Is a 58mm enough?

[SteveP]

But isn't that the appeal for the masses?

Once you disregard the cult worship enthusiasts, no matter if its cars, guns, knives, the great unwashed masses out there doesn't care about the latest wonder steel or blink of an eye one hand opening. The just need a little piece of sharp, or some car that gets them to work in a reliable manner, or just a gun that doesn't take a tactical wonder to operate. The little SAK classic is there in the case or hanging there on the rack for all of 11.95 at Walmart or 16.95 at Academy Sports, and its small enough to hang on a keyring and be no bother at all.

Our friend Roy is a typical SAK classic users. Roy was a techno geek for the government in Washington D.C. and lived in Olney, Maryland. Everyday he commented down to the department of something or other in his little Honda Civic. He's had three Honda civics since his first one in the late 1970's. He runs them for 20 years and 200,000 some miles. Needless to say, Roy is NOT a car enthusiast. To him, its just a tool to get to work or where ever in a reliable manner. He's a die hard Honda fan because his first Honda, a tiny 600 coupe, was just soooo damm good. A car to Jim is like a microwave oven or washing machine. Something to use until it works no more than replace it.

Roy carries a classic. He's not a knife nut, but he knows its nice to have a small sharp tool to open mail, UPS packages, plastic blister packages, and be able to fix a broken fingernail or unscrew small Phillips screws. He's not a hunter, not a camper, but a dyed in the wool city guy who when he's not at work is fixing or messing with computers. Electronics is both his work and play. If Roy is flying someplace and forgets to take his classic off his key ring and TSA takes it, he just shrugs it off and buys another at Walmart.

Roy will never buy a larger SAK, or even try a Leatherman tool. The little classic fits his low cost semi disposable role of a package opener/nail maintenance/scissors/ tweezer tool. As long as it opens his mail, Roy doesn't care if theres bigger or better options. Just like he doesn't care if theres bigger or better cars than his Honda Civic. They are all just tools to him. No matter if theres Case knives, Buck knives, or any other brand knife on display, Roy will buy the small low cost classic because its the lowest common denominator that will do what he wants from the tool.

That is the great masses that just need a small cheap knife for the pocket/keyring/purse/desk top. To them, we are the nutso, obsessed, cult worship people that spend way to much time and money on knives.

I think you've got it right.

Just add in the many Classics bought not because the buyer needed or wanted a knife, but because he/she was attracted to the tourist souvenir scales or the otherwise cutesy scales (puppies, doughnuts, soccer ball - you name it, there's probably Classic scales with it).

[cbl51]

I think you've got it right.

Just add in the many Classics bought not because the buyer needed or wanted a knife, but because he/she was attracted to the tourist souvenir scales or the otherwise cutesy scales (puppies, doughnuts, soccer ball - you name it, there's probably Classic scales with it).

One more factor to blend into the thing; the vast number of advertising classics given away to clients. Banks, hardware companies, tire brands, drug companies, political slogans, car companies, tool brands, real estate companies, and so on.

Lots of advertising classics have been the first Victorinox owned by lots of people unfamiliar with the brand.

[Aloha]

It's the gateway SAK 

[Barry Rowland]

 

[Farmer X]

Lots of advertising classics have been the first Victorinox owned by lots of people unfamiliar with the brand.

I don't doubt that at all. They make for a great introduction to the SAK world. However, I'd been carrying SAKs for almost 20 years before I got my first Classic SD.

[Barry Rowland]

I guess the Classic is the VW Beetle of the knife world!  It fills a role for almost everyone, from non knife enthusiast to collector. 

[Farmer X]

  Its ubiquity also qualifies it as the VW Beetle of the knife world.

[austin83]

Not for me, but I’ve got one paired with every set of keys, and with every bag that I might use.  My EDC doesn’t always have a pair of scissors, but I always have a Classic within reach. 

[Aloha]

  The 58 is perfect in that scenario. 

[cody6268]

When do you have enough Classics?

Counting relatives like the Companion, Bijou, and Signature, I know I have over a dozen now, with various ads, color's people's names (including a "Homer" version I displayed with Hot Wheels versions of Homer's pink car and "The Homer"), and of course, plain old red.

These are everywhere now. A Signature, Classic SD in purple, and a silver Alox Classic SD are in drawers. Some older versions (like my horn Bijou and a Hanover, Germany tourist knife) are in display cases, and the rest are all over the place--drawers, vehicles, sewing kits, you name it.

[Farmer X]

When do you have enough Classics?

If you're a logo collector...never. I have quite a few Classic SDs, and one Classic, and I'm usually on the lookout for more.

[Aloha]

 

Sewing kits.

[fuyume]

I just don't really understand why the Classic is the one that is the biggest seller, when the Rambler (tweezer/toothpick)/Manager (tweezer/pen)/Midnite Manager (pen/light) is so much better, just because of the addition of the caplifter/combo tool. On every SAK or multitool I've ever owned in the my life, the most used tools are the scissors, the screwdrivers, the caplifter, and a blade.

[fuyume]

+1

I started with a Rambler, gifted by an MTo member. I upgraded it to a Midnite Manager (LED + pen). It's been my usual EDC. It solves (awlmost) any problem I come across.

 

I actually started my 58 mm journey with a Midnight Minichamp II (the old one with the red LED). I decided I preferred to have the toothpick and tweezers to the LED and pen, and that I had really no use for half the tools on the MiniChamp, so I "downgraded" to a Rambler, and never looked back. I don't consider the LED or pen to ever be enough, so I am always carrying a proper flashlight (currently a Nitecore EC11), and a gold titanium nitride plated Fisher Bullet Space Pen as my emergency backup pen (my EDC pens are TWSBI ECO fountain pens).

OTOH, I've finally decided that the tweezers are superfluous, because I also always carry a pair of proper tweezers (Tweezerman Slant, the best bar none), and because with a knife I can almost always improvise a toothpick, I'm hoping to replace my Rambler with an Alox Rambler, if they ever make one as a regular production model.

But the only difference between the Rambler, Manager, and Midnite Manager is which scale tools: tweezer/toothpick, tweezer/pen, or LED/pen, respectively.

(add: I was just thinking how cool it would be if TWSBI came out with a version of the ECO in Swiss Army Red. They already have a black one. They did do a "Transparent Blossom Red" color, but IDK if it matches the Victorinox transparent ruby.)

[Tasky]

I just don't really understand why the Classic is the one that is the biggest seller, when the Rambler (tweezer/toothpick)/Manager (tweezer/pen)/Midnite Manager (pen/light) is so much better, just because of the addition of the caplifter/combo tool. On every SAK or multitool I've ever owned in the my life, the most used tools are the scissors, the screwdrivers, the caplifter, and a blade.

Me neither. For the past 40 years any time I've seen someone with a Swiss Army knife, it's always been the Hunter/Climber sort of level, if not larger. Might just be me and the sociao-economic circles in which I move...
I even bought an SD myself, but still don't see the wide appeal.

Either way, there are several reasons, some stated above... basically, it's a SAK for the Muggles.
It's been around since the 1930s and presumably sales start counting from there. It's also a cheap gift and fairly safe bet if you know someone who'd like a SAK of some kind, but are unsure which one... and it's also both easily lost/broken/confiscated and cheaply replaced, so presumably has high sales volumes as a result of that.

[Andetto]

I just don't really understand why the Classic is the one that is the biggest seller, when the Rambler (tweezer/toothpick)/Manager (tweezer/pen)/Midnite Manager (pen/light) is so much better, just because of the addition of the caplifter/combo tool. On every SAK or multitool I've ever owned in the my life, the most used tools are the scissors, the screwdrivers, the caplifter, and a blade.

As you have said, there is no big difference in dimensions and weight between those models and the classic, and they exceed it in functionality.
That leads me to think about:

1- Price: Most companies, that wants to advertise, will want to buy hundreds/thousands of a relatively cheaper swiss product.

2- Name: The classic was first in production, and had already sold millions before the rambler/manager. People, who dont know a lot about a certain product, tend to buy items with the most positive feedback, most sold, most produced,.....

IMO, no other knife will beat the classic for that title.

Cheers

[Notyetold]

Availability drives sales. I know that there are Victorinox   Swiss Army Knife stores, but I have never seen one outside of a vacation trip to London. Around here, the only place that I have seen SAK's is in Walmart, Target, and a couple of other big box stores, and they tend to only carry the Classic and Tinker models.

[Joe Thoms]

The Rambler is my basic EDC.  I carry one daily and it’s all I need about 99% of the time.  If it’s insufficient, I add a Waiter with straight pin and mini screwdriver added.  These two are a perfect combination

[Barry Rowland]

Excellent!  I like the Rambler and its combination tool.  Welcome to MTO!

[cbl51]

Wow, this thread is still alive!!!

It's been a few years now since I took part in this thread, and it's been an interesting time.

YES, the 58mm is enough for most people living in an urban environment. I've completed my turning away from the whole knife/gun/toys collection and accumulation thing now. Since August of 2022, the 58mm has been my go to pocket knife. I used to slip an alox bantam in my wallet, but the wallet thing has been downsized now as well. I go about my retired life here in Georgetown Texas with my trusty classic in its keyring leather pouch, and it handles all I need in day to day life. If I know I'm going hiking or woods waling, or fishing, I'll have something else along like my old Buck 102. But that's the 'special occasion thing. Getting up in the morning and pulling on pants, I go with my minimal gear. Over the past two and a half years, I've survived all my activities plus car trips to Maryland and California with no need of anything else. My old Wenger SI gets packed along in the suitcase on trips, but is very very rarely ever used.

Since turning my back on the knife thing, I now understand how most people get along with no knife in their pocket at all. In modern urban/suburban life, there is just no strong need for much knife/tool. I think if I had not spent all those years with a Case Peanut as my sole everyday carry, it may not have worked, but a lot of it is staying away from forums and knife magazines that would have me packing stuff  like a Hollywood action movie character.

My 58mm opens all kinds of packages including those plastic blister ones, opens my mail, Amazon boxes, breaks down boxes for recycle bin, and slices a bit of cheddar of the hunk of Tillimook in the fridge. It cuts fishing line, trims duct tape repairs, and the black electrical tape. A 58 works just fine.

[powernoodle]

       

[Barry Rowland]

  too!

[powernoodle]

I still carry other toys, like a folder, a larger SAK and sometimes an MT, but its more of a fun and what if kind of thing than an actual need.

 

[Barry Rowland]

  Me too.  I live in the country and it's nice to have those pliers, but I think I would get a long famously with my handy mighty Minichamp.  I use a blade most of the time and those 58's are as sharp as they get.

[gustophersmob]

I like the 58mm size, and have an alox classic on all my key rings.

That being said, it’s primarily used for the scissors and file.  It is primarily a grooming tool for me. Occasionally the screw driver gets some use for hard to reach Philips screws.

The blade I almost never use. It’s not so much its size, but more the ergonomics of using it. For opening an envelope or cutting packing tape on a box, it’s fine. But to do anything that requires more force, like opening a blister package, I cannot find a comfortable (or really even a safe) way to use it. I always feel like it’s in the verge of turning sideways in my hand, or I can’t hold it right to choke up on the blade for a controlled cut. I can see where a different shaped small knife, like a peanut, would be superior in that regard. 

On my main carry knife, the pioneer, depending on the task, I am unlikely to use more length than the classic’s blade. I’m usually either using near the tip, or close to the tang. But it’s so much easier to hold and control for me.

[stuntzombie]

I think I could easily get along fine with a 58mm SAK outside of work. I don't often need much blade (or handle) at home or out and about. And to be honest, sometimes it's nice having something that doesn't have a lot of bulk in the pocket.

Reading how gustophersmob doesn't like to use the 58mm knives to open blister packs, and it's funny because that is actually my preferred knife for opening those kinds of packages. With the way I hold it, I can't say that it ever feels like it's going to twist or come out of my hand. I find it easier to control than larger blade models, and there's less worry damaging whatever I'm trying to free from its plastic prison. But, to each their own. Different things work for different people.

[gustophersmob]

Yeah, it could very well be me and how I use it that is at fault.

But I’ve never had an issue using the small blade back in the day when I carried a tinker or recruit.  In fact, I preferred the small blade over the large most of the time. But the handle is much more ergonomic.

On my pioneer I often use the awl as a substitute for a small blade.

[ElevenBlade]

unfortunately it doesn't really suit me, if I'm honest.  The length isnt the problem, its the backspring and the narrowness.  At least with the Classic SD there just isn't enough utility in it for me.  With something like a MiniChamp, I'm quite sure I can find more uses for the tool (as I have with the Micra) but at the moment I can't justify getting one because the Micra is doing well for me. 

[Serena]

Went with the Minichamp Alox for years…
Bought Midnite Minichamp today. Extra options!!!
I do have bigger knives, I carry a Cybertool in my bag for when I need to do some smart home stuff. But almost everything is always taken care off by the Minichamp.

[marlowe221]

I really like the 58mm SAKs - my Rambler is always in my pocket.

But if there’s anything about them I don’t like… it’s actually the blade. Im not exactly sure what it is - maybe it’s the tiny size, maybe it’s the shape, maybe it’s how hard it is to freehand sharpen a blade that size.

Personally, when I need a small blade, I much prefer the small blade on a 91mm or 84mm SAK, which I find to be just as useful in almost any situation I might also use the blade on a 58mm.