start a new thread with a photo showing the Hook in use Start a new thread with a photo of a modded knife or multitool with your EDC Start a new thread with a photo showing the Swiss Army Knife   Toothpick being used in an unusual way. Must start new thread with photos of multitools (Magazine/Catalogue type photos) Start a new thread and post a photo of the discontinued sak/mt for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection

us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #15 on: March 28, 2020, 03:20:53 PM
 :facepalm:  LM come on  :twak:.  Tools cannot leave without someone actually looking at the tool  :pok:. 
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #16 on: March 28, 2020, 03:48:34 PM
Fuzzy!  WTF!?

Didn't I warn you that the current Surges are crap?!   :twak:

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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #17 on: March 28, 2020, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: Nix on March 28, 2020, 03:48:34 PM
Fuzzy!  WTF!?

Didn't I warn you that the current Surges are crap?!   :twak:

I know... I remember... but I'm weak...  :facepalm:
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us Offline LoopCutter

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #18 on: March 28, 2020, 04:04:36 PM
Quote from: Nix on March 28, 2020, 03:48:34 PM
Fuzzy!  WTF!?

Didn't I warn you that the current Surges are crap?!   :twak:
i recall your complaint regarding the grind on the PE blade being curved, but not aware of the complete tool being crap?


I have only one Surge, a clamshell package, in SS. Besides the PE recurve awl other functions were tight and snug. Took a challenge to loosen up.  But, I will admit, the SURGE is not my favorite MT. 


Fuzz, I am curious if your just received tool was packaged in a box or clamshell?


Sorry to learn of your issue, it should never happen.  ;(
If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!

A SMART man always knows what to say!
   A WISE man knows whether or not to say it!!!
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #19 on: March 28, 2020, 04:11:10 PM
Quote from: LoopCutter on March 28, 2020, 04:04:36 PM
i recall your complaint regarding the grind on the PE blade being curved, but not aware of the complete tool being crap?


I have only one Surge, a clamshell package, in SS. Besides the PE recurve awl other functions were tight and snug. Took a challenge to loosen up.  But, I will admit, the SURGE is not my favorite MT. 


Fuzz, I am curious if your just received tool was packaged in a box or clamshell?


Sorry to learn of your issue, it should never happen.  ;(

In the great scheme of things it's not that great a deal, it's just frustrating and definitely puts me off buying new Leatherman tools.

In answer to your question Loopy, it was in one of their new(er) boxes... the ones with the new angry bird logo...
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #20 on: March 28, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: LoopCutter on March 28, 2020, 04:04:36 PM
i recall your complaint regarding the grind on the PE blade being curved, but not aware of the complete tool being crap?

The overall quality was crap. Scissors were dismal. And, yes, the grinds were atrocious.

I'm no longer buying new LM products. Full stop.

Vintage Supertool? You betcha.

Vintage PST? Absolutely.

Swisstool?  Why.....yes.
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #21 on: March 28, 2020, 04:39:03 PM
Sorry to hear Fuzz  :-\
I hate to chime in.
But the last two new Leatherman I've bought (New Surge & Rebar) had plier problems (pivot play, seize under pressure) and other things. The warranty replacements are good.

I agree with Jack  :tu:
Hope you have your OG Supertool still  :pok:
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #22 on: March 28, 2020, 05:34:38 PM
I think the last good Leatherman I bought new was a post BO Wave in about 2012, something like that, and even that was a second attempt purchase as the first one sent out was absolute mince. I can't remember specifically what was wrong with it, but it was pretty major and shockingly so... Like in a how the smurf did that get boxed never mind leave the factory kind a way.

I also remember paying full price for a new style Charge that had an absolutely stunningly beautiful main blade. However, everything else from the slidey scales that slipped about in use to the file that carved a neat arcing channel into chassis was garbage.

Sorry, bit of a mini rant... (sigh)...
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #23 on: March 28, 2020, 05:34:38 PM
I've only been a Leatherman owner for about 10 years, so I missed their glory days, and I've only seen the downward slope. I think the only currently available Leatherman I own is a Style PS, and even that is broken and in the mod project box. I'm sick of sending if back.


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad

be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #24 on: March 28, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
I'm sorry to hear Fuzzy  :(.

On the last Surge I bought the scissors failed after some very mild use (used 3 or 4 times to cut regular paper).  The replacement Surge I got had a very questionable grind on the PE blade (it had that "oversharpened" look you normally find on your grandfather's knife after being re-sharpened for over half a century...), the handles were misaligned and they had quite a bit of scratches on the them.

Send that one back as well (after a short discussion with the webshop), and the third one I got was the right one.  But by then, I'd already paid 32 Euro (2 x 16 Euro) for shipping the Surge back to the webshop  ::).

Buying Leatherman tools has become a true ordeal sadly enough.  Buying them at the local shop means paying an arm and a legg for them, and 90% of the time all the tools there are packed in those awful blister packaging so you can't inspect them before you buy them.  Buying them online makes them a bit more afordable, but obviously you can't inspect them either, so it truly has become a game of hit and miss...

That's why I'm always excited when I find an old stock NIB Leatherman tool somewhere, the last two I bought were an original Supertool and a Blast, and both were absolutely perfect, awesome "classic Leatherman" fit and finish, like we were used to get from Leatherman in the past... :cry:

Edit: I do have to say that every Wave + I own (2 stainless ones and one BO) and both of my Charge +'s are perfect in every way.  Could it be that they pay more attention on those because they are their best selling tools? (at least I guess the Wave is one of their bestsellers, could be wrong about that).
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #25 on: March 28, 2020, 06:04:38 PM
I'll stick with my Charge AL, TTI and PST then...

Wtf are they doing??
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #26 on: March 28, 2020, 06:49:17 PM
They are killing their brand.
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #27 on: March 28, 2020, 06:58:08 PM
Just had another look at it... Ah, it's awful...  :facepalm:
Merit Badges Using EDC items randomly selected with a poker hand, post a photo of your EDC or a component of the EDC that got used during the course of the day for 4 weeks (or 30 consecutive days) Only for the 14th year Anniversary Challenge. Post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate and contribute in Challenge thread and post a photo of a different blade each day for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. You have one of your pictures in the 2020 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Post a picture and recipe for a batch of Chili that you have made Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of an Axe for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of a traditional folder for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of any gear for thirty (30) consecutive days during the MTo anniversary month. Participate in a challenge by carrying  a GEC knife and post a photo of it  for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (supertool, core, hacks) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Join the brave and happy few, who choose a different path. Enter on the boulevard of broken dreams. Start a new thread and post a photo daily of any SAK 74mm or smaller ( you can switch it up daily ) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Start a new thread with a photo of a modded knife or multitool with your EDC Start a new thread with a photo showing the axe in use Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store

nl Offline nitram

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #28 on: March 28, 2020, 07:19:44 PM
Quote from: Top-Gear-24 on March 28, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Edit: I do have to say that every Wave + I own (2 stainless ones and one BO) and both of my Charge +'s are perfect in every way.  Could it be that they pay more attention on those because they are their best selling tools? (at least I guess the Wave is one of their bestsellers, could be wrong about that).

Not so sure about that. It took two returns before I got a Wave+ with functioning locks on the blades.

be Offline Top-Gear-24

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #29 on: March 28, 2020, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: nitram on March 28, 2020, 07:19:44 PM
Not so sure about that. It took two returns before I got a Wave+ with functioning locks on the blades.

After posting the above I read Fuzzy's story about his 2012 Wave, and now yours...

Maybe I was just extremely lucky receiving 5 "modern" Leatherman Tools without any flaws, I just assumed the QC on these was better since I'm never that lucky ... Maybe I should've played the lottery instead of buying those tools  :think:.
Merit Badges Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must buy something on EDCSource Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of the LM Crunch  Multitool for fifteen (15) consecutive days. Start a new thread with pictures of a Fish Scaler in use Must start a thread with a photo of your stayglow SAK You have one of your pictures in the 2018 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. You have one of your pictures in the 2019 calendar or in top three of the calendar poll in any month of the given year. Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a new thread with photos of at least 8 different 130mm models in your collection Start a new thread with photos of your titanium gear with a multitool or sak Start a new thread with photos of your Mora knives in use Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (blast, wave or charge) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread demonstrating paracord knot tying Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Must start a thread with a photo of at least five (5) of your watches Must start a thread showing a photo of at least five BO tools Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC

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