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Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...

Fuzzbucket · 165 · 11284
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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #90 on: April 16, 2020, 08:06:00 PM
Thanks Edi  :cheers:
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Offline mikekoz

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #91 on: April 20, 2020, 12:44:09 PM
    I may be in the minority here, but I prefer Leatherman's newer tools, with the exception of their knives. I have a lot of Leatherman multitools and knives and not a single one I have ever purchased has been defective. I bought a lot of them to collect, so I have not used the majority of them, but I always play with and inspect each one I buy. I own two Surges, one of the older ones, which I still use every now and then, and one of the new ones, which sits happily in its sheath. The oldest Leatherman I use is my Wave. I own two of the original PST's, but do not care for them too much. Yes, I know, it was the one that started it all, but they are crudely made, uncomfortable to use, have non-locking tools, and they clump when each one is deployed. If I compare that to the more modern Rebar, the Rebar blows it away in just about every way I can think of. I think their designs have improved with time, which is normal I think.  My last one was the K2. I find this an improvement over the Craters, but still like the older non-plier based tools they used to sell a tad bit better. One day I will buy a P4, but still think they cost too much and I will not be buying any more nonessential or fun stuff until this pandemic is over.   >:(. Anyhow, sorry to play devil's advocate, but it is all just one man's opinion! 

us Offline BClogic

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #92 on: May 21, 2020, 03:17:20 AM
Hopefully I'm not interrupting this thread, but these last 4 pages are exactly what I am/was worried about. Today my coworker gifted me a 2 year old BO Surge. I wanted to buy one (or it from him) so he gave it to me with a broken blade tip and small screwdriver. Even for 2 years of use its still tight in the pliers head, I wanted to send it in for warranty for the broken bits but I'm not the biggest fan for BO finishes. So......I thought trade it in on an E-Voucher. $75 to knock off on a brand new SS Surge but with the late great QC I've heard of LM I'm hesitant. Should I assume the consensus view is send it in for warranty and NOT risk being disappointed? If this is annoying send the armed Surge Fuzz had after me and I'll run like that bunny....
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us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #93 on: May 21, 2020, 04:06:35 AM
If it were me I wouldn't send it in for the E-voucher :shrug: You would likely do better to get it fixed and then try trading straight out for it, as many love the BO finish :salute:
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us Offline BClogic

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #94 on: May 21, 2020, 04:17:56 AM
Quote from: Poncho65 on May 21, 2020, 04:06:35 AM
If it were me I wouldn't send it in for the E-voucher :shrug: You would likely do better to get it fixed and then try trading straight out for it, as many love the BO finish :salute:
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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #95 on: May 21, 2020, 05:44:06 AM
 :iagree: with Poncho   :tu:
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #96 on: May 21, 2020, 03:02:36 PM
Quote from: SteveC on May 21, 2020, 05:44:06 AM
:iagree: with Poncho   :tu:

 :iagree: :iagree: BO tools are very desirable... and not only that, but when they're well used, they're still or even more desirable. Get it fixed and trade it... or... or learn to looooove Black Oxide like normal people.  :cheers:
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us Offline BClogic

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #97 on: May 21, 2020, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: Fuzzbucket on May 21, 2020, 03:02:36 PM
:iagree: :iagree: BO tools are very desirable... and not only that, but when they're well used, they're still or even more desirable. Get it fixed and trade it... or... or learn to looooove Black Oxide like normal people.  :cheers:
You just want me to turn to the darkside because you have cookies.

I suppose I could/should call this a sentimental keeper since my coworker bought it after inquiring about my Wave also I have known him and his family for about 15 years :think:

Where are my cookies Fuzz :rofl:
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #98 on: May 21, 2020, 06:53:18 PM
Quote from: BClogic on May 21, 2020, 05:05:35 PM
You just want me to turn to the darkside because you have cookies.

I suppose I could/should call this a sentimental keeper since my coworker bought it after inquiring about my Wave also I have known him and his family for about 15 years :think:

Where are my cookies Fuzz :rofl:

We have Jelly Beans too  :pok:

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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #99 on: May 28, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Quote from: McStitchy on May 21, 2020, 06:53:18 PM
We have Jelly Beans too  :pok:

(Image removed from quote.)
Did those come in the post? :whistle:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #100 on: May 28, 2020, 12:11:49 PM
Quote from: Don Pablo on May 28, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Did those come in the post? :whistle:

It came in some post a few month back  :D
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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #101 on: May 28, 2020, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: McStitchy on May 28, 2020, 12:11:49 PM
It came in some post a few month back  :D
I got some too. The sender is a real angel. :dd:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #102 on: May 28, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Totally  :iagree:
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ro Offline Edi

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #103 on: August 10, 2020, 04:53:35 AM
Overall, i am actually content. The latest lm is the surge and beside a bad ht on a screwdriver, i can't trash talk it. Time will tell, though... now really thinking about a camo charge... just because. I really, really like that design 😁
Real question: lm has cpm 154cm, cpm s30v blades, right? What hrc do those blades have!? Thank you!

us Offline BadMechanic

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #104 on: August 10, 2020, 06:40:20 AM
I mustve not gotten a Monday/Friday tool. My 2 Surges have been flawless. I can see why not everyone would like/want one, but thats no excuse for LM to let it leave the factory.  :rant:

cy Offline dks

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #105 on: August 10, 2020, 01:11:26 PM
The last LM I bought, I think,  was an OHT a few years back - bought because I thought it was an interesting Gerber style LM.

I have several LM but the ones I use properly are older ST300s, Squirts, Micras. They all benefit from a good clean but no QC issues (The ST300 files are pathetic, but it is the same in all).

We used to complain about SOG (powerduo) and Gerber (dime) having issues but these were lowerish cost products, without the made in US expectation of LM.

I was not aware of LM quality going downhill until now.

It reminds me of the complaints regarding the Sebenza 31 that it does not have the quality of the older ones, 21s, this being blamed on Chris Reeves practically leaving the company thus the QC has slipped.

Now, the same may be said regarding Tim Leatherman, as from what I read he is not really that involved in the company's day to day operation, so maybe that is why quality has slipped.

Additionally, for various companies. it may be cheaper to replace problematic products than to have proper QA and QC.
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #106 on: August 10, 2020, 03:12:03 PM
Quote from: Edi on August 10, 2020, 04:53:35 AM
Real question: lm has cpm 154cm, cpm s30v blades, right? What hrc do those blades have!? Thank you!

Leatherman uses 154CM and S30V not the CPM version which is the powder metal process.  I would hope LM would heat treat it to bring out the best performance which from my reading is 58-61.  I have a Skeletool and Charges with LM 154CM and they are real performers.  My Skeletool is used most and the edge is fantastically sharp and stays sharp. 

I also have a Charge in S30V that I use at work which has also performed very well.  I don't know if LM uses in house heat treat but on my tools they seem to have gotten it right on both S30V and 154CM.     
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ro Offline Edi

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #107 on: August 10, 2020, 03:28:28 PM
Thank you. So, the ht is proper. Because, you know, the steel alone... i couldn't find an official statement about the hrc. Still, i don't want to be a jackass, but there's a kinda big gap between 58 and 61...

gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #108 on: September 28, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Look at this crap!

I'm home today just trying to catch up on odd jobs around the house. I saw the Surge, stuck a pocket clip on it got to it and started farting about with things. When it came to the actual point when I needed to use the tool I had a hell of a time trying to detach it from my pocket and this is why, look at this - the tolerances are so poor on this thing that the clip just slides about all over the smurfing place!







 
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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #109 on: September 28, 2020, 01:40:36 PM
Unfortunately a known issue  with the pocket clip.
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #110 on: September 28, 2020, 01:48:31 PM
Yeah, I know, but this time it's because of the movement of the bolster it's attached to. Did you see the dirty big gap?
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #111 on: September 28, 2020, 01:51:24 PM
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #112 on: September 28, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: Edi on August 10, 2020, 03:28:28 PM
Thank you. So, the ht is proper. Because, you know, the steel alone... i couldn't find an official statement about the hrc. Still, i don't want to be a jackass, but there's a kinda big gap between 58 and 61...

I'd agree 58-61 is a wide margin when it comes to HT steel  :tu:.  On the two tools I use with standard LM steel ( Surge, Wave ) they seem to have gotten it right.   
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #113 on: September 28, 2020, 03:53:16 PM
I do wonder if the slot on the Surge was included just because  :think:.  The tool is a pretty heave hunk of steel and the pocket clip for many seems to not be a great fit.  I understand LM and QC or lack thereof is a thing.  Just a thought. 
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #114 on: September 28, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
I'm not bothered about the clip really, it's more the poorly fitted wobbly bolsters that annoy me. Other tools don't have that problem, the Wave is nice and tight in that area (snigger), but that gap when the bolster's twisted is close to 2mm!  :ahhh
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #115 on: September 28, 2020, 04:10:44 PM
I see that.  QC and LM  :whistle:. 
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #116 on: September 28, 2020, 04:12:20 PM
Exactly...  :facepalm:
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #117 on: September 28, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #118 on: September 28, 2020, 05:33:03 PM
I bought a few new Leathermans thus far lately and have not seen anything of a quality control issue in any of them...knock on wood. I am not done yet however, and will report any issues I find...hopefully none...here.

My personal dealings with the company however, is an entirely different thorny issue.  :facepalm:
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Frustrating reminder of why I now prefer older Leatherman tools...
Reply #119 on: September 28, 2020, 06:58:58 PM
I buy used tools so any issues I may run into i don't fuss about too much. 

Chako, LM should not be treating any customer as if they are lucky to buy from them let alone make it hard to buy from them. 
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