Thank you very much for sharing your extensive knowledge and information with us here I think these should be sticky threads
One of the more glaring pieces of evidence, and perhaps the line of thinking that I should have started with considers the actual issue date of the ‘1985’ pdf catalog. It does seem pretty clear that both ‘80s-A and B predate this one. But right in its introduction, it hints at the exact date of 1981. See attached annotated picture.
Very interesting subject. For a long time I thought that catalogs can help date knives. But after a while, I dont think that they really help a lot. As an example: if you have a catalog dated 1934. The only thing you can say about the content knives, that the beginning of the production of a specific model in the catalog could not be after 1934. You can not say that in 1934 that model was still in production, and you can not say that the picture of the knife shown in the catalog was taken in 1934 from a knife produced in that year. But also I have seen knives in catalogs that were never in production, just shown in a catalog. So sometimes, Victorinox also showed some knives that they wanted to produce, but never did. And as you mentioned, a catalog was there sometimes for a time period of around 10 years. I have seen catalogs with hand written notes were some knives were just crossed or some options crossed, and other new options mentioned. Also victorinox always produced stocks of knives, like they do also today. So for some less common knives, victorinox did just one production session for some days, produced the whole amount for the next years. So production time is no the same like selling time. Also in the catalogs are some errors, like the picknicker knife without the saw, or the 90 mm officer knives, that were always 91 mm, and so on.
And Im also not sure about those 90 or 100 years of procution from the advertising. One time, you take the year 1884, the other time 1891. When its written "90 years of craftsmanship", why not take the year 1884? Would make more sense. Also, Karl Elsener was a knifemaker before 1884. So you could also easily take the year 1880 as a start of his career as a knifemaker, so 1970 would also mean 90 yeares of knowledge of knifemaking.
I think the best way to specifiy the dates of the knifes in production is to create a table were everybody can put in their thoughts and evidences, advertising knives with dates, catalogs, other sources, for every tool or change in process. One table for "Canopener", one table for "Corkscrew", then for all the different sizes. There I see the best way to narrow the dates were knives were produced.
For a long time I thought that catalogs can help date knives. But after a while, I dont think that they really help a lot.
In the hope to clarify what I believe is an error, I don't think the LNF versions like the 244k were ever Golfers.I believe the Original Golfer is based off the 136ka Craftsman, but with horn scales. First listed that I know of in the 26 Model Catalog (which I believe is mid-late '60s) My guess is that it was directly succeeded c. '73 with the 0.3102 version and followed by the 0.1602 in the late '70s.
I thought proof for earlier use of the combo tool would come from a Golfer, but I’ve found it here on a Waiter. Early style combo tool on a knife with a shield from c. ‘78-‘79. My work studying the shield style is confirmed somewhat by the change in several other knives on the Wood Saw tip, and the tweezer tip change from Aluminum to Plastic, and from the density of Hoffritz stainless inlay knives of this period. It all ties together neatly. The other thing I didn’t mention previously is the ‘thematic’ change and the use of the deeper green color. It shows up in the green flocked presentation box liners. I find many knives that date in the ‘77-‘78 range in those boxes.
Hello kamakiri,some months ago I bought this bantam together with another vic. Then I did some research because the scales did not match the stamp. But what confused me even more was the combotool, because everywhere I read that it was introduced about 82-86. According to sakhome.com this stamp (ESSR/empty) exists since 1973.Maybe you can bring some clarity into the age of the knife. And maybe it helps you to find the age of the combotool in general.Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
I'm curious. What kind of tool is this? It doesn't look like a bottle opener @kamakiri
Because it’s not a bottle opener! It’s just a ‘crab claw’ can opener. I probably should have used or taken another pic of the actual Original Golfer next to it. But this one was taken recently for something else, so I used it here.
If you can provide detailed pictures, I will be more grateful
My apologies, but my policy is not to post hi-res pics of ‘valuable’ knives that could be used for fake auctions and such. And this knife in particular is one that I will not handle unnecessarily or open multiple tools for display purposes.
Because the one you posted now is even older. The crab claw opener was produced only a few years. 1940s? Kamakiri knows exacly when