Appeal of discontinued models

[Danielh]

I dont have any discontinued knives, except for a few Wengers, but I've seen many people post on here about finally finding an elusive knife, and then fixing it up and carrying it. For some reason it seems like the woodsman specifically has a lot of fans. What makes people work so hard to find out of production knives for EDC? Is it the tool sets, or just the idea of carrying a knife that is no longer made?

[pomsbz]

A lot about them makes a lot of sense.

[Rich S]

I've looked for a Vic Apprentice for years (just the simplest tool set I need/want). Finally found the exact same layout, size, tool set on an ISC knife.
I'd be carrying it if I hadn't fallen in love with the Tinker - been carrying it for years. Must have a phillips.
Rich

[Thunderpants]

It's strange - as soon as something becomes rare or hard to find, its value rockets for no rational reason. A Wenger 130mm that cost 35 euros in 2013 will now fetch three times that and some models which were cheap as chips back then now go for crazy prices. People like to own stuff that is hard to find, I guess - even if one can buy an equivalent 130mm Victorinox for not much more than the old Wenger price.
There are some models, for instance 84mm SAKs with scissors, which are very much missed because they were supremely useful pocket tools in their own right, and there's nothing quite like it that can replace them. If the Victorinox Swisstool Spirit were suddenly discontinued, I would be running around like a maniac trying to find a spare, because it's a genuinely great tool -- and New In Box Spirits would be worth a fortune in five years time. Luckily there is nothing to indicate those will be discontinued any time soon! But ya never know.

[aerojet]

It is not so much the appeal of a discontinued model, but the tools or the set of the tools on the unit. For example, I usually carry for my EDC a Wenger Tool Chest Plus. I also have the S54 Eco. Which one to carry?

The Eco 54 is made by Vic in Delemont, and the TCP was made in the same place. However, the Vic tools are hard to get out especially the Phillips and wrench. I don't know how many fingernails I have shredded trying to get the thing open. The original TCP tools open with a nice sharp click and all will open without a fight.

Another difference is the S54 has a locking main blade, and the TCP does not. I prefer the non locking unit. Just my choice, so the only way I can get something which does not shred my nails or lock the blade is to get a discontinued unit. 

The other appeal of the discontinued units is again the tools. I have a Ski Wax tool, the Z can opener, the long fingernail tool, and others in long gone units. For every day usage one would like the largest compliment of tools available. That being said - the TCP does have it's drawbacks.

I am not a big fan of the Wenger magnifying glass. Little numbers on locks are hard enough to see, and this unit does not do a very good job of enlarging them to make a key from the code. Also - no pin, no pen, and no light. SO to solve this problem, I carry a Swiss Card in my business card case. Extra things in another small space.

And so on. I guess there is no do all or be all unit unless you want to carry a XAVT. Even that does not have the orienteering tool, so another compromise.

Just my 2 cents worth

 A J

[Sos24]

For my a lot of the appeal is variety of toolset.

My favorite SAK is the Yeoman and it is all about the toolset.  Before I even knew the Yeoman existed I was a big fan of the compact because of all the functions it fit into just two layers.  I also really appreciated the magnifying glass and inline phillips on the Explorer.  I was so excited when I discovered that a 3 layer merging of the two existed.  Then I was so disappointed to discover it was discontinued.  I kept searching for one because I knew I would love it.  It has been a few years and the Yeoman is still my favorite and most carried SAK.

I also have a fondness for the Woodsman and the Champion, which also is due to toolset.  Both these are great SAKs if you like the magnifying glass/inline phillips layers in addition to other tools not on the Explorer, but don’t want to go as large as the SwissChamp.

[sixracer]

I’ll say it again: tool set. That with a desire to optimize your daily carry. In my day-to-day the SAK tools I value are easy to define. I don’t typically need a can opener or a saw. But a Philips, a tiny screw driver(in corkscrew), a bottle opener, a magnifier all rank pretty high. Hence if I can find a Scientist, I might consider paying $100 for it to save a layer or two for something I carry regularly. 

[Sos24]

I’ll say it again: tool set. That with a desire to optimize your daily carry. In my day-to-day the SAK tools I value are easy to define. I don’t typically need a can opener or a saw. But a Philips, a tiny screw driver(in corkscrew), a bottle opener, a magnifier all rank pretty high. Hence if I can find a Scientist, I might consider paying $100 for it to save a layer or two for something I carry regularly. 

(Image removed from quote.)

Unfortunately, I see even fewer of the Scientist second-hand than the Yeoman and making a Mod from current models would also be costly.

[Barry Rowland]

For me, I just like Wengers.  I live the Yeoman and the Woodsman though!

[Aloha]

The tool set for sure.  Many of the wonderful models seem to have been discontinued.  I'd imagine most if not all look for specific tool sets only to discover the SAK that has them is long discontinued.  I know that was the case with me.  The Woodsman and Modeler are two with really nice tool sets.  The 84mm Golfer and Voyageuer or pretty much any 84mm with scissors as mentioned. 

 

[ChopperCharles]

For me, I just like the toolset. I found a brand new Troubleshooter with Marlboro scales. Still new in the box. I put blue Plus scales on it, and have been using it regularly. I have zero use for a tiny short little saw in a SAK, but I use the file ALL the time. There are very, very few SAKs that have a file but not a saw. Usually they come as a set, and I find that a waste of space. Pliers, scissors, file, backspring phillips, and then the normal blades and openers and other backspring tools. It's a great combo, and fortunately the marlboro branded knives are still really cheap.  Unfortunately, the lanyard ring is in the wrong location to work with the new pocket clip on Amazon, otherwise this would be the perfect production SAK for me.

I still really wish I could custom-order a SAK with all the implements I want. Instead, I'm slowly collecting broken, abused, or otherwise cheap knives to get a collection of tools to build my own perfect knife.

Charles.

[sixracer]

I still really wish I could custom-order a SAK with all the implements I want.

This would be amazing! I can get custom shoes, messenger bags, shirts, you name it. Why won’t Vic make what you want for some worthwhile price of like $25-50/layer.


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[ChopperCharles]

Seriously!

Also, get rid of the stupid magnifying glass already, and put the snap shackle into the 91mm knives. Also the locking flat and Phillips in-line drivers. It’s 2020 and you’ve owned Wenger patents for how long now?  Let’s see some new toolsets and goram locking drivers!

Charles.

[Sos24]

Seriously!

Also, get rid of the stupid magnifying glass already, and put the snap shackle into the 91mm knives. Also the locking flat and Phillips in-line drivers. It’s 2020 and you’ve owned Wenger patents for how long now?  Let’s see some new toolsets and goram locking drivers!

Charles.

Why do they have to get rid of the magnifying glass?  Vic has already discontinued 8 models with it and as is now there is only one model smaller than the SwissChamp with it. 

If you don’t like the magnifying glass, fine.  If you want a snap shackle fine?  Then they should make a new model rather than get rid of something many of us like.

[Aloha]

 

No more taking away just add stuff Victorinox  .  Plenty of models yet to come from Victorinox if they wanted to.  I'd love a 84mm Explorer.  I'd love to see them really get after the 84mm or 85mm line with a vengeance.  Conservative is how they've likely lasted as long and will last, but YAWN.  I missed the Wenger heyday.  I came too late to the party.     

[FolderBeholder]

There are a few discontinued SAKs I love.  Yeoman, Voyageur, Scientist to name a few.
A 58mm discontinued SAK I wish would come back is the Vagabond.

[pfrsantos]

Could be for both reasons you pointed out in the OP.

For the toolset, that's exactly what you wanted/needed and is no longer available in production models.

For the pleasure of having/using/showing something that is rare and difficult to come by.

 

[ChopperCharles]

Sure, sure. You guys can keep the glass. I just find it to be a useless tool that just takes up space, it's not something I need. And when I think about the bigger knives, with inline drivers, I find I'd love to have the snap shackle to secure it to a belt loop, because i don't like to sheath carry and many are far too big for a pocket.

For instance, one of the reasons i chose the Ruike LD43 rescue knife over the Victorinox 111mm Rescue knife were the carry options on the Ruike. Snap shackle or pocket clip. The Victorinox offers neither. This is great because the knife can be clipped into the molle webbing on the outside of my first aid kit, or carried in a pocket, or clipped to a backpack, or any number of other options. 

Charles.

[stugumby]

I've wanted a small climber for quite a while,84mm needs to come back with scissors. I also missed out on some wengers and victorinox 108mm models, need another gak..

[Gath]

Well there's various reasons, for example I'm carrying a Champion currently since my backup is generally pliers based.

There's also some oddities that are interesting to show of or use, the Swissgrip for example definitely turns heads and the ability to use full bits makes it versatile.

Personally I don't really pay premiums for discontinued knives, but I think there's something interesting for anyone in the piles of models removed from production.

[Don Pablo]

Sure, sure. You guys can keep the glass. I just find it to be a useless tool that just takes up space, it's not something I need. And when I think about the bigger knives, with inline drivers, I find I'd love to have the snap shackle to secure it to a belt loop, because i don't like to sheath carry and many are far too big for a pocket.

For instance, one of the reasons i chose the Ruike LD43 rescue knife over the Victorinox 111mm Rescue knife were the carry options on the Ruike. Snap shackle or pocket clip. The Victorinox offers neither. This is great because the knife can be clipped into the molle webbing on the outside of my first aid kit, or carried in a pocket, or clipped to a backpack, or any number of other options. 

Charles.

Yeah, but with a grand total of 2 reasonably sized (aka, not an XAVT) SAKs in production that have the glass, it's easy to avoid.

[Kevin P]

I'm a former lurker who just created an account today and decided to start pitching in some thoughts.  I'm sure it's not worth a whole lot, especially considering all of your expertise that I've found here. 

As a person who loves variety, I cringe when someone wants to remove variety just out of personal taste.  I understand not needing a specific tool, but I wouldn't want Victorinox to remove anything out of pure desire for choice.  I only have the Swiss Champ with a magnifying glass, so I can't speak too much about it from my own experience.  I can say that I used to hate the knives that had a corkscrew because I don't drink wine.  Then I learned all the other awesome uses for it, and just today I ordered a Camper just because I want a SAK with a corkscrew and a saw.  I love the variety and options that exist!  You can find almost any combination of tools that fit what you need.

[ElevenBlade]

I'm a former lurker who just created an account today and decided to start pitching in some thoughts.  I'm sure it's not worth a whole lot, especially considering all of your expertise that I've found here. 

As a person who loves variety, I cringe when someone wants to remove variety just out of personal taste.  I understand not needing a specific tool, but I wouldn't want Victorinox to remove anything out of pure desire for choice.  I only have the Swiss Champ with a magnifying glass, so I can't speak too much about it from my own experience.  I can say that I used to hate the knives that had a corkscrew because I don't drink wine.  Then I learned all the other awesome uses for it, and just today I ordered a Camper just because I want a SAK with a corkscrew and a saw.  I love the variety and options that exist!  You can find almost any combination of tools that fit what you need.

I tend to agree there - I feel like if you're going to carry a SAK, you might as well have a few extra tools on it, just in case.  Otherwise, you're carrying a tool for what you plan to do - not what might come up.  That's how I rationalize the extra weight.  I could get by with a discontinued Voyageur for 90% of what I have to do on a day to day basis in town.  But its that 10% ... that's where the magic happens. 

[Altis]

Toolset for me. I'd love for them to bring back the Woodsman, and I'm surprised they discontinued it at all as it seems like a very natural toolset.

Of course the discontinued fetch high prices... the supply is cut and demand often increases due to people wanting to acquire the toolset while they can.

All of this could be resolved if they started letting people choose the layers they want. 

[Sos24]

All of this could be resolved if they started letting people choose the layers they want. 

Now that would be awesome.  I think it would have a lot of appeal for many.  But then that might be an end to some of the modders who do such a nice job.

[ElevenBlade]

Toolset for me. I'd love for them to bring back the Woodsman, and I'm surprised they discontinued it at all as it seems like a very natural toolset.

Of course the discontinued fetch high prices... the supply is cut and demand often increases due to people wanting to acquire the toolset while they can.

All of this could be resolved if they started letting people choose the layers they want. 

The thing is, Victorinox doesn't (afaik) give enough people enough notice that a tool is being discontinued, and their prices don't change all that much.  So I don't suppose they do it for profits in the same way ... say... Trader Joes does it with limited edition products.  Most of the high prices on discontinued tools are in the secondhand market.  Victorinox only sold that tool once - and at wholesale most of the time.  All of the markups for rarity, or the labor for the modders is money in the pockets of a third party.  So it's not in Victorinox's interest to push the market in that way.  Rather it's to add products to their line - such as the Pioneer X and Farmer X. 

[Altis]

The thing is, Victorinox doesn't (afaik) give enough people enough notice that a tool is being discontinued, and their prices don't change all that much.  So I don't suppose they do it for profits in the same way ... say... Trader Joes does it with limited edition products.  Most of the high prices on discontinued tools are in the secondhand market.  Victorinox only sold that tool once - and at wholesale most of the time.  All of the markups for rarity, or the labor for the modders is money in the pockets of a third party.  So it's not in Victorinox's interest to push the market in that way.  Rather it's to add products to their line - such as the Pioneer X and Farmer X.

Oh to be clear, I'm talking about the price going up on second-hand markets (and new-old-stock from vendors). Once Victorinox discontinues a model, they're kind of out of the picture.

[Altis]

Now that would be awesome.  I think it would have a lot of appeal for many.  But then that might be an end to some of the modders who do such a nice job.

I suppose. Perhaps they could limit it to the 91mm tools, letting people pick and choose layers. Being able to go bladeless would be interesting in itself.

They could even do something where people request/pre-purchase the tool and once they have enough orders, they do a run of them. I mean it isn't that difficult to make them when they're so incredibly modular -- but they obviously can't produce every single combination and keep them all on hand at all their retailers.

But a custom order (maybe even with engravings?) direct from Victorinox would probably be profitable for them, especially with a reasonable premium. I gather that they're a very consistent company that's resistant to change, which is understandable given their long history of consistency.  Just wishing out loud. 

[Captain Hook]

Some of us collect dozens of SAKs because we're in search of that "Holy Grail" knife. For me I finally found it in the Troubleshooter, a discontinued model. I could carry a PST and a Micra instead, but I wanted one tool with scissors, pliers and a file that fit in my pocket. Now I feel like like I can conquer most situations that arise, I swap between the trouble shooter and my Champion. (Which will be getting some sick ruby scales soon)

[tosh]

We all know that Wenger are and will become very sought after. They were in production for over 100yrs, pure Swiss pedigree. If you own a wenger think very carefully before letting it go.

As for Victorinox...
In times gone by Vic were almost as radical as Wenger. (Almost  )
The three butanes
Sports Ratchet
Swiss Auto Tool
MP3 player

Plus more that I can’t recall.
These will probably never again be replicated. If you can source one, buy!! The prices will just keep climbing as new collectors emerge with bigger, deeper pockets.