Stag and bonestag deceitful selling practices..

[dks]

Shame...... 

https://heinnie.com/rough-rider-copperhead-cinnamon-stag-damascus/

Heinnie Haynes, a theoretically respected online shop is selling this knife claiming that it is "Stag"

If you search you will find that Rough Rider has in huge writing on the box that this is BoneStag, that is bone carved to look like Stag. You can see the carving lines on the covers,  a tell tale sign.

Now, Heinnie skillfully avoids to show clearly the box, making you, the customer, think that they are selling you a Stag cover/scale knife.

In their first picture you can see nicely hidden under the knife, that this is bonestag and not stag.

Even in the Description they say "..... the scales are made from stag which finishes off this impressive pocket knife very nicely."

They also don't say if the Damascus is carbon steel or SS, another issue in my opinion

Here is the picture.
I want to emphasise, before some blame the manufacturer that the box clearly states what this is, but the seller chooses not to do so.

[Gareth]

That's a shame.  Heinnie have a good reputation but I can't see this as being anything other than sneaky. I wondered if they were simply printing some stock information without looking at it, but it seems other sellers have gotten the details right.

[nate j]

The larger issue, in my view, is the very term “bonestag”.  Strictly speaking, there is no such material.  It is either bone, or it is stag (antler).  Carving, dyeing, torching, or otherwise treating bone to make it resemble stag doesn’t make it stag (or some hybrid or composite of the two).  It’s difficult for me to accept that the term “bonestag” is anything other than a marketing attempt to confuse unsophisticated buyers (and perhaps unsophisticated knife store employees as well).

[Aloha]

 

[dks]

Schrade USA started this trend decades ago with staglon, a synthetic material shaped to look like stag and named to sound like stag.
This must have really confused ignorant employees at the time. Even today many assume it is stag

At least bonestag is a natural product.

Still no excuse for a speSmurfpillsed dealer to call it stag.

[SteveC]

Terminology like this has been around since the early 20th century.  Many companies called jigged bone "stagged bone" or "Bone Stag" and even into the synthetic era  "Brownstag" "Stagalon" etc.

But yes HH should call it what it is .

[Essexman]

@dks - Have you emailed HH? What was their reply?

[Fuzzbucket]

@dks - Have you emailed HH? What was their reply?

That's a shame.  Heinnie have a good reputation but I can't see this as being anything other than sneaky. I wondered if they were simply printing some stock information without looking at it, but it seems other sellers have gotten the details right.

  Aye this. They told me once that's exactly what they do. I've only ever found HH to be completely honest and honorable... and not only that, but they've gone right out of their way to help me in the past sourcing spare parts etc. If it is an honest mistake, and I think it is, you should really give them a fair shake and allow them a chance to explain and make amends.

[Aloha]

Marketing is all part of the game I guess  .  Creating names for synthetic materials that are trying to be something they are not and being upfront is one thing.  Its entirely another deal to mislead with intent.  In the end its always buyers beware and educate yourselves.

I don't know anything of HH so my comments are not directed at them. 
 
 
 

[dks]

I don't have any contact with Heinies as I have never bought anything from them. I generally find cheaper prices elsewhere
I have recommended them to others in the past, based on their good reputation.

I suggest one of the UK based members, their customer base, tells them about it.

Incidentally, I do have a few Staglon and Bonestag knives, from Schrade old and new (crap) and Colt (fancier RR knives) and both materials are pretty good, so don't be scared off from buying them

[SurgeUk]

Aye this. They told me once that's exactly what they do. I've only ever found HH to be completely honest and honorable... and not only that, but they've gone right out of their way to help me in the past sourcing spare parts etc. If it is an honest mistake, and I think it is, you should really give them a fair shake and allow them a chance to explain and make amends.

They are a good bunch 

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't have any contact with Heinies as I have never bought anything from them. I generally find cheaper prices elsewhere
I have recommended them to others in the past, based on their good reputation.

I suggest one of the UK based members, their customer base, tells them about it.

Incidentally, I do have a few Staglon and Bonestag knives, from Schrade old and new (crap) and Colt (fancier RR knives) and both materials are pretty good, so don't be scared off from buying them

Nah... Your beef - you tell them.

[SurgeUk]

I don't have any contact with Heinies as I have never bought anything from them. I generally find cheaper prices elsewhere
I have recommended them to others in the past, based on their good reputation.

I suggest one of the UK based members, their customer base, tells them about it.

Incidentally, I do have a few Staglon and Bonestag knives, from Schrade old and new (crap) and Colt (fancier RR knives) and both materials are pretty good, so don't be scared off from buying them

I also agree with this.

I have bought from them numerous times. They have NEVER been less than "Honourable" and "Excellent" with customer service.

If someone reminds me I'll contact them (not tomorrow, stuff to do  ) see what is said and report back 

Peace. Out 

[Fuzzbucket]

I also agree with this.

I have bought from them numerous times. They have NEVER been less than "Honourable" and "Excellent" with customer service.

If someone reminds me I'll contact them (not tomorrow, stuff to do  ) see what is said and report back 

Peace. Out 

Well, if you really want to take that responsibility, but...



Mongo! No Mongo!

[Essexman]

I don't have any contact with Heinies as I have never bought anything from them. I generally find cheaper prices elsewhere
I have recommended them to others in the past, based on their good reputation.

I suggest one of the UK based members, their customer base, tells them about it.

Incidentally, I do have a few Staglon and Bonestag knives, from Schrade old and new (crap) and Colt (fancier RR knives) and both materials are pretty good, so don't be scared off from buying them

So after finding an issue you don't like on HH website, rather than email the company and get it problem fixed you decide the best action is to come on to  MTO and write a long post calling HH deceitful and bad mouthing them?

Not really the fair way to act is it?

[Don Pablo]

So after finding an issue you don't like on HH website, rather than email the company and get it problem fixed you decide the best action is to come on to  MTO and write a long post calling HH deceitful and bad mouthing them?

Not really the fair way to act is it?

I mean, seems fair from my perspective. dks is a multitool fan from Malta.
If I found an issue with the USA LM website, I'd be inclined to tell USA members on here and see what they think.

[dks]

So after finding an issue you don't like on HH website, rather than email the company and get it problem fixed you decide the best action is to come on to  MTO and write a long post calling HH deceitful and bad mouthing them?

Not really the fair way to act is it?

Well, I assume you have contacted them and told them about it then,Sir. I don't owe Heinnies anything, but believe that I owe MTO members a lot.

[Aloha]

I've looked at the ad and then I looked at other ads for this knife.  What I find interesting is some say in the initial description BONE STAG while other don't.  I also noticed some say STAG in the initial description then later in the detailed description say BONE STAG. 

The inconsistent descriptions could easily mislead a new or unsuspecting buyer intentionally or unintentionally.  I am not certain the vender is being intentionally deceptive  .   I am glad to know we've got members who are knowledgable and share their knowledge on such situations.  I do have to add the picture does have the knife sitting on the box that in large lettering says BONESTAG even tho the G is cut out of the picture. 

I would not want anyone to unsuspectingly buy this or any knife they thought was STAG and it was not.  Which leads me to what Nate posted.  We as knife buyers must know/teach/learn the marketing terms for materials put on traditional folders that are not BONE OR STAG but rather something else made to look like such.

I think I'll await a call to HH to see what their response is.  That being said, they can do what they want and we as buyers must educate ourselves and each other regardless of any vender or seller of items we want to buy.       

 

[Fuzzbucket]

A very sensible answer there. 

I have to say though, I have nothing but absolute praise for Heinnies. In the absolute cutlery and sharps wasteland that is the United Kingdom, they've been a shining (literally) oasis. Anyway, they've been around for years, are very well respected, and really what in anyway do they have to gain by this? Anyway, that's my two cents and I'll shut up now - it's not worth falling out over.

[dks]

OK, to help I have now sent the following message to them through their contact page:

"https://heinnie.com/rough-rider-copperhead-cinnamon-stag-damascus/

This is not Stag, it is bone. Please correct."

I hope this makes all happier

[SteveC]

I would have been happier if you had used more colorful language   

[Fuzzbucket]

Stag, Bone, same thing...







 Kidding

[Fuzzbucket]

I would have been happier if you had used more colorful language   

Deeks using the word bone is colourful enough.

[dks]

I am more mature and serious these days.
No bone related activities on weekdays

[Fuzzbucket]

 Poor wee Deeks... (sigh)...

[Ray S]

Although at first glance it seems to be a pretty nice piece of stag as regards to coloring and random shapes of the valleys,once you see the parallel lines inside the valleys it should become obvious that it is not real antler but rather very cleverly cut bone.I would like to know how they accomplished this feat.
It was correct in stating that the term,"bonestag" has been around forever(I would say at least one hundred years).As to the assertion that it was stag may or may not have been an unintentional mistake.

[Aloha]

I'm surprised pfrsantos hasn't arrived yet   

I now know what look for when I am out looking at bone cut to look like stag vs real stag.   

[dks]

Most of he confusion seems to be with composite "Stag" materials like staglon.
Some look really good, better than low end Stag and  have similar texture to Stag.

It is hard for a buyer to distinguish without damaging the scales unless you have information on the specific model.(e.g.certain Schrade models used it)

You can cut it or try to melt it (or bite it...), thus damaging it.

You can also see if your nail can catch on the material if you run it over it. If it is Stag your nail should slide over it.

Of-course,if you are buying online you can not do any of that. All you can do is ask the seller or do your research.

Some pictures of Bone carved to look like Sag.
Colt was SMKW more luxury brand and used this material a lot. The colour is not like stag but  it can be died to look like it, if needed. Case also has bone that can look like stag, again, the die will affect how real it looks

[Reinier]

dks is a multitool fan from Malta.

Are you from Malta or Cyprus, dks? Just curious

[dks]

Cy, but no problem