How to fix a 3 inch 3 blade knife that has rounded out one of the pin holes.

[Billy]

I have a 3 inch, 3 blade knife that needs repair. One of the pins became loose and enlarged the hole. Now the hole is out of round. Does anyone out there know who might be able to repair this knife. It has great sentimental value. I would think that if the hole was welded and then filed and re-drilled, this would solve the problem. Unfortunately, I do not know how to weld.
Bill Vollenweider bvoley49@gmail.com

[Myron]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to MTO.  I suggest you place your post over on the modding forum, as you may have better luck there.  Even still, most folks on MTO who have tinkered with their knives will have experience limited to Swiss Army Knives. 

You might also try blade forums and all about pocket knives, both of which are great communities as well.  I know for a fact that professional knife repairers hang out on both of them.

Good luck,

Myron

[kamakiri]

A picture of the knife would go a long way in getting some help. But better yet, the right help.

Is it even a Swiss Army Knife? Victorinox or Wenger?

If it is a Victorinox, I’d really like to see it, and may be able to help.

[Billy]

It is a Victorinox. I would love to forward a photo but I am so illiterate when it comes to this forum thing. I have never participated in a forum before and am just learning how to do things. My email is bvoley49@gmail.com if you want to communicate with me separately. If you can walk me through how to get you a photo, I can try. Bill Vollenweider

[Billy]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to MTO.  I suggest you place your post over on the modding forum, as you may have better luck there.  Even still, most folks on MTO who have tinkered with their knives will have experience limited to Swiss Army Knives. 

You might also try blade forums and all about pocket knives, both of which are great communities as well.  I know for a fact that professional knife repairers hang out on both of them.

Good luck,

Myron

Thanks Myron. I am a rookie at forums and am just learning how to post and respond. I joined Blade Forum and I think I posted a comment. I will wait and see.

[Myron]

Billy,

I will drop you a line via email and you can send me a few photos of your SAK.  I'll post them up for you and we'll see if maybe Kamakiri can help.

Myron

[Myron]

Behold!  The pictures of Billy's knife, which would appear to be a Director of some sort (admittedly, I am not an expert in the 74 mm models). 

Billy, if this were my knife I think I'd consider sending it to Victorinox for repair. 

[Aloha]

Well done Myron  . 

Welcome to the forum Billy.  I am no modder or SAK expert but our resident SAKperts will help.  All the best. 

[Masel]

Hey Billy,
is the damaged liner made from aluminum or is it steel?
If it is made from aluminum, I think it is very difficult to weld it and drill a new hole.
I think the best way is to make a new Liner out of sheet metal.
Or better, send it to Victorinox for a proper repair. I think they can also fix the broken blade.

[kamakiri]

Thanks for getting and posting the pics Myron! 

The good news, is that is fixable...pretty easily with the right parts. This looks like a ‘Windsor’ model (like an Amassador, but stainless scales) and likely from the ‘70s from what I can see.

First thing I would do is contact Victorinox to see if they’d do it. If they can, it would be your cheapest option. Might even cost you as little as just shipping. Or maybe plus a nominal fee.

Odds are that they don’t have the exact part to fix this type of scale. But best to check. They might be able and willing to fabricate the needed part. A ‘correct’ fix, I believe, would need a donor knife for both internal liners, which are anodized and made slightly undersize to fit the Stainless scale over it.

I wouldn’t try fixing or welding the existing scales. I think the material is too thin to fix that way. But I’m certainly not an expert there.

The parts *could* be fabricated from nickel silver ones. It would just take a bit of time to modify and make two that would fit. But not sure if you want the ‘correct’ replacement parts or not.

Other parts also need replacing like the nail file and scissor spring. Not sure if you want to keep all or any of those original. Easy enough to find if you want.

So again, I would contact Victorinox first.

[Billy]

I believe the liner is steel as it is attracted to a magnet. I originally sent the knife to Victorinox and they returned it saying it could not be fixed and sent me a nice new red knife. I don't think they took it apart to look at the inside. They just felt it was cheaper to send me a new one. That was very kind of them to send me a new knife but I would still like to get the old one repaired as it has sentimental value. I live in the States and my aunt lived in Switzerland and she is the one that originally gave me the knife back in the 70's. She has since passed away.

[kamakiri]

I believe the liner is steel as it is attracted to a magnet. I originally sent the knife to Victorinox and they returned it saying it could not be fixed and sent me a nice new red knife. I don't think they took it apart to look at the inside. They just felt it was cheaper to send me a new one. That was very kind of them to send me a new knife but I would still like to get the old one repaired as it has sentimental value. I live in the States and my aunt lived in Switzerland and she is the one that originally gave me the knife back in the 70's. She has since passed away.

Are you sure it’s stainless?  The (top) picture below is a modern aluminum liner, but I have no problem ‘sticking’ a magnet to it and even picking it up through the aluminum.

I don’t mean to doubt. Victorinox did use different attachment for stainless/engine turned/guilloche scales. One of my 58mm pictured (top middle) is solid stainless and hidden rivet. So I know that it’s possible yours are. But it would also surprise me that the brass (or nickel silver) pin rivet material could oval stainless like that. I would expect it to pull through or shear with little to no damage to stainless.

Bottom two pics of my Director model and the liners are clearly anodized aluminum. Center spacer is nickel silver.  And can see the factory stamped edge and anodized texture on the edges and flat sides within the knife.

[ComboTool]

Judging by the pictures I guess you could just re-peen the missing pin, leaving a little more brass than usual to fill the hole in the liner, the scales will hide this anyway.

[kamakiri]

Judging by the pictures I guess you could just re-peen the missing pin, leaving a little more brass than usual to fill the hole in the liner, the scales will hide this anyway.

That is a possible fix. Moreso with stainless than aluminum. Not that I’d want to try it that way with either material. It could be a challenge to peen while keeping the tang and backspring compressed to hold the right position.

Windsors pop up often enough that a parts donor wouldn’t be difficult to find say for $50-$60 USD. There’s a new/boxed one for sale for $100.

Were you looking to keep all the original tools?

[Myron]

But is that a broken spring sticking out past the oblong hole marked with the arrow? 

[kamakiri]

But is that a broken spring sticking out past the oblong hole marked with the arrow?

I don’t think it is broken. That’s what I’d expect it to do with that pin out. That spring ‘floats’, but is keyed to the spring on the other side.

[Myron]

Thanks Kamakiri.  The two-sided SAKs with "internal" springs are a mystery to me....

[Billy]

No the spring is not broken. You are right it is out because I the removed the pin. Yes, I would like to keep the original tools. I don't mind replacing the side with the out-of-round hole if I have to.
I don't mind sending it to Kamakiri for analysis and/or repair.
Bill Vollenweider
Grosse Ile, Michigan
bvoley49@gmail.com

[kamakiri]

Hi Bill, I do appreciate the vote of confidence, but I’m thinking I should decline. I think the material does appear to be stainless and that you’d be better off with someone who can fix and keep your original liners.

The more I thought about trying to hold a rivet in the oval hole or even possibly cutting it to a larger round seat, the more I felt that I’m not the right person to perform the repair.

I suggest making another post in the mod forum and to look for a modder who can weld stainless and close the hole back to 2mm. And the other side, if needed. As it also looks slightly out of round from what I can see through the big hole.

I hope that makes sense, and I wish you the best of luck with the repair.

[Reinier]

Thanks Kamakiri.  The two-sided SAKs with "internal" springs are a mystery to me....

[Billy]

Thanks Kamakiri. You have been very helpful. I think I will try to find a used Windsor and just replace the liner on one side. Where can I get new pins and what kind of metal are they?

Also, do I just flatten them with a hammer when I replace the pins?

[SAKTaschenmesser]

Thanks Kamakiri. You have been very helpful. I think I will try to find a used Windsor and just replace the liner on one side. Where can I get new pins and what kind of metal are they?

Also, do I just flatten them with a hammer when I replace the pins?

Kamakiri mentioned above that the Windsor and Ambassador are similar - different scales.

From a quick look on EBay, it looks like Windsors are relatively rare and valuable whilst Ambassadors are plentiful and cheaper. If you are looking for a knife to donate a liner and blade then maybe consider buying an Ambassador.

From reading the previous posts, I’m assuming that the pins and pivots are 2mm brass rod, (1/16” in USA?), which is readily available.

Perhaps, assemble the materials and then ask for the help of a forum modder. Taking Swiss Army Knives apart and reassembling them is not hard if you have a reasonable set of tools or work in a skilled or craft profession. For the amateur DIYer, It does take a bit of practice though, mistakes are made as technique is developed and so starting on a precious knife might not be the best idea if you aren’t confident.


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[Reinier]

Kamakiri mentioned above that the Windsor and Ambassador are similar - different scales.

From a quick look on EBay, it looks like Windsors are relatively rare and valuable whilst Ambassadors are plentiful and cheaper. If you are looking for a knife to donate a liner and blade then maybe consider buying an Ambassador.

Ambassadors have the "regular" liners which are as wide as the scales. Windsor liners are slightly undersized to accept the stainless steel scales, like kamakiri said.
So basically a Windsor, Director or Prince is needed. Unfortunately I don't have one that is suitable (all mine are mint) but I will keep an eye out for one.

I also still doubt the damaged liner is stainless

And Billy, you might want to remove your personal information like your phone number

[Cauldronborn]

This might be a stupid question but would it be simpler to cut out a replacement liner from some sheet metal? I don't know what tools or skills you have Billy but I think it could be practical to use just hand tools for such a small piece.

[Reinier]

True. But he would also still need some brass pin stock and possibly some replacement tools as well.

[kamakiri]

Thanks Kamakiri. You have been very helpful. I think I will try to find a used Windsor and just replace the liner on one side. Where can I get new pins and what kind of metal are they?

Also, do I just flatten them with a hammer when I replace the pins?

Your pins look like brass. Nickel silver is possible, but usually doesn’t turn that dark like in your pics. 74mm knives should be pinned with 2.0mm rod or ‘round stock’. I’ve gotten it from knife supply stores like Jantz and Texas and *bay.

Both Windsors and Directors would have the right size liner replacements. So I would look for either. Other liners won’t fit (too big) as Reinier pointed out above. It would also be possible to re-use the pins from a Director, if removed carefully and not drilled too far when they are removed.

Hammering the ends of the pins is essentially all thats needed. A small ball pein hammer would be best, IMO, but any hammer can work used carefully.

If you have concerns about doing the work yourself after you have the donor knife, we can discuss further.

True. But he would also still need some brass pin stock and possibly some replacement tools as well.

My understanding is that Bill wants to keep all the original tools.

[kamakiri]

This might be a stupid question but would it be simpler to cut out a replacement liner from some sheet metal? I don't know what tools or skills you have Billy but I think it could be practical to use just hand tools for such a small piece.

Yes, but also not that easy (for me) if the original is stainless. And not quite correct if it’s anodized aluminum like mine. These are the main reasons why I wouldn’t want to accept the restoration work. Too many unknowns and variables for my comfort.

An undersize nickel silver one from a donor wouldn’t be that difficult either, but certainly not the original material and might be a bit thin for a flush peen rivet head.

[Aloha]

I'm following this with excitement.  Billy, I do hope you get your knife sorted out.  Please keep us informed as I would love to see this project completed.  Its exciting to know the repairs are do-able and you can get your knife in good orders.  Stories of sentimental knives are ones that I enjoy very much. 

[kamakiri]

Stories of sentimental knives are ones that I enjoy very much.

  With all of that, but especially the last part. 

[Aloha]

I must also mention that I truly enjoy you and others who joined in.  Thank you very much.  While its not my knife it makes me very happy to know someone sentimental knife has rallied you all, those who can point him in the right direction. 

Its threads like this that may not get quite as much traffic but IMO these are the threads that are the spirit of MTO. 

I have a Celidor Prince/Cavalier Billy could use to scavenge pins and liners if it would work? 

Here it is my post #37051.    https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,42565.msg1946212.html#msg1946212